Seriously starting to dislike the i3-please skip if disagree

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, most markets for most cars package things in groups. This is by no means unique to BMW, and also includes many things on the domestic vehicles as well. Long gone are the line item choices of options, at least in the USA. I don't like it, but it is what it is. Given the JIT computer driven supply lines, it would seem easy, but then consider that the supply line is long, and supporting it can become problematic.

One thing that does give you a bit more flexibility is if you are ordering a vehicle to be built to your specifications...at least on some items, you can order certain things. The dealer CANNOT order these for 'stock', but can, if the vehicle is already sold. I was able to do that on my GT where I only wanted the Comfort Access, and not the other things in the normal package. AT least at that time, by special ordering it, I was able to do that. I really didn't want the panoramic sunroof (a 1700 Euro option in Germany) for the additional headroom, but there are limits...that was not one of the offered choices. Not all dealers are up on this 'feature', if it still exists...they'd rather sell you a car in inventory, or trade with another dealer to get you what you want, but those cars are all limited to the package scheme.

 

[epirali]

FWIW, most markets for most cars package things in groups. This is by no means unique to BMW, and also includes many things on the domestic vehicles as well. Long gone are the line item choices of options, at least in the USA. I don't like it, but it is what it is. Given the JIT computer driven supply lines, it would seem easy, but then consider that the supply line is long, and supporting it can become problematic.

One thing that does give you a bit more flexibility is if you are ordering a vehicle to be built to your specifications...at least on some items, you can order certain things. The dealer CANNOT order these for 'stock', but can, if the vehicle is already sold. I was able to do that on my GT where I only wanted the Comfort Access, and not the other things in the normal package. AT least at that time, by special ordering it, I was able to do that. I really didn't want the panoramic sunroof (a 1700 Euro option in Germany) for the additional headroom, but there are limits...that was not one of the offered choices. Not all dealers are up on this 'feature', if it still exists...they'd rather sell you a car in inventory, or trade with another dealer to get you what you want, but those cars are all limited to the package scheme.

True to a point, but I have never before seen options tied to interior color/trim level. Options are grouped by sensical or sometimes arbitrary packaging, but never before by color of interior.

Have you ever seen that in any car but the i3?

 

[spinball]

Check out the Honda Accord. Very limiting options. Actually most of the manufacturers are very limiting in my opinion. Try finding a car with heated seats that's NOT leather. Almost impossible other than the i3 and Subaru!

I think it's more that the i3 interior choices use very unusual colors and materials so some will more strongly object.

 

[janner]

True to a point, but I have never before seen options tied to interior color/trim level. Options are grouped by sensical or sometimes arbitrary packaging, but never before by color of interior.

Have you ever seen that in any car but the i3?


Certainly also true of Mercedes in the UK and of BMW ICE cars.

 

[alohart]

I wonder whether the cost of the Giga World and Tera World packages is less than the sum of the options that these packages include. I.e., are we saving money on the packages assuming that we would order all of their included options?

Still, I would not have ordered all of the options included in the Giga World package had I had a choice, but I really didn't want to pay for heated seats, a REx, or DCFC in Honolulu, or the H-K sound system. I was unable to find an i3 in stock locally or available from the West Coast without any of these options and that included the Tech and Parking Assist packages that I wanted, so I ended up buying an i3 BEV Giga World with DCFC (will never be needed on our small island) in my least favorite color, Arravani ("Battleship") gray. So I would have preferred to special order ala carte (not possible in the U.S.) if the lead times weren't so great.

 

[jadnashuanh]

GO to the website of one of the countries that lets you do that - Germany, and price it out. In most cases, you are getting a deal with the package, at least if you wanted all of the parts!

It's been decades since most car companies let you order line item by line item. SOme offer more individual options than others, but most rely on packaging.

 

[epirali]

GO to the website of one of the countries that lets you do that - Germany, and price it out. In most cases, you are getting a deal with the package, at least if you wanted all of the parts!

It's been decades since most car companies let you order line item by line item. SOme offer more individual options than others, but most rely on packaging.

That is correct, but I'll go back to the fact that most Audi packages make SENSE. Like "technology" or "premium." So I pick premium, black interior is another option. It isn't "with black you get keyless entry, but with white you get seat heat."

 

[I33t]

Yep, that's a valid complaint of the option packaging in the US.

It's a pre-purchase complaint though. If this is such a serious deal for you, you should have walked away.

If I were of this mind and still wanted the car, I would have bought the version with CA and organised an upholstery swap with another buyer who wanted the light upholstery. If that didn't work out, then off to the upholstery shop.

 

[epirali]

As I said at the start, this was an impulse switch from Leaf to i3. I am not too hung up on getting it perfect, and it is a lease. It is a commuter car. Yes I researched and knew all this before. But the number of not well thought of ideas put together just got to me. I knew most of them before, and thought I was ok with the decision. Its not any one item. But having a frunk button and no trunk button is just plain stupid (I'm sorry but it is). Why do I want to open easily the area only useful for charger and spare tire MORE than I want to open the trunk? Why does a technology car have a bug during preconditioning about range display? I mean I am trusting the software for adaptive cruise control and parking, but basic range reporting is not well tested.

So despite the repeated comments that "you should know better" I respectfully disagree. Bad choices are bad choices, they can't be blamed on the customer and waived away by "well put up or shut up." The unique element on this car is the Rex and there are no alternatives. The things that are wrong are just bad decision making, not bad engineering.

And what I will offer is this: the i3 is not a success. I have no hard facts accept that there are lots of 2014s still on the lots, that BMW has reduced production and switched more of the line to the i8 (I am assuming they had projections that were not met).

Why? I am sure some of it is basic resistance to BEVs and the range issue. But the i3 w/Rex is PERFECT answer to that problem. My wife would not take the Leaf and takes the i3 a lot because she doesn't worry about taking extra side trips.

I think some of it (guess here) is the mixed design/messaging of the car. Is is sporty? Is doesn't look like it, it is closer to a baby SUV. So if its an SUV why is the drive so "sporty" to the point of having to work at it? Do you really think my wife will accept the fact that she has to press the trunk release button EVERY time where every other can she has unlocks or has a FOB button? I know if she was getting this car for herself (and she likes it a lot more than I do) that would be a deal breaker. So what was the reasoning behind that? I know I can code the key to open the trunk instead and I will, but my wife won't do that. But she would walk away from the car.

She took one look at the other color interiors and basically was horrified. So how do I explain to her that she just should "accept" that basic features are now missing because BMW said so? You think this will make her a convert to the BMW products?

So honestly if you love the car the mantra of "you didn't do research" or "just live with it" may sound good, but little things make or break a car imho. I would go the other way. I would turn this towards feedback to the company, rather than rejecting the outsider view.

 

[spinball]

I understand (and find interesting) your point of view on the car, but can't you find issues like this on ANY car?

I mean I already pointed out how our Accord doesn't have any way to unlock the trunk except with the footwell release which seems to really bother you on your i3 without Comfort Access. Also the valves in the I4 are super noisy when the engine is cold, and even too noisy for me when it's warm. You can't get heated seats on it without leather (my wife prefers cloth). The steering wheel often blocks the speedometer. It has no traction control at all even though it's a 2006. The trunk struts intrude on trunk space and the pass through is a weird and limiting triangle shape.

...Yet Honda sells like 300,000 of them a year.

Also I wouldn't call the REx perfect until it's coded with range hold and a proper 2.4 gal tank. You're right though there doesn't seem to be any other competition though the Volt is pretty close IMO. Just couldn't get past the touch sensitive interior controls.

 

[epirali]

You are correct, all cars have issues. Some are minor, some are disqualifies.

I guess two things really colored my disappointment: first the Rex as it SHOULD have been without crippling is really a great engineering balance. I don't like the volt solution, but I really like the i3 one. Mainly BEV 90% of the time, get me there with gas 10% of the time. The volt battery is just too limited. So I really liked the idea of the i3.

Which probably got set up by the second: the i8 is a set of near perfect decisions. The engineering, the use of battery and gas engine, the ride, the suspension, the steering is so near perfect it made me assume the i3 was just as much of a product of care in detail. I honestly can't find things to point to that can't be easily explained (unlike the i3). They left so much out but it was for a greater cause.

So my expectations were high. I am not a BMW customer. Nothing against the company but their cars have not appeared to me. Until the i8. And I extended that admiration to the i3.

And really I don't think the i3 should be measured by the same bar as the other cars you mentioned. If the I stands for innovation (which in the i8 boy does it) then the bar should be higher. And yet the bad decisions are so uncalled for.

 

[cove3]

The 2016 Volt has a 50 mile range, which to me makes it more of a bev than a phev. It's just that it''s REX is 1.8L and therefore qualifies as a true road car. If a person could only have 1 car, most would rarely use the gas engine as the average trip is under 50 miles.

Ron

 

[spinball]

Fair enough.

I do wish I could have some time in an i8.

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, my goal on the i3 was to not put short distance miles on my ICE, to not have to deal with a muffler, filling the gas tank, spark plugs, cooling system, etc. The BEV fits my needs, it obviously won't for some people , but the lower costs, faster takeoff, better mileage works for me. Having comfort access on my other car, I didn't want to live without it. Personally, I like the Giga interior, but it is obviously a personal choice. Packaging is a complex issue. If you had 50 individual choices for the dealer to make on how to order the car, what is the likelihood he'd have one exactly as someone coming in the front door wanted? Not very likely. Something would be missing, something would be there they didn't want, and if they had to order one, the wait time may just mean they miss the sale. So, packaging is with us.

I have comfort access, but since the car normally only unlocks the driver's door when you stop, if you hit the unlock button, can you then open the hatch without using the button by the door? If I set my fob aside so it is outside of the range of the sensor, once I've hit the unlock button, I can open any door or the rear hatch. I would expect it is the same with the model you have without comfort access. This isn't any different than most cars; it must be unlocked to open the doors or the trunk, assuming it has a release at all. The idrive options generally only unlock the driver's door...try pressing the unlock button on the door (or the fob), and see if you can open the hatch. There is a slight delay between pressing the button before the mechanism releases...IOW, it's electronic, not a direct mechanical connection.

The frunk does not have an external manual release button, so it makes some sense to have that on the fob.

 

[I33t]

She took one look at the other color interiors and basically was horrified. So how do I explain to her that she just should "accept" that basic features are now missing because BMW said so? You think this will make her a convert to the BMW products?

How you explain it is to show her the convenience of comfort access and the lack of convenience without it before you sign the contract. Then look at the interiors again. If she still can't stand the interior of the cars with CA, then just walk away or if you are still hell bent on buying a car so you can hate it, buy it anyway and spend hours complaining about it on the internets.

 

[psquare]

This has to be one of the most non-sensical threads we've ever had on here.

"Hey, I'm unhappy with my car. But then, I didn't do the research beforehand. Here are 13 points that irritate me. Do you feel the same? If not, please skip the thread, because I don't want to hear from you. Please don't criticise me for not looking into the car properly before I purchased it, because this really ought to be feedback for the manufacturer."

:-(

 

[epirali]

This has to be one of the most non-sensical threads we've ever had on here.

"Hey, I'm unhappy with my car. But then, I didn't do the research beforehand. Here are 13 points that irritate me. Do you feel the same? If not, please skip the thread, because I don't want to hear from you. Please don't criticise me for not looking into the car properly before I purchased it, because this really ought to be feedback for the manufacturer."

:-(

I understand that is your opinion, but I think you missed the entire point of the thread. I'll try to be make is as simple as possible:

A good idea for a car is highly compromised by VERY BAD decision making by BMW. How is this non sensical or unclear to you?

Why do some people simply choose to not understand this idea: you can look into the information, make a decision, yet when actually experience the car the totality of it falls short because of the compromises? And honestly because of you offensive post I will say this: I guarantee you I have WAY more experience with cars, and specially BEV and variant than vast majority of i3 owners. So please stop the bs about "not looking into the car," I understand its system better than most. I appreciate the Leaf for what it is, I appreciate the Tesla Roadster for what it is, and I highly appreciate the i8 for what it is. They are all different, all have compromises and all succeed in what they are doing. The i3 DOES NOT. The Tesla Model S is fine, but highly overpriced. It is a $50K car priced at $80K. So it doesn't fail, it just is not worth the price.

Seriously, don't agree, don't read the thread. If its non-sensical go read all the sensical ones who praise and worship the car. But please don't just try to dismiss valid points because you don't like it. If you are comfortable with your purchase decision more power to you. But it sounds more like some people don't want to have anything pointed out to them that MAY somehow question their decision.

 

[epirali]

She took one look at the other color interiors and basically was horrified. So how do I explain to her that she just should "accept" that basic features are now missing because BMW said so? You think this will make her a convert to the BMW products?

How you explain it is to show her the convenience of comfort access and the lack of convenience without it before you sign the contract. Then look at the interiors again. If she still can't stand the interior of the cars with CA, then just walk away or if you are still hell bent on buying a car so you can hate it, buy it anyway and spend hours complaining about it on the internets.

Wow, you just choose to ignore what I say, so ok. You are right, I am just complaining. So please stop reading. Why waste your time any more?

 

[janner]

1) Bouncy ride, yet NOT sporty (worse of all combinations), rather unpleasant even on good roads. Wobbles both side to side and jumps from minor road features (I have tried both over and under inflating the tires, neither helped),
2) Steering is WAY too responsive, this is NOT a sports car!
3) Accelerator pedal pretty much dumps all the power in the first 20% to "pretend" its faster than it should be, combined with way too aggressive a regen,
4) Rear hatch DOES NOT unlock and I have to use the key or press the button EVERY time,
5) Wind noise is very loud over 55 mph, defeats the nice serenity of electric cars,
6) Today I discovered the rain sensor wiper is just insane, it was running slow at high sensitivity when I was driving fast, then when i went slowly it started to wipe FASTER for the same rain interval,
7) Can not believe the car doesn't have keyless entry and homelink standard. For a $25K car I'd have no issue, but for a $53K MSRP car?
8) Marginal audio system,
9) Pretty limited BEV range (really have never gotten more than 70 miles even with careful driving),
10) The remote app range estimation is just garbage. I charged the car last night and at 2am it stated 70 mile range/100%, then this morning before I left it was reporting 93 miles/100% range (and I have seen it jump around on a stationary car). The car itself was reporting 67 miles guess. Seriously?
11) No seat memory for multiple users, again I get it if the car is $25K, but at $53K?
12) When I was parked this morning I noticed the front park sensors kept seeing/not seeing a close obstacle (every second or so the "red area" and the entire section would turn off, then back on again).
13) No percentage of charge left, or ability to hold charge with Rex (yes I know I can "fix" this but I should not have to).

I don't have the same problems as you seem to have with points 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 12, or 13. 7 is an option so isn't really a problem and why waste weight on 11 - I had seat memory on my last two cars and it got used once.

Your point 9 may well be that you haven't yet adapted to the i3's driving style. Your 70 miles equates to 3.7 miles per kWhr, my average is 4.4 mi/kWhr (83 miles average) - some others do better than this.

 

[epirali]

I don't have the same problems as you seem to have with points 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 12, or 13. 7 is an option so isn't really a problem and why waste weight on 11 - I had seat memory on my last two cars and it got used once.

Your point 9 may well be that you haven't yet adapted to the i3's driving style. Your 70 miles equates to 3.7 miles per kWhr, my average is 4.4 mi/kWhr (83 miles average) - some others do better than this.

I am pretty comfortable with various driving styles and efficiency you get. But it seems two things have happened since I posted that.

1) have found that over-inflating the front and rear tires equally by 4 PSI has helped with the range. This was my over sight, it is a basic trick to help, and I had left the tires at the dealer inflated "correct" numbers.

2) It may have been my battery/management had been left idle for well over a year. A few cycles of charge/discharge seem to have helped with the ACTUAL range I am getting (not the reported, never really rely on that anyway).

So I have to retract point 9. I can now get 85 miles with careful driving which is what I would have always expected on my particular mix of driving.