My intro message. BMW i3S is brilliant, but needs big range Solid State battery

[mojo]

Maybe there is a towing cart mechanism that holds an additional 600 mile state of art battery that connects to the charging port

That's good thinking - small trailer with a battery in the bottom half, and a diesel generator on top. Unfortunately the car won't drive with something plugged in to the charging port, but I've no doubt there's a way around that (custom built/programmed EME)? Might need to address the fact that (AFAIK) the car is not approved to take a towing hitch, but that doesn't sound hard either...

 

[GerryMD2024]

Why limit this to only the 120 Ah i3S? All i3 battery packs share an almost identical design. The original i3 could have its 60 Ah battery pack replaced by any battery pack that would fit in a 120 Ah i3S. Also, an i3S has the same battery pack as an i3 of the same model year. So your market for an upgraded battery pack would be far larger than owners of 120 Ah i3S's.

Hi Alohart
that's very useful information. Agreed, the market is very large. BMW manufactured 70,000 i3 vehicles.
and Lion Smart have a USA branch of their company, if we get to the stage of offering Lion Smart or another battery company an order for over $ 30 million (2,000 batteries for European & Nth American customers.
We could build some momentum here & when we have enough expressions of interest, we could agree to create a dedicated members-only website or suitable online structure.
Rgds GMD

 

[GerryMD2024]

Maybe there is a towing cart mechanism that holds an additional 600 mile state of art battery that connects to the charging port

Hi Jim. I don't understand why you joke about this matter. The technology is soon to be available to give us 600 Miles or 960 Kms range from battery that will fit in our i3 cars.
Please have an open mind & please examine these two websites of German firms. Lion Smart built a battery in 2014 that is ready for a direct swap of our existing battery. And High Performance Battery ( HPB )[ High Performance Battery ] have designed a Lithium Metal Solid State battery.
I got an explanation from a scientist colleague who said the HPB patented manufacturing process creates a battery that is not flammable. The delay with other Solid State Battery design companies (except HPB ) is that they use a different manufacturing process & they have not solved outstanding issues.
But everyone agrees the Solid State Batteries will be lighter than Li-Ion & will supply us much longer range.

 

[mojo]

BMW manufactured 70,000 i3 vehicles.

Sorry, but where does that figure come from? The figure that I have for global production is nothing even vaguely like 70,000.

 

[Skye2002]

That's good thinking - small trailer with a battery in the bottom half, and a diesel generator on top. Unfortunately the car won't drive with something plugged in to the charging port, but I've no doubt there's a way around that (custom built/programmed EME)? Might need to address the fact that (AFAIK) the car is not approved to take a towing hitch, but that doesn't sound hard either...

Well, no. Why did you purchase a car not suitable to what you actually need? I shake my head... that's the rattling you can hear . More research into your vehicle needs is clearly needed before purchase.

 

[Skye2002]

And just another thought... why are towbars not a BMW i3 option, at least in Australia? Pretty obvious to me... So perhaps a third party 'option'? Give me strength.

 

[mojo]

Well, no. Why did you purchase a car not suitable to what you actually need? I shake my head... that's the rattling you can hear . More research into your vehicle needs is clearly needed before purchase.

There may have been a touch of irony in my reply, and a lack of complete seriousness. Towbars are obtainable in many places (including the UK - I don't know about Australia). AFAIK none are rated to tow trailers or a load of any weight, because the structure of an i3 isn't designed to support a heavy load at the rear end - I think it's a simple as that!

If you read my replies above, you'll see that I don't need a 600 mile range. I'm happy with the range that I got from the factory. I don't have a trailer.

BMW manufactured 70,000 i3 vehicles.

But back to the relevant question - where does this figure come from?

 

[alohart]

Sorry, but where does that figure come from? The figure that I have for global production is nothing even vaguely like 70,000.

Global production was 250k. 70k must be for 1 particular market.

 

[mojo]

Presumably, but I can't find an obvious one!

Certainly not Europe, nor any obvious subset of Europe.

It's not a cumulative total that matches any country, that I can see.

 

[oldeagle1]

many thanks for the advice that for a 8-to-10 year old i3S, I might need to replace the motor etc. The car bodywork is perfect & shiny-as-new after 4-years. It will be disappointing to accept ALL cars need to be replaced with new ones minimum every ten years.
I need 1,000 European Owners of i3S 120AH cars to form a buyers group:
My dream is to get 1,000 (one thousand) owners of (2019 to 2021 models) to form a buyers group & place a purchase order for Euro 15 million with a European designed & produced Solid State Lithium metal battery batteries.
I found High Performance Battery [ High Performance Battery ] who have a patented design to safely & efficiently manufacture Solid State Lithium metal batteries. They have licensed a Swiss battery manufacturer to produce these.
If we get 1,000 orders together, then we source local firms in a number of EU countries to replace our existing Li-ion batteries with Lithium metal batteries. and those older batteries can be re-cycled by one company to extract the Lithium & other elements & supply that Lithium to the Swiss battery manufacturer. ( we would need to pay separately for retro-fit service, where they retain our older batteries and sell to the re-cycle company)

I hope to hear back from like minded Europeans (step 1) & if this works, someone in Americas could form own buyer group. Together we could have over $ 30 million buying power.
I especially welcome contact from those who would form an 20-to-50 person "engineering & financing & legal" advisory group to launch the project to benefit the 1,000 first-adopters buying group

Hi Gerry - I have 2016 REX, live in Arizona, and would consider joining a buyers group or helping with the project. Matthew Z.: [email protected]

 

[jphughes3]

Sorry, but where does that figure come from? The figure that I have for global production is nothing even vaguely like 70,000.

The i3 debuted as a concept at the 2011 International Motor Show Germany,[15][16] and production began in September 2013[17] in Leipzig.

It ranked third amongst electric cars sold worldwide from 2014 to 2016.[18][19][20] Its global sales totaled 250,000 units by the end of 2022.[21] Germany was its biggest market with over 47,500 units delivered through December 2021, followed by the U.S. with over 45,000.[22]

The i3 won two World Car of the Year Awards, selected as 2014 World Green Car of the Year and as 2014 World Car Design of the Year.[23] The i3 received an iF Product Design Gold Award, and won UK Car of the Year 2014 and Best Supermini of 2014 in the first UK Car of the Year Awards.

 

[GerryMD2024]

Sure. When you include Rex versions & include worldwide sales; Yes. Reports say 250,000 i3 cards were sold.
For EU, UK & Nth America markets, I had estimated 70,000 sales of i3S 120AH models sold since Sept 2018. But since you guys suggest same battery size fits Rex models & some Rex owners are interested, then is will be easier to find 2,000 interested users in Europe & USA.

 

[mojo]

Ah, Ok - you've decided to cover the world instead of just Europe, then? As far as I know, no significant number of 120Ah REX models were sold in Europe.

To be frank, I'm surprised at your findings. I would have expected that your market research to date would have encountered low enthusiasm from anyone with a vehicle where the battery is still subject to the manufacturer's warranty. When it comes to the crunch, I would expect to see strong resistance to the idea of voiding that warranty - to many owners, it would represent a significant part of the value of any EV.

If that were the case, you should not be considering the owners of any car younger than 2019 to be a likely initial customer, as all of those will still have a valid battery pack warranty in 2027. That situation would be worse (in terms of possible customer numbers) for some US states where CARB warranty rules apply?

Of course, you have not yet said what your intentions on warranty are.

 

[GerryMD2024]

Hi Gerry - I have 2016 REX, live in Arizona, and would consider joining a buyers group or helping with the project. Matthew Z.: [email protected]

Ah, Ok - you've decided to cover the world instead of just Europe, then? As far as I know, no significant number of 120Ah REX models were sold in Europe.

To be frank, I'm surprised at your findings. I would have expected that your market research to date would have encountered low enthusiasm from anyone with a vehicle where the battery is still subject to the manufacturer's warranty. When it comes to the crunch, I would expect to see strong resistance to the idea of voiding that warranty - to many owners, it would represent a significant part of the value of any EV.

If that were the case, you should not be considering the owners of any car younger than 2019 to be a likely initial customer, as all of those will still have a valid battery pack warranty in 2027. That situation would be worse (in terms of possible customer numbers) for some US states where CARB warranty rules apply?

Of course, you have not yet said what your intentions on warranty are.

The BMW i3S 120Ah comes with an 8-year warranty on its high-voltage battery, which covers up to 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
My car is from March 2019. Its battery warranty expires March 2027; The 2020 cars warranty expire 2028; etc
Previous messages, I said I was not planning to start a company.
We need 1,000 or more to come together to present a potential large battery supply contract to an existing battery manufacturer (who need to offer warranty etc), and line up official trained battery swap out firms nearer to end-customers. The swap out battery replacements need to start 2027 and run for 3 years.

 

[EvanstonI3]

Let’s say you get 2000 “interested” owners Today.
How many will still be “owners” in 3 years?

 

[mojo]

The BMW i3S 120Ah comes with an 8-year warranty on its high-voltage battery, which covers up to 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
My car is from March 2019. Its battery warranty expires March 2027; The 2020 cars warranty expire 2028; etc

That's exactly my point. You quote a 70,000 figure, but then you have to accept that a very large part of that number will still be in-warranty by your target date of 2027. IMO you are looking at the wrong target market. You need to be looking (for the bulk of your sales) at the older ownership base.

And, of course, as EvanstonI3 says, you need to be aiming at owners who will be outside warranty then AND willing to make a commitment 3 years away.

So you will need to think about the way in which you word the contractual terms when you start to ask for up-front money. A significant proportion are going to experience a change of circumstances (and hence a change of car) in the intervening period (not to mention those where more direct intervention occurs, such as the car being written off in an accident).

 

[autobahndan]

Hi Gerry - I have 2016 REX, live in Arizona, and would consider joining a buyers group or helping with the project. Matthew Z.: [email protected]

2014 REx here. Cleveland Ohio.
Quite interested.

 

[GerryMD2024]

2014 REx here. Cleveland Ohio.
Quite interested.

Hi Cleveland. Please feel free to email direct to Matthew Z.: [email protected] ( Matthew can collect names, emails & tel nos for USA. I will gather names in Europe )

 

[GerryMD2024]

That's exactly my point. You quote a 70,000 figure, but then you have to accept that a very large part of that number will still be in-warranty by your target date of 2027. IMO you are looking at the wrong target market. You need to be looking (for the bulk of your sales) at the older ownership base.

And, of course, as EvanstonI3 says, you need to be aiming at owners who will be outside warranty then AND willing to make a commitment 3 years away.

So you will need to think about the way in which you word the contractual terms when you start to ask for up-front money. A significant proportion are going to experience a change of circumstances (and hence a change of car) in the intervening period (not to mention those where more direct intervention occurs, such as the car being written off in an accident).

OK. Maybe you have a point. We have a few USA Rex owners interested. With patience, we might get more than 1,000 in USA before summer 2025. Then we would push battery manufacturer +retrofit companies to supply Rex owners starting early 2026.

 

[bornelectric2018]

It's precisely because the i3/i3s doesn't have all of the latest tech gadgets that the possibility of having a battery replacement that brings improved tech and a significant increase in range really excites me. There's a beautiful and functional minimalism in the interior design of the i3 that sets it apart from every other car on the road today. Improving its range without changing its fundamental character would be a huge win.

You might argue that the Tesla model 3 and model Y have a minimal interior design, but it's minimal to a fault - it's motivated more by saving money than it is about any carefully considered design ethos to create a focused, refined driving experience. I really can't stand the trend in new vehicles to do away with all physical controls in favor of gimmicky touch screens, capacitive touch controls, and "driving experience" lighting and sound profiles. Just shut up and give me a knob or a button that allows me to develop muscle memory and quickly make climate adjustments instead of forcing me to take my eyes off the road to poke some arbitrarily rendered target icon on a UI nightmare of a touch screen interface. Sadly, BMW is as guilty of this as any other manufacturer at this point. I guess knobs and buttons just aren't cool enough for the tech-obsessed, screen-addicted zombies buying cars these days...

I also despise Tesla's "just put everything in a giant, centrally mounted touch screen" school of interior design and vehicle systems control. The latest iteration of the model 3 even does away with steering column stalks in favor of buttons on the steering wheel. Go ahead and call me an old fart, but I want important driving information to be conveyed to me quickly and efficiently, and I want to see that information directly ahead of me and above the steering wheel, whether on a HUD or a small screen. Some people (especially tech enthusiasts or young YouTube automotive "reviewers") ***** about the small instrument LCD panel in the i3, but I think it's perfect. I don’t need to see a freaking video game on a giant 24K resolution screen in ten million garish colors when I just want to check my my speed and range. To me, the driving dynamics and handling characteristics of a car is the primary source of entertainment, not some gimmicky, overly complicated infotainment system that takes my eyes off the road and is obsolete the minute it rolls off of the factory floor.

/rant