i3 v Tesla S - Elecric Efficiency Comparison

[jadnashuanh]

There was a press release a couple of days ago out of (I think) China that discussed a new internal terminal for use on Li-On batteries that allows them to both be recharged VERY fast (minutes, rather than hours if you can provide enough energy - and that could be an issue) plus, have a fairly significant increase in energy density. The inventor is part of a university and was one of the people honored for inventing the Li-On battery way back when. They said they were in talks with a manufacturer to produce them with a timeline of about 2-years. This could be a major breakthrough.

Given that most homes in the USA typically have a 100-300A service for their entire house, being able to recharge a big battery fast is just outside of the realm of feasibility which would force the issue to off-site, commercial units. I talked with the local BMW dealership yesterday about their possibility of installing a CCS unit, and they said it was still too expensive, even with the lower-cost, BMW sponsored unit. The unit itself isn't too dear, but the infrastructure to power it would take some very expensive upgrades. This is not feasible for the vast majority of homes, and many businesses. So, we may end up with better batteries, but no readily available way to make best use of them. More chicken/egg issues.

 

[ultraturtle]

Agree.

The low mass and volume specific energy density and long energy recuperation time of any current and near future battery power technology will relegate them to practical use for the first 80 to 150 miles range for the next decade or two. Efficiency drops off too quickly for them to be environmentally responsible for ranges beyond that. Highly efficient gasoline engines like those in the Toyota Plug-In Prius (PiP), BMW i3 REx, and Chevy Volt currently spew fewer greenhouse gas emissions per mile operating on gasoline than do the more massively sized battery capacity vehicles currently available (operating on an average of USA national average electrical grid filth) and obviously far fewer emissions (as much as 39% fewer for the i3 BEV) when operating on electricity.

A BEV like the Nissan LEAF or BMW i3 BEV is a fine choice, as long as your gas hog backup for trips beyond its range is a Toyota PiP, BMW i3 REx, or a Chevy Volt.

 

[Anonymous]

Model 3 is the top contender for my next car. But I simply can`t buy that unless they have reduced standby to an acceptable level which for my is under 0.1 kWh in 24 hours.

Vampire losses, it's all to do about nothing. The CO2 cost to produce a vehicle is so massive compared to using public transit, that IF YOU REALLY CARED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT, you would use a bus/subway/walk/eat only locally grown foods/etc.

Seriously...0.1kWh ?!? Why not 0.00000001 kWh, or less? Why stop at a that?

I mean, really, my little Smart ED is more efficient for the environment than a BMW i3 due to the vastly reduced CO2 required to actually produce a car with less materials (900Kg) than any other.

Meanwhile, I drive my Smart ED with ZERO care for efficiency. The amount of energy used differential from ECO driving vs enjoying the quick sprints from a stop is not worth my effort.

 

[Anonymous]

A BEV like the Nissan LEAF or BMW i3 BEV is a fine choice, as long as your gas hog backup for trips beyond its range is a Toyota PiP, BMW i3 REx, or a Chevy Volt.

The Tesla Model S is clearly not as efficient as those smaller vehicles you listed. Tesla is rolling out the supercharger network first, and will follow up with solar power for many of the more busy sites over time (it's part of their plan). So what is "true" today, changes in only 2 years time. Meanwhile, a PIP will NEVER get more efficient, it will always continue to produce the same amount of emissions for it's entire life before it reaches old age.

Then again, I cannot imagine road trips in any of the cars you listed for my family, we prefer a larger vehicle for comfort. We've done trips in a newer 2010 rental Prius and the noise and vibrations of the gas engine really make it an uninviting place to be for many hours...

Here in Ontario, I charge my car (and power my house) using 100% renewable electricity I purchase through "BullFrog power", so while I have spent a lot of effort to reduce our energy usage, we don't need to look for every few watts of savings anymore.

 

[ultraturtle]

...Tesla is rolling out the supercharger network first, and will follow up with solar power for many of the more busy sites over time...

Solar panels at Supercharger stations are largely window dressing. Consider the math. Even if there were room enough to place 68 x 250 watt panels at each Supercharger, that 17 kW capacity would generate an average of only 68 kWh per day at a southern latitude, enough to charge a single Model S 85kWh to 80%. All charging in excess of that single charge comes from the local grid, which emits more well to wheel greenhouse gasses than does a Plug-In Prius in all but 13 states.

PV installations at home make more sense. One would need only an additional ~2 kW per i3 or just under 3 kW per Model S capacity added to their current systems to fully charge each for 12,000 miles of driving per year.