Advice from current i3 owners who owned a Nissan Leaf

[alohart]

My fundamental surprise has been that efficiency gain is so small considering the amount of engineering and technology put into the car. I would have expected more.

Tony Williams, an EV enthusiast and one of the people who documented the Leaf's battery degradation in high-temperature areas of the country, has measured the range of various EV's at 62 mph over an 80+ mile mostly flat freeway course around southern California. His measured range of various Leaf year models and trims has been between 81 and 88 miles. His measured range of an i3 BEV over the same course under the same conditions was 89 miles, or more than any Leaf he measured. So with a battery pack capacity 88% that of a Leaf, an i3's range was greater at steady state highway speeds. Battery improvements due to better chemistry, construction, etc., have been minimal, so the significantly better efficiency of the i3 relative to the Leaf is due to BMW focussing on lower weight. The aerodynamic drag of a Leaf should be less than that of an i3, so the i3's better range at highway speeds is even more impressive. You are unimpressed by this improvement, but many others are very impressed.

It will be interesting to see how much the i3's battery pack degrades over time in hot areas. With active battery pack temperature management, it should do much better than a Leaf. This should be an area in with the i3 excels relative to the Leaf. Maybe that would make you feel better about your i3

I have even noticed that with adaptive cruise control the car uses regen more aggressively than I would expect.

I have noticed that in Comfort mode, but in Eco Pro or Eco Pro+, my experience has been that regen is less aggressive when ACC detects a need to decelerate. However, I think this is basically the inability of this mono camera-based ACC to measure distances to the car in front accurately enough to begin decelerating earlier. When I see cars stopped way in front of me, I usually disengage ACC and begin decelerating gradually using as little regen as possible. I don't find this any more difficult than in our former Mitsubishi i-MiEV which had much less aggressive regen even in its 'B' mode (maximum regen).

 

[I33t]

I am very clear on my logic. I am not discussing flat test loop efficiency, as I do not live on a test track. These numbers are a good starting point for comparison, but not the end of the story. For all its technology the i3 BEV is not really delivering the same range as a Leaf. Accounting for smaller battery it makes up a little for it by slightly better efficiency but falls short. So the trade off of a smaller battery DID NOT gain or match range. If it had then i3 would be a lighter car with same range.

They certainly are a good starting point, and of course your own observations are relevant to the terrain you drive in and your use of accessories and driving style. The EPA tests show the REX range is 72 miles, and the 2011 Leaf is 73 miles. Sure looks like the lighter car with the smaller battery does match range. The BEV eats it with 81 miles. Do you have your Leaf long term statistics on consumption and range?

My current observations are in moderate temperatures (70-85 F), on elevation changes of under 300 feet, and in mixed speeds of driving ranging from 35 to 65. I have plotted this same course with elevation changes and consumption for the Leaf using available tools. Only thing I can not do exactly with i3 is a SOC percentage.

There is a very large community of leaf drivers who have studied it's behavior as engineers and understand its strength and weaknesses. I have yet to see that kind of rigor applied to the i3.

I'm sure this will occur for the i3, it's the new kid on the block.

I drive an i3 BEV and I live up a 1000ft hill that I need to scale every trip on the way home. I have no trouble matching the EPA 81 mile range, so I suspect if I lived on the plains I would be pushing toward 100 mile range without a lot of effort.

Not sure about wanting less regen, I'd like more!

 

[epirali]

My fundamental surprise has been that efficiency gain is so small considering the amount of engineering and technology put into the car. I would have expected more.

Tony Williams, an EV enthusiast and one of the people who documented the Leaf's battery degradation in high-temperature areas of the country, has measured the range of various EV's at 62 mph over an 80+ mile mostly flat freeway course around southern California. His measured range of various Leaf year models and trims has been between 81 and 88 miles. His measured range of an i3 BEV over the same course under the same conditions was 89 miles, or more than any Leaf he measured. So with a battery pack capacity 88% that of a Leaf, an i3's range was greater at steady state highway speeds. Battery improvements due to better chemistry, construction, etc., have been minimal, so the significantly better efficiency of the i3 relative to the Leaf is due to BMW focussing on lower weight. The aerodynamic drag of a Leaf should be less than that of an i3, so the i3's better range at highway speeds is even more impressive. You are unimpressed by this improvement, but many others are very impressed.

It will be interesting to see how much the i3's battery pack degrades over time in hot areas. With active battery pack temperature management, it should do much better than a Leaf. This should be an area in with the i3 excels relative to the Leaf. Maybe that would make you feel better about your i3

I have even noticed that with adaptive cruise control the car uses regen more aggressively than I would expect.

I have noticed that in Comfort mode, but in Eco Pro or Eco Pro+, my experience has been that regen is less aggressive when ACC detects a need to decelerate. However, I think this is basically the inability of this mono camera-based ACC to measure distances to the car in front accurately enough to begin decelerating earlier. When I see cars stopped way in front of me, I usually disengage ACC and begin decelerating gradually using as little regen as possible. I don't find this any more difficult than in our former Mitsubishi i-MiEV which had much less aggressive regen even in its 'B' mode (maximum regen).

I have read his tests on Leafs had not seen the i3. Its not that I am not impressed, it is that I would expect more for the amount of effort, technology and work that went into the i3. By contrast I find the i8 an engineering marvel, you can see where all the effort paid off in many many ways. So let's say the i3 with smaller pack achieves a longer range (and from his tests you are looking at 81 vs 89 miles). So yes it is more with less. But its a gain of around 17%. Yes it is nice, but is it worth it? Opinions vary.

I definitely think the active BMS is a huge improvement, and lack of it is the failure of the Leaf. I am leasing the i3 so honestly personally I don't have strong feeling either way. But as I said I am curious about how being able to precondition the battery will help the range. On my i8 tests when it was around 50 F it didn't make much difference, but that is not cold enough to get the real answers.

As for regen, ideally I would like every manufacturer to give you control based on driving conditions. Right now most people who drive EVs are pretty savvy, so complexity shouldn't be the reason.

All in all my experience with Leaf was I liked it more and more the longer I drove it, and so far my experience with the i3 is the opposite. Range isn't the dominant issue, its the ride character (confused imo), the twitchiness of the wheel and accelerator.

But yes ultimately only the opinion of one person here.

 

[epirali]

I am very clear on my logic. I am not discussing flat test loop efficiency, as I do not live on a test track. These numbers are a good starting point for comparison, but not the end of the story. For all its technology the i3 BEV is not really delivering the same range as a Leaf. Accounting for smaller battery it makes up a little for it by slightly better efficiency but falls short. So the trade off of a smaller battery DID NOT gain or match range. If it had then i3 would be a lighter car with same range.

They certainly are a good starting point, and of course your own observations are relevant to the terrain you drive in and your use of accessories and driving style. The EPA tests show the REX range is 72 miles, and the 2011 Leaf is 73 miles. Sure looks like the lighter car with the smaller battery does match range. The BEV eats it with 81 miles. Do you have your Leaf long term statistics on consumption and range?

I do, and it varies greatly (obviously) by ambient temperature. In the warm summer months I have easily hit 100 miles is <40 mph driving, and easily can do around 83-84 with a mix but more freeway at 65 mph. But this is driving in Eco mode and driving for range obviously (not accelerating hard, etc).

In the winter/cold it is very very different. At around 20-30F without snow resistance I can get a range of 55-60 at best. Again this is with conservative driving. And all of these numbers require preconditioning the car on shore power and my leaf does have the more efficient heat pump (the resistive heating element is a killer).

And my Leaf battery had no real degradation, so this is very different that owners who suffered 30+% degradation.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Most people really like the power of the i3, and tend to use it. The i3 is both lighter and has a more powerful motor, which makes it quite quick compared to most of the other pure EVs out there. Ideally, you'd never use any regen, and coast to a stop only relying on drag which means less energy wasted.

 

[cab]

While I really like the i3 rex (note: not an owner), and am still considering it as a replacement to our Volt (lease is up in a month), I have decided to hold off on getting a replacement until I have had an opportunity to try out the gen 2.0 Volt which is progressively becoming more compelling for me. I like the ride the longer wheelbase of gen 1 affords and my 38 mile round trip commute aligns well with the Volt's capabilities. When we eclipse 50 or 60 miles in a day, we often go well over so the delta between the i3's 72 miles and Volt's 50 isn't that compelling. I prefer the sportiness and acceleration of the i3, and its funky looks have really grown on me - still a test drive (of the Volt) will tell the tale and that is 6 months out for me (in Texas).