Will likely be buying an i3 within a few months

[skeptic]

What I'm looking for in a new commuter and why I think I want an i3:

• I am interested in EVs and ready to try one. Cheaper fuel. Less maintenance. Yadda yadda yadda.
• I don't like FWD. I only buy RWD or AWD cars.
• I don't have a strict budget, but I consider myself kinda cheap and want to keep the purchase price under $20k.
• I will soon be commuting to work 58 miles round trip.
• Not a strict requirement, but I'd like something that can make a ~170 mile day trip.
• I hate the Tesla Model 3 interior so much it went from the top of my "eventually" list to never buy unless they redesign it. No point waiting for 2-3 year old ones to start hitting the used market.
• I could probably stretch my budget for an early model S, but the cheapest model S is still double the cheapest i3.
• Another item that's not a requirement, but I like the idea of a small EV for easier in-town parking. It seems like every year parking spaces keep getting smaller and the number of "compact car" spaces keeps increasing. I've even seen some Electric Vehicle Only parking spaces that didn't have chargers, just spaces reserved for EVs.

In any event, these are the options I think I want in an i3, but I'm hoping to get your input.

• 2014-2016: Any year should be fine as long as it has the right options and is in good shape, but if I want to keep it under $20k then it looks like I need to stick to 2016 or older.
• REX: daily commute of 58 miles round trip. Even though the smallest battery should generally be enough, cold winter weather and highway driving may cut it too close. I just wouldn't be comfortable with anything under a 200 mile range and no range extender. I'd also like to be able to take it on longer day trips.
• Back up camera: After having one on the last 4 vehicles I've owned, I'll never have another vehicle without one.
• Adaptive cruise control: Unfortunately with a new job I will be dealing with some traffic. ACC seems like one of those things that make traffic more bearable.
• DC Fast Charger port. Standard on 2015+ and I may never use it, but I see it as one of those better to have and not use than need and not have type things.
• Harman Kardon stereo?: An hour+ in the car every day, I want a good stereo. I'm actually ok adding something aftermarket, but I just don't know how or even where you'd install something new. Maybe it's possible use the stock setup and just add/upgrade speakers and total power?
• 19" wheels. At this point I'd just take whatever it comes with, but from what I've read and heard the 19" wheels ride a little nicer.

Beyond this, I'm not sure what else I should look for, what options people find they love or hate. I honestly don't think I'd care about the interior color, or leather vs cloth, or wood on the dash. Basically, if it's purely aesthetic then it has little influence on my buying decision.

 

[sipabit]

I like the way you outlined everything. Very easy to read and therefore I read it and here's my responses.

Yes, you want something 2016 or older for that price point. Looks like you've done your homework. The 2016's I believe just ran out of warranty so it's no longer the best deals out there in the history of the car, but you can still get some amazing deals. Yes $20k is exactly the sweet spot for a 2016 with at least 1-2 of the packages and with probably around 30k miles on the odometer. Try to avoid the first year, the 2014 (in the US or 2013 outside the US). Issues were solved by software, but you won't get it much cheaper for a 2014 than a 2016 when taking mileage into account, so i'd just stick with the 2016 for best value and balance.

I thought that all models had back up cameras.

I've only done some mild casual testing, but it seems that the active cruise control doesn't work as efficiently as doing it by foot. So if mileage is a concern, then you may not be using the ACC that often. In all honesty, I did get a loaner i3 recently and after having tried the ACC on that car, I do sorta wish that I had that on mine. Wouldn't take it if I had to sacrifice everything else though.

The 2014's only had the DC charge port as an add on option. 2015's and newer all have it standard as you already pointed out. Again, you did your homework. That's very impressive.

Speakers, you can upgrade the insulation which some have done and that'll improve the sound quality. Base sound system has only 2 speakers and the upgraded HK one has 6 speakers. So it's 3x the number of speakers. With cars having 14 or so speakers these days, it makes the 2 on the base model sound pretty old (pun intended).

Yes, smaller wheels will generally ride softer.

If the interior aesthetics aren't much of a concern, you have a lot of cars to choose from. I personally love the larger screen. That was a make or break for me. Would I sacrifice it for a larger battery. Maybe a surprise to some, but I would never. I came from a 2005 MB C230K which is a car with no infotainment screen and no bluetooth so I did get excited about the large screen and felt like it was an upgrade that was a long time waiting.

Look more into the tire size. I forget the details but you seem to be good at your research. Look into which cars have a staggered setup (rear tires wider) with front wheels narrower. You may prefer the models that have the same size all around. Or you may not care at all. The reason you might is that the tires can't be found in stock in mostly any place at all. So you'll need to order it if you ever need a replacement. Some people choose to stock a spare. Not sure on your storage situation but for some, storing 2 different sized tires in their home vs 1 is a big deal. So depends on your situation. I don't know if you have a garage or not or if you'd ever plan to possess a spare. I live in the city with resources everywhere so I don't bother stocking a spare at home but that's just me.

My have a weird package on mine. It's the Value Package so I'm actually not familiar with whether other i3's all have the garage remote control built into the mirror. This is a must have for me as I live in an area with high car break-ins meaning I can't just leave a garage door opener in plain site nor accessible. Unlocking it from the glove compartment each time I need to get in and out just isn't something I'd want to do. So this garage remote control button is a big deal for me personally (although I've found it to stop working on occasion, 2x in 1 year but lately it doesn't work maybe 50% of the time. Maybe it's an interference thing. Maybe it's a garage door thing and has nothing to do with the car. Dunno.

Sounds like you need the REX so don't consider the BEV at all no matter how attracted you are to the price or having to do less maintenance.

 

[skeptic]

Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail. I did try to do my research then list my thoughts in an easy to read way. At this point I think I'm down to the 'I don't know what I don't know' type items.

Parking and tire storage - not a problem. If I end up needing to store a spare tire or even two sets of tires, 20" summer and 19" winter, I have room.
Honestly, tires is one area I want to look into a bit more. Everyone says the skinny stock tires are just fine, no need for wider... Then I watch a review of the i3s and the slightly wider tires are praised for being better. If I end up with an i3 (looking more and more likely) I will eventually seriously look into swapping i3s or similar sized wheels/tires on it.

Good thinking on the Homelink (or whatever BMW calls the garage door opener on the rear view mirror), I hadn't even considered that it might be an option. I have a gate that can be opened with a garage door opener. I could get away with just using a remote, but I'd rather use a Homelink setup like I do in my current vehicles. If nothing else, my wife can't "just grab the remote for a minute" and forget to put it back if it's built in.

I don't believe you need a lot of speakers to sound good, they just need to be good ones. Four plus a sub should do it. I guess I should research this a bit more, but how are people upgrading the stock 2-speaker setup? Are people installing more speakers and/or upgrading the stereo somehow? It seems like it's so integrated that you might be able to add speakers, but the head unit part is all you can ever get. I've been putting aftermarket android compatible head units in my cars since they first became available. I know already that not having Android Auto compatibility is going to be a negative. If I can go bluetooth music and quality speakers/amp/sub, I'll just have to accept it. To put it another way, if Android Auto was an option in 2016 or older, it would be on my must have list.

 

[alohart]

I thought that all models had back up cameras.

Unfortunately, not. Until the 2018 or 2019 model, a backup camera (option 3AG) was included only with the Park Assist package (option 5DU).

I've only done some mild casual testing, but it seems that the active cruise control doesn't work as efficiently as doing it by foot.

I always drive with adaptive cruise control (ACC - option 544 included in the Tech + Driving Assist package) on and have a lifetime efficiency of 5.1 mi/kWh running A/C much of the year here in Honolulu but with no >60 mph driving. However, when I can see farther ahead than ACC's low-resolution camera can and can see that traffic is slowing or stopped, I briefly disengage ACC and allow regen braking to decelerate more gently than ACC typically does. Also, ACC is very conservative with accelerating after a vehicle ahead changes lanes, so I frequently press the power pedal briefly until ACC begins to accelerate. So it's possible to drive with ACC on while occasionally controlling deceleration and acceleration manually which likely is a bit more efficient than allowing ACC full control over deceleration and acceleration.

Base sound system has only 2 speakers and the upgraded HK one has 6 speakers.

Actually, the base entertainment system includes 2 front door speakers plus 2 kick panel woofers. Some i3 owners feel that the Bavsound front door speaker upgrade is an improvement.

I did not feel that the $800 MSRP price of the Harman Kardon entertainment system was worthwhile, especially because our drives are typically quite short. However, this is a subjective personal preference with which many i3 owners disagree.

Look into which cars have a staggered setup (rear tires wider) with front wheels narrower.

All i3's except the BEV model with type 427 "pizza slice" 19" wheels (e.g., Mega World trim) have a staggered setup. All REx models have a staggered setup due to the additional weight of the REx engine over the rear wheels.

My have a weird package on mine. It's the Value Package so I'm actually not familiar with whether other i3's all have the garage remote control built into the mirror.

The Integrated Universal Remote Control (option 319) as well as the very nice Comfort Access (option 322) were included only with Giga and Tera World trim levels on 2014 models. I am not certain whether these features were included in lower trim levels in 2015 and 2016 models. Enter the VIN of an i3 of interest in one of the BMW VIN decoder sites to determine which options are included.

 

[frictioncircle]

Hello skeptic!

If you share your general location (country is enough) that'll help folks give you better answers, particularly regarding options.

I've owned my 2014 BEV since new. I still love it. A few thoughts based on your original message:

– If you can find a way to make a BEV work with your commute, they are less-complex machines. You won't need to think about oil & filter changes. You won't be carrying around an additional 300 lb. engine.

– The i3 is brilliant for urban parking. The turning radius will have you executing U-turns you wouldn't have thought possible. At a length of about 157 inches plus the aggressive front-wheel angle, you'll be able to park in spaces you'd have bypassed before. Your only nemeses will be Chevy Spark and Smart drivers! :lol:

– ACC, everyone has their own opinion. The system is camera-based and uses tech that is (likely) seven+ years old. I don't use it on the freeway unless the traffic is light. This is mostly because when a car drops into the space between you and the one in front of you, the i3 doesn't gently reduce speed, it goes into full regen to maintain the preset distance. You'll go from a 58-62 mph cruise to 48mph in a few seconds. Watch the cars behind you pile up and change lanes to get away from you.

– DCFC charging, get it if you can, it's wonderful to bump your range by 50 miles in about 30 minutes.

– HK stereo, I'm particular about sound quality and am very happy with the HK system. It makes satisfying lows and highs without having to max out the tone controls. A friend has the base sound system and think the HK option is a significant step up. You're not going to get your rear license plate shakin', but they did a good job here.

 

[skeptic]

I'm in the Pacific Northwest - Oregon. I'm actually starting to second guess my 2016 or older, $20k target price. I still want a REX because range anxiety and possible day trips, but I'm questioning whether or not I need to step up to the 94 Ah battery. If the 80 mile range of the 60 Ah battery is really something under 60 miles when running up and down the highway at 70 mph in the cold then it's probably not the best option for me.

 

[eNate]

Purely from a cost standpoint, if you forego a 16 REX for a 17 BEV with the 94 Ah battery, evaluate this: A CCS charger will get your battery up to 80% (100+ miles range) in less than 30 minutes. For your planned 170 mile trips, are there CCS charging stations anywhere along your normal routes that will make this work? Check on Plugshare. CCS stations seem to be popping up with regularity. Definitely for your anticipated daily commute of 58 miles, the 2017 BEVs will be more than adequate, even in the cold of winter. In fact, you get the heat pump in the BEV model that makes heating the cabin even more efficient i.e. more battery-friendly.

 

[skeptic]

My 170ish mile day trips are to the Oregon coast, looks like the answer is no CCS chargers according to plugshare. Technically there is one not too far out of the way, but according to plugshare the level 3 DC fast charger has not worked for months. I could probably get away with a BEV, certainly I could for my daily commute. However, first EV and just the though of under 200 miles without REX gives me range anxiety. I may get a REX then later decide a BEV would have been fine, but I need to figure that out for myself.

I did think of a couple questions now that I'm browsing online ads. I know from past experience that car ads are notoriously inaccurate. I'll include things I have figured out in case others have similar questions - how can I tell from photographs if the car has these features:

REX: 2nd "gas tank" door on front passenger fender.
Adaptive Cruise Control: 2 extra buttons on left side of steering wheel to adjust follow distance
Backup Camera: ?? I THINK this only/always comes with the auto park feature and I THINK that's a "P" button in the center console??
Harmon Kardon sound system: ?? Not sure what to look for in pictures.
Larger screen: Does a larger screen = other features or is it a stand alone option?

 

[eNate]

On US models, the large screen is the easiest indication of the tech package, which includes adaptive cruise, followed by the green circle around the car icon under the hazard button, followed by the extra steering wheel buttons you mentioned -- these all go hand-in-hand here.

HK speakers best indicator is the speaker grilles covering the tweeters in A pillars.

Rear cam is definitely standard on 17, not sure if that took effect that model year or earlier., but would be listed on mdecoder.com using the VIN if the camera lens dot isn't discernable in photos of the rear of the vehicle, centered above the license plate.

And truly, mdecoder + VIN is always going to be your best bet to verify all options once you think you've got a viable specimen.

 

[frictioncircle]

Dear skeptic –

I wish BMW would use the battery convention that the rest of the world has decided upon: kWh, not Ah.

A 22 kWh battery (60Ah) will not deliver "60 miles when running up and down the highway at 70 mph in the cold", not when new, and certainly not now. If you want to drive on the freeway (a FLAT freeway) at 70mph with cabin heat and outside temps below 55°F, expect that 22kWh battery to deliver a range of around 45 miles. Your commute profile makes me think that, if you purchase a 22kWh i3, you need a REx model unless you're able to charge at work.

A 33kWh/94Ah BEV would probably serve you better.

In 2014 I made the switch from gas cars to my i3 BEV. Years of "range anxiety" press coverage lingered in the back of mind when I purchased my i3. After a short while of driving full electric I realized that, in many ways, range anxiety is a manufactured concept.

Some people want to get in a car and just go. If this is your personality, you may fret about range and where to charge. If you are comfortable with planning ahead and considering energy use, I think you'd enjoy driving an i3. I didn't care a whit about gas mileage in my previous gasoline BMWs. Once I got my i3, though, I quickly got past range anxiety and found a lot of fun in cutting consumption.

And... the car is fun as hell to drive!

 

[skeptic]

Dear skeptic –

I wish BMW would use the battery convention that the rest of the world has decided upon: kWh, not Ah.

A 22 kWh battery (60Ah) will not deliver "60 miles when running up and down the highway at 70 mph in the cold", not when new, and certainly not now. If you want to drive on the freeway (a FLAT freeway) at 70mph with cabin heat and outside temps below 55°F, expect that 22kWh battery to deliver a range of around 45 miles. Your commute profile makes me think that, if you purchase a 22kWh i3, you need a REx model unless you're able to charge at work.

A 33kWh/94Ah BEV would probably serve you better.

Thanks. This is what I didn't want to hear, but need to hear. I see REX as an important to me safety net and occasional use requirement, but daily or nearly daily use kinda defeats the purpose.

In 2014 I made the switch from gas cars to my i3 BEV. Years of "range anxiety" press coverage lingered in the back of mind when I purchased my i3. After a short while of driving full electric I realized that, in many ways, range anxiety is a manufactured concept.

Some people want to get in a car and just go. If this is your personality, you may fret about range and where to charge. If you are comfortable with planning ahead and considering energy use, I think you'd enjoy driving an i3. I didn't care a whit about gas mileage in my previous gasoline BMWs. Once I got my i3, though, I quickly got past range anxiety and found a lot of fun in cutting consumption.

And... the car is fun as hell to drive!

At least for now, I will have other cars in case of emergency, ice/snow (we get some, but not a lot of that here), long trips (hundreds of miles), towing a trailer, etc. My main priority is just commuting, but I'm hopeful it will become my (almost) everything car. Maybe I'm wrong but I've convinced myself that I "need" over 200 miles of range or a range extender.

 

[skeptic]

One more thing I just thought of. If I'm looking at ads, or even in person, how can I tell what size battery it has? Is a VIN check the only way?

 

[eNate]

Generally, yes, to be sure. There's nothing on the display screen to indicate kWh unless you try to decipher estimated miles remaining , but that's a crapshoot. The majority of 2017 BEVs on Car Gurus are labeled as 60 Ah but are indeed 94 Ah. The model year is generally a good delineator of battery capacity, but I'd use mdecoder. Keep in mind 60 Ah models won't say anything about battery capacity, but 94 Ah will list 94 in the model name, same with 120.

 

[sipabit]

Base sound system has only 2 speakers and the upgraded HK one has 6 speakers.

Actually, the base entertainment system includes 2 front door speakers plus 2 kick panel woofers. Some i3 owners feel that the Bavsound front door speaker upgrade is an improvement.

Yes! I ordered them already. Couldn't wait 'til Christmas. Should be here early next week and I'll post a review separately on them. Looking forward to it.

 

[skeptic]

Ok, sooo...... I've never been more wishy-washy about a car purchase before in my life. Without trying to remember and list them all out I'd say I've owned at least 20 vehicles, so why am I being so indecisive about this one? Rhetorical question - the answer is it's my first EV and I don't want to buy something then realize it just doesn't work for me OR I spent $30k when I could have been just as happy with a one year older $17k one.

I'm still at least a month away from buying one (leaving on a trip tomorrow, start new job on Nov 4, and in the middle of a kitchen remodel which takes priority). However, just when I thought I had made up my mind to look for a 2017 94Ah Rex with active cruise I'm now considering going back to my original 2015/2016 Rex w/ACC plan. Reason? There is a $10k difference in price, roughly 50% premium.


Now for the actual question. I know nobody can give exact answers and I have tried searching.. Let's call my typical bad weather winter driving 40* and raining, mostly highway, keeping speeds under 70 mph, using adaptive cruise control and keeping the cabin temps reasonable (call it 68*). Any educated guesses on how far I can go before rex kicks in?

I'm even starting to think I might not care if I run 5 or 10 miles a day on rex. The tiny gas tank means hitting the gas station a few times a month, but an extra $10k in my pocket buys a LOT of fuel. See? I can't make up my mind!!!

 

[eNate]

Interesting. Sounds like you're not really wishy-washy about the car, just the battery options.

I'd revisit my original suggestion about taking a good hard look at a BEV model, 2017. That would fulfill your daily commute retirements, save you a few thousand, no REX concerns, no messing with gas fill-ups. To me, it sounds like a compromise worth reconsideration.

I know the BEV doesn't address your coastal run retirement, but are there some options there you can work around?

 

[skeptic]

Interesting. Sounds like you're not really wishy-washy about the car, just the battery options.

Correct. It's possible I could change my mind later, but I'm pretty set on an i3.

I'd revisit my original suggestion about taking a good hard look at a BEV model, 2017. That would fulfill your daily commute retirements, save you a few thousand, no REX concerns, no messing with gas fill-ups. To me, it sounds like a compromise worth reconsideration.

I know the BEV doesn't address your coastal run retirement, but are there some options there you can work around?

Honestly, from what I can tell there is little to no difference in price between the BEV and REX models. Maybe because there are less of them and a lot of people don't want the REX?

The coast trip ability is not an absolute requirement but it's a good example of what I'd like to be able to do. Call it insecurity or range anxiety or whatever, I'm just not ready to buy an EV with such a small range and no range extender. Is 60Ah sufficient or will I be unhappy unless I move up to the 94Ah is my current dilemma. I know frictioncircle already kinda answered this, but I'm hoping for some input from others. 45 miles sounds pretty worst-case, but it's not as easy as I'd expect to find other real world answers. You can't even search for "range" or "real world range" on this site.

 

[jfran2]

FWIW, my vote is for the older Rex model. I live in mid Missouri, with similar conditions to what you described in winter My 2014 Rex model will usually deliver around 50 miles on battery in winter, closer to 70 in summer. The key with the Rex model is to code it to Euro standards, so you can turn on the Rex at will below 75% charge. On a day trip to the coast, you can use gas for the highway miles, then switch to electricity for tooling around Cannon Beach. Back to gas for the highway trip home, and electricity when you hit the city limits. The coded Rex turns the i3 into a very useful car! I live 100 miles from the nearest big city, and there is an Electrify America DC fast charger at the halfway point. I usually stop there to fill up, but if I can't get it to work, it's sure nice to have the option to continue home with gas!

 

[skeptic]

I just got back from a trip, spent a lot of time in a Toyota Camry rental car. Let me start by saying what a disappointment of a car. We reserved a full-size car expecting something nicer and this is what we got, the only thing available. If nothing else, it reinforced my dislike for front wheel drive cars. One nice thing it had was adaptive (radar) cruise control. If I was ever questioning whether or not to hold out for an i3 with ACC this confirmed it, I will not buy an i3 without ACC. The Camry also had it's form of lane keep assist but it was complete rubbish. I get that it was only designed to keep you from drifting out of your lane and not something similar to Tesla autopilot, but it was garbage at even that. I ended up turning it off.

 

[skeptic]

So, spot of good news. I found a charger at work. It's not really listed on plugshare, probably because it's private for employee use only. I say "not really" listed because if you zoom way in near where it is there is a a shorepower icon listed.

I still want a REX or nothing, but a '15/'16 will be just fine. That's not to say I wouldn't buy a '17 if the right deal came along, but I'm no longer worried about running on gas to get home in cold weather all winter long.