Which EVSE?

[tiburonh]

I have found all the discussions about EVSE's on this forum very helpful. But I still could use some additional advice please as I try to decide which EVSE to install in my own garage for my i3 BEV that arrives next week.

I was initially planning to go with the Schneider 30 amp model, which has a max Kw of 7.2. But my electrician has suggested that I should move up to the Leviton model that is 32 amps and with a max Kw of 7.7. He says the i3's charger actually maxes at 7.7 Kw so I would not be maximizing my charge speed (or minimizing my charge time) with the Schneider. It wouldn't make a humongous difference, but it would still be a significant one.

Of course the Leviton is more expensive, about $300 more than the Schneider.

Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance.

H

 

[jadnashuanh]

I installed a Clipper Creek unit...made in the USA, cost about $600 delivered (hard wired version, not counting installation). I do not think you'll notice any difference between one rated 30 or 32A. In reality, they may end up being the same, but rated differently. Keep in mind that the charging unit in the i3 takes temperature into account, and it doesn't use the full charge rate the whole time - it tapers off near the end.

Note, the CLipper Creek unit is rated at 30A output...the Leviton unit is rated at 32A INPUT. THe unit does use some power itself - it has a power supply to run the indicator lights, the logic board that produces the control signals, and to power the relay...so, it is not clear how much power it actually can provide to the vehicle itself.

IOW, unless you could put an ammeter on it, or talked to them directly, I'm not sure whether one verses the other actually has a better output capability!

Now, to future proof things, you could opt to put in even a higher capacity unit - the car won't care - it won't draw more current than the device can provide or it can take (think a 100W light bulb on a 15A circuit...it still only draws 100W). Then, if you got a new car that could take more input power, you'd just plug it in and get faster charging from it. The car listens to the EVSE as to what it can provide, then adjusts itself to accept what it wants up to that maximum, so, more isn't a problem.

 

[Zzzoom3]

Save your money and get the 30A, it won't make any significant difference. I assume your electrician considered the circuit wiring? If you buy more than a 30A unit, it will need to be on a 40 or 50 amp circuit breaker which also requires different gauge wiring and that will cost more as well.

 

[jadnashuanh]

In the USA, a 30A hard-wired appliance would need 30*1.25, or a 37.5A circuit breaker (you'd end up with a 40A one). So, a 32A unit would require the SAME 40A protection in the USA as 32*1.25 (125%) is 40A. THen, should you decide you want the flexibility of having the unit with a plug-in rather than hard wired, you'd need your wiring and circuit breaker to be bumped up to a 50A circuit, since there are NO 40A rated plugs, and you'd end up with a 50A plug and that requires it to be able to support the FULL power of the plug, or 50A, regardless of what the draw of the unit is.

IOW, hard wiring a 30 or 32A device will require exactly the same branch circuit in the USA. Going with a plug-in unit, you must conform to the available plug ratings, and those available (there are two types) are both rated at 50A. Going bigger is possible, but generally would only be hard-wired.

In the USA, you cannot hard-wire an appliance for it's exact power rating...you must use the 125% rule or it will not meet code and (at least) should not pass an inspection. The circuit breaker is to protect the WIRING, not the appliance. If an appliance wants additional protection, it must provide it itself.

 

[tiburonh]

In the USA, a 30A hard-wired appliance would need 30*1.25, or a 37.5A circuit breaker (you'd end up with a 40A one). So, a 32A unit would require the SAME 40A protection in the USA as 32*1.25 (125%) is 40A. THen, should you decide you want the flexibility of having the unit with a plug-in rather than hard wired, you'd need your wiring and circuit breaker to be bumped up to a 50A circuit, since there are NO 40A rated plugs, and you'd end up with a 50A plug and that requires it to be able to support the FULL power of the plug, or 50A, regardless of what the draw of the unit is.

IOW, hard wiring a 30 or 32A device will require exactly the same branch circuit in the USA. Going with a plug-in unit, you must conform to the available plug ratings, and those available (there are two types) are both rated at 50A. Going bigger is possible, but generally would only be hard-wired.

In the USA, you cannot hard-wire an appliance for it's exact power rating...you must use the 125% rule or it will not meet code and (at least) should not pass an inspection. The circuit breaker is to protect the WIRING, not the appliance. If an appliance wants additional protection, it must provide it itself.

Thanks everyone. This is all very helpful.

I did know about the need for a 40amp circuit regardless of whether I went with the 30 or 32 amp EVSE. Didn't know about the need to go up to 50 amp (which of course requires a more expensive breaker and more expensive wire) circuit in order to go the plug in route, which would be my preference.

I shall have another conversation with my electrician now.

Thanks again!

 

[F8L]

I vote for Clipper Creek. They are very reliable and the company truly backs their product. They started making the OE units for the 2013+ Volt after the first company's units started failing. I talked to the owner at a local EV demonstration last week here in Auburn and they helped us install 5 charging stations in our complex. They are a stand up company.

 

[i3Alan]

I vote for Clipper Creek. They are very reliable and the company truly backs their product. They started making the OE units for the 2013+ Volt after the first company's units started failing. I talked to the owner at a local EV demonstration last week here in Auburn and they helped us install 5 charging stations in our complex. They are a stand up company.

Clipper Creek also makes the standard "Occasional Use" L1 EVSE that comes standard in the US i3. I installed one of their L2 units, and it works perfectly well on my i3 and on a friend's Leaf.

 

[tiburonh]

In the USA, a 30A hard-wired appliance would need 30*1.25, or a 37.5A circuit breaker (you'd end up with a 40A one). So, a 32A unit would require the SAME 40A protection in the USA as 32*1.25 (125%) is 40A. THen, should you decide you want the flexibility of having the unit with a plug-in rather than hard wired, you'd need your wiring and circuit breaker to be bumped up to a 50A circuit, since there are NO 40A rated plugs, and you'd end up with a 50A plug and that requires it to be able to support the FULL power of the plug, or 50A, regardless of what the draw of the unit is.

IOW, hard wiring a 30 or 32A device will require exactly the same branch circuit in the USA. Going with a plug-in unit, you must conform to the available plug ratings, and those available (there are two types) are both rated at 50A. Going bigger is possible, but generally would only be hard-wired.

In the USA, you cannot hard-wire an appliance for it's exact power rating...you must use the 125% rule or it will not meet code and (at least) should not pass an inspection. The circuit breaker is to protect the WIRING, not the appliance. If an appliance wants additional protection, it must provide it itself.

Thanks everyone. This is all very helpful.

I did know about the need for a 40amp circuit regardless of whether I went with the 30 or 32 amp EVSE. Didn't know about the need to go up to 50 amp (which of course requires a more expensive breaker and more expensive wire) circuit in order to go the plug in route, which would be my preference.

I shall have another conversation with my electrician now.

Thanks again!

For what it's worth, I ended up going with the Leviton after all. I greatly value the posts of jadnashuanh , but both my electrician and my city's permit people felt he was wrong about needing to go up to a 50 amp circuit (and all that entails) to install the 32 amp Leviton.
So we did a 40 amp plug-in installation (as suggested also by Leviton itself). So far all is has gone well. Of course when the house burns down jadnashuanh will have the last laugh

 

[jadnashuanh]

The house won't burn down, but it is not installed per code and should have failed an inspection! FWIW, there are NO approved 40A plugs, and when you install a 50A plug, the wiring and protection to it MUST match to pass code. And, the installation instructions for these things also say the same thing. The CB protects the WIRING, not what it plugged into it (at least how electrical stuff in the USA is designed). Now that you have a 50A plug, and someone later on decides to use it for their electric dryer or to plug in an arc welder and the breaker keeps popping, then maybe you'll understand why a 50A plug needs wiring to support it. It's the same idea why you can't put a 20A 120vac receptacle on a 15A circuit even though you're plugging in your phone...why people don't understand that, I just don't get it!

Hardwired is one thing...using a general use plug is totally a different thing.

 

[Doodie]

Why not get the best of both worlds...I had one of these for my Leaf and now works like a champ on the I3. I can now charge at 110 and 240 with the change of a pigtail, and cheaper then anything out there, made by Panasonic.


http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5

 

[F8L]

Why not get the best of both worlds...I had one of these for my Leaf and now works like a champ on the I3. I can now charge at 110 and 240 with the change of a pigtail, and cheaper then anything out there, made by Panasonic.


http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5

I'm not sure how you figure it's cheaper than competing units. EVSEUpgrade is a nice outfit and they retrofit great products. I had them upgrade my OE Prius PlugIn 120v EVSE to 240v.

However, there are other options. Assuming your panel can handle the current there are 30A and higher units for a similar price to the u it you linked to.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product-category/new-products/

 

[Doodie]

Why not get the best of both worlds...I had one of these for my Leaf and now works like a champ on the I3. I can now charge at 110 and 240 with the change of a pigtail, and cheaper then anything out there, made by Panasonic.


http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5

I'm not sure how you figure it's cheaper than competing units. EVSEUpgrade is a nice outfit and they retrofit great products. I had them upgrade my OE Prius PlugIn 120v EVSE to 240v.

However, there are other options. Assuming your panel can handle the current there are 30A and higher units for a similar price to the u it you linked to.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product-category/new-products/

Sorry not even in the same ballpark, can the clipper creek offer both 110 and 240...nope. Sure you can pack two chargers, but why. I have one charger and three pigtails that cover every 240 plug option, as well as 110.

Considering my upgraded Panasonic unit is at 30A and now I have the luxury of doing either 110 and 240 with one charger. It is well worth the additional 5.00 of the comparable clipper creek charger, but you are correct the clipper is 5.00 cheaper so I stand corrected there. Also, Just so everyone is aware, KOA campgrounds across the country offer 240 receptacles to use for dirt cheap, so in the area where there isn't a level 2 charger but a KOA campground, like where I live in Utah, I can get a charge no matter the output level or 240 plug. If I am spending 650 for a portable plug lets compare apples to apples, the only portable charger in the same league is the turbo cord but unfortunately they are only offered in 15A.

 

[F8L]

I guess if you live in an area where usable 240v outlets are abundant this makes sense. Most people buy the 240v unit for garage use..... But given this is an Internet forum it wouldn't be complete without people arguing over nothing so....

 

[vitaman]

We also installed a Clipper Creek 30A two days ago.
The Electrician specializes in EVs and it's the one he has the least issues with.
It is not the most aesthetically pleasing, but works like a champ.

 

[brosher]

I just installed the Siemens VC30BLKB. Its 599 on Amazon now and includes the plug. Installation was easy. It has a delay option, a pause button and pulsing green glow rings when charging.

 

[i3SiliconValley]

It really comes down to price and aesthetics and use case.

Doing it 'right' will be different for everyone, depending on budget. If you want to maximize charge rates and future proof, install a 50 AMP circuit and keep your options open. Your i3 won't be the last EV you purchase and you may even be a 2 car EV household in the not to distant future. Your next EV may easily use 40AMP or more. As battery tech evolves, you'll appreciate faster charge times - especially when charging 2 EVs.

If all you are solving for is L2 charging at least cost, Clipper Creek and others are just fine, but install a 40 AMP circuit.

Aesthetics: I can't understand why I want a large box EVSE on my wall. It adds unnecessary clutter. There are options available that avoid this plus provide portability. In addition to @doodies recommendation there is also the Jesla. http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm.

I purchased the Jesla because it uses the Tesla EVSE. The Tesla EVSE easily keeps my Tesla full, and Jesla easily handles my i3. Ya, overkill for the i3 but I like the quality of the product, it's unobtrusive, and it's portable. And I know it will handle the next EV I purchase. Good investment.

I'm really happy I don't have a large box EVSE on my wall.

 

[Mg012]

Two points,
1) going with a portable one with Nema 14-50 plug on the input can be used many places. Besides campgrounds where it is the standard, some restaurants, bed and breakfasts and hotels are installing the Nema 14-50 receptacle because it is a very cheap way to offer EV charging. Tesla's come with a portable unit with that plug, so most Tesla owners have that receptacle as well.
2) be aware that although most campgrounds are happy to let you charge if they have an open space, I have heard that KOA has issued a company wide NO to charging EVs. There is a good iPhone app Allstays Camp and RV that let's you filter for those campgrounds that have the 50 amp receptacle (nema14-50). Then you can call ahead to find out if it is available. I was surprised at how many of these are spread all over the country.

 

[BlameyGirl]

Why not get the best of both worlds...I had one of these for my Leaf and now works like a champ on the I3. I can now charge at 110 and 240 with the change of a pigtail, and cheaper then anything out there, made by Panasonic.


http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5

Good day Doodle!
Can you tell me if the upgrade you are recommending is outdoor rated?

 

[jadnashuanh]

That unit will work, but keep in mind, the specs indicate a max output of 6Kw, and the i3's charging circuits can handle up to 7.4Kw, so you'd never reach the full charge rate of the car (but would max out the EVSE). Then, you'd have to install a receptacle to plug it into 240vac. On 120vac, because most circuits available are 15A in the USA, and even if 20A, the occasional use EVSE that comes with the USA cars at 12A is about the best you're going to get reliably since US codes require 125% of the continuous load, so that 12A means a 15A circuit is required for it, and if it can handle more, you'd need to put a 20A plug on it to meet code, and while there are some out there, 15A is much more common. You can plug a 15A plug into a 15A circuit, but you can't plug a 20A plug into a 15A circuit because one pin is perpendicular to the other, whereas in the 15A plug, the two are parallel (thus protecting you from immediately overloading the circuit).

IMHO, unless you regularly have access to a place you could plug it in at 240vac outside of the home on a trip (not too likely), it isn't all that useful.

 

[alohart]

I was happy with our EVSEUpgrade'd Mitsubishi i-MiEV EVSE, but it went with our i-MiEV when we traded it in. So I have ordered a JuiceBox, a 50 amp EVSE that is available in a couple of versions with all sorts of features at a price that's hard to beat.