Welcome to the BMW i3 Forum

[jadnashuanh]

While some people's use pattern can utilize a level 1 EVSE, most people prefer to get things over with and not have to wait as long. This is especially true if say you got home from work and wanted to go out and do something later that evening, a level 2 unit or a close by available CCS unit would be critical. From a nearly discharged battery, the USA level 1 EVSE will take upwards of 19-hours to recharge the car. Now, most people don't discharge that far, so the recharging time would correspondingly be less, but worst case in a 30/32A level 2 unit, you're talking about a max of about 3.5-4 hours to recharge. Lots of them available, I have a Clipper Creek unit that has worked well for nearly two years now. One of the few made in the USA.

 

[Elettrico]

While some people's use pattern can utilize a level 1 EVSE, most people prefer to get things over with and not have to wait as long. This is especially true if say you got home from work and wanted to go out and do something later that evening, a level 2 unit or a close by available CCS unit would be critical. From a nearly discharged battery, the USA level 1 EVSE will take upwards of 19-hours to recharge the car. Now, most people don't discharge that far, so the recharging time would correspondingly be less, but worst case in a 30/32A level 2 unit, you're talking about a max of about 3.5-4 hours to recharge. Lots of them available, I have a Clipper Creek unit that has worked well for nearly two years now. One of the few made in the USA.

Thanks for the response! It's now day 2 of my i3 ownership and I quickly decided that I love the car and that the OUC is not going to cut it. It took 15 hrs to go from 27% to 100%. I've been doing a lot of reading and browsing for EVSE's and I think i"ve narrowed it down to two units. The most tempting is the Clipper Creek LCS-20 on Amazon for $379. The second option is the JuiceBox 40a for $499. Is it worth the difference in price to go with the JuiceBox? How much faster will it be? Is it better/cheaper to have it hardwired (Clipper Creek) or plugged in (JuiceBox/NEMA 14-50)?

In other news, I just got my first check engine light :shock: . I did some googling and it seems like a very common thing among US REx owners. I got the i3 because my MINI was just bought back by BMW for having multiple engine issues. I'm trying not to get worried but its all too sudden.

 

[jhu321]

So I went down the juicebox route originally. I think they make a quality product but only if your voltage is a true 240 and not a 208. I live in a high rise and the juicebox refused to recognize that it was on a level 2 feed because my power feed isn't "clean". Due to line sag. My voltage varies from 216 to 198V.

Apparently the software in juicebox doesn't like that wide a variety of voltage, it would refuse to boot up at all. I went through 4 round trips of shipping back and forth to emotorworks and spent a good 2 months before they just refuse to even respond to my emails. In the end I had to do a credit card charge back to them after I've shipped it back to them per their instruction and they refused to refund my money.

After I gave up on the juicebox, I went and bought a custom built openevse that is dynamic enough to do both 120-208-240 and allows me to tell it dynamically how many amps max usage + voltage meters and power meters and that was compatible and works great. Also it is so much more portable. Net net I've been very happy with my openevse solution, it's low cost and gives you a lot of control and features not available through the standard commercial packages. I didn't buy a kit to assembly myself, I bought it from a guy who does the assembly and customization professionally. I can forward his contact if you are interested, pm me.

Good luck on your evse endeavors.

 

[Jeffj]

The difference is pretty stark between the 2 units you listed. The CC unit will only deliver 3.8 kW max charge, while the Juicebox can deliver up to 9.6 kW - Note that the i3 can only consume up to 7.2 kW. The CC unit only requires a 20 amp circuit, while the Juicebox can operate on anything from a 20 amp up to a 50 amp (you set the max amperage on the Juicebox). If you are running a new circuit, this is probably a moot point as the the extra cost to run a 50 amp vs. a 20 amp is minimal. If you already have a 20 amp circuit, then you could use either.

In plain English, the CC unit will charge the car from empty in something like 6-7 hours. The Juicebox (or any other 7 kW+ EVSE) will charge the car from empty in maybe 3.5 hours. Only you can decide if that difference is material to you. The Juicebox also comes with WiFi, and the ability schedule, control, pause, resume, etc. If you like data and control, its a good thing.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The current i3 maxes out at 30-32A, depending on the voltage applied (if it can get there), so a unit capable of supplying more won't help. The 2017 i3 will have a bigger battery, but there is no guarantee that it will also have a larger on-board charging circuit...it may just take longer to recharge. Eventually, though, it is probable that cars will accept a higher charge rate. That may not be true if the CCS network gets significantly better in the future, but nobody knows for now. But, even then, you won't 'need' a bigger EVSE, as they are independent of the vehicle's max charge rate.

While the cost of the EVSE itself doesn't go up by huge amounts as its maximum charge rate does, the impact of installing one can. For that type of device, US code limits the device's wiring and protection device (often a circuit breaker) to 80% of the available power. That means that if you hard-wire a 30/32A device, you can use a 40A circuit. But, as has ben said many times on this forum, if you want to plug it in, your wiring must match the type of receptacle, and there are NO 40A receptacles, so you must install a 50A circuit if you want to plug the thing in which would let you use up to a 40A EVSE (40/50=80%). Consider, though, that you may not have a huge amount of spare power in your panel when deciding what you want or need. In my case, 40A was pushing my limits on what my power panel and home as designed for with existing loads. If you needed to replace the panel and upgrade your whole power lead to install a bigger EVSE, it can start to get VERY costly. In some places, even though you may not use it, a bigger power feed may cause your base electrical customer service rate to be higher (demand fee), so even though you don't use a lot more, you'd be paying more every month in addition to the electricity you consume.

 

[alohart]

But, as has ben said many times on this forum, if you want to plug it in, your wiring must match the type of receptacle, and there are NO 40A receptacles, so you must install a 50A circuit if you want to plug the thing in which would let you use up to a 40A EVSE (40/50=80%).

We just remodeled our kitchen. A new German appliance with a 30 amp plug was rated as requiring a 20 amp circuit minimum. The wiring for its circuit was rated for 20 amps maximum. The electrician installed a 30 amp receptacle and a 20 amp circuit breaker. I questioned him about installing a 30 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.

He told me that the electrical code required that the wiring and receptacle be rated sufficient for the circuit breaker rating. Either wiring or a receptacle that is rated to pass more current than the circuit breaker does not violate code.

So at least in Honolulu, installing a 50 amp receptacle on a 40 amp circuit for one's 32 amp EVSE does not violate code. If any other device were plugged into this circuit and pulled 40 amps, the circuit breaker would trip thus protecting the wiring.

 

[Elettrico]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and very detailed explanations.

In my case the EVSE will be mounted inside the garage on a side wall, probably about 1.5 feet away from the garage door. My electric panel is probably another foot next to that. What makes it more expensive about using a 50 amp circuit? the cable? its only 1-2 feet worth. I have decided to get the JuiceBox 40a. I was at Lowe's yesterday looking at prices for the install and the 50 amp breaker is about $9 and the 14-50 plug is about $30 including a box rated as outdoor/water resistant.

My next door neighbor is a certified electrician and a friend of mine so he's not going to charge me to install it, just the price of the parts needed.

Now, the thing that is making me worry is how to close the garage door with the cable underneath it. I'm doing it now with the OUC and its fine but the 40 amp J1772 cable on the JuiceBox look a lot thicker. Ideally I would mount the EVSE outside the garage but the community I live in is extra picky about the outside look of the homes and I don't know if it'll fly. Electric Motor Werks lists a $29 upgrade called "flexible J1772 Cable" that is apparently thinner and more flexible than the standard one. They also go on to say that it is not UL Listed but has been tested to handle the power output of the EVSE. Its a tempting upgrade but, is it smart to go for it?

 

[jadnashuanh]

What I did was drilled a 4.5" hole through the wall, put a piece of 4" PVC with a cut down coupler on each end to lock it in place, then have a swinging mailbox on the outside to cover it up. The cord comes out from underneath the mailbox which is on a hinge. I cut two foam plugs, one with a slot to allow for when the cord is installed, and one when it is not in the hole to plug up the hole. That size is large enough to easily pass the plug through the opening. It's never a good idea to compress a cable, especially repeatedly. The other big thing is that you should NOT leave the cord coiled up when it is being used...it generates inductance and thus heat, and could eventually damage things. Plus, it lowers the voltage to the vehicle because inductance functions like a resister. This is all usually covered in the owner's manual, but most people don't read it.

Two things on code...first thing is it must be installed per the manufacturers' instructions, and at least on the ones I've looked at, they all require what I said...a CB and cable to match the plug installed. Just like you shouldn't put a 20A plug on a 15A circuit because you never know what someone might plug into it, you shouldn't put a 50A plug (the next smaller one is rated at 30A) on a circuit that doesn't protect the wiring that matches it. Now, if your local inspector passes it, he probably shouldn't have. FWIW, the CB is to protect the WIRING, not the device connected.

The gauge of the wiring makes a big difference on the cost, but if it's only a few feet, who really cares if it costs $10 verses $5? Now, if it is hardwired, all you have to account for is the 80% rules since nothing else would easily be attached to that line.

 

[alohart]

Two things on code...first thing is it must be installed per the manufacturers' instructions, and at least on the ones I've looked at, they all require what I said...a CB and cable to match the plug installed.

Our electrician explained that the CB is key because it protects everything downstream. As long as everything downstream is rated at or better than the CB, there is no code violation. So a 50 amp receptacle protected by a 40 amp circuit breaker conforms with the local electrical code and is not dangerous.

Just like you shouldn't put a 20A plug on a 15A circuit because you never know what someone might plug into it, you shouldn't put a 50A plug (the next smaller one is rated at 30A) on a circuit that doesn't protect the wiring that matches it. Now, if your local inspector passes it, he probably shouldn't have. FWIW, the CB is to protect the WIRING, not the device connected.

In our kitchen, the 20 amp wiring is protected by the 20 amp CB. The receptacle is rated at 30 amps and is also protected by the CB, but with the receptacle's higher capacity, it would never be in danger. If our oven with its 30 amp plug draws more than 16 amps continuously (80% of 20 amps), the CB would trip thus protecting the 20 amp wiring.

Similarly, if an EVSE circuit has wiring rated at 40 amps and a 50 amp receptacle, both protected by a 40 amp circuit breaker, and a device plugged into the 50 amp receptacle continuously draws more than 32 amps (80% of 40 amps), the CB would trip protecting the wiring.

Having a receptacle rated higher than its CB could lead to more frequent CB tripping because devices that exceed the CB's capacity could be plugged in. But that's not dangerous because the CB would protect the wiring, so why would the electrical code prohibit this?

 

[jadnashuanh]

Code has two parts, one, as I said, calls for the device to be installed per the manufacturer's instructions, and look at the installation instructions for the majority of EVSE's out there...for a 40A device and even a 30A device, connected via a plug, they call for a 50A circuit to match the 50A receptacle at the end. Second, the rating on say a 20A receptacle may have 30A pass-through, but nothing plugged into it should draw more than 20A, otherwise, it wouldn't be UL approved.

The CB is there to protect the wiring. While yes, you could put a 50A plug at the end, and wire it for 40A IF THE DEVICE YOU'RE ATTACHING ALLOWS IT, you're just asking for someone to actually plug a 50A device into it, and have things trip. It's not a good practice. Later on, someone seeing a 50A plug then trying to plug in say their welder because it will fit, and then it won't, you're just asking for hassles. You won't burn the house down if the CB matches the wiring, but the convenience factor is potentially major. Being short-sighted putting a 50A receptacle and only feeding it with 40A wiring is just kind of cheap. You never know what you may want to plug into that thing later on. A good portion of the cost is the labor, and it is best practice to match the wiring to the plug so there are no questions later. You may not be the owner forever.

 

[alohart]

Being short-sighted putting a 50A receptacle and only feeding it with 40A wiring is just kind of cheap. You never know what you may want to plug into that thing later on. A good portion of the cost is the labor, and it is best practice to match the wiring to the plug so there are no questions later.

In an ideal world, you're correct. But many apartments like ours and smaller or older homes have only 100 amp electrical service. Our building department would not approve an electrical permit for more than a 40 amp EVSE circuit after considering all electrical loads in our apartment. Thus, our only options were hardwiring our EVSE to a 40 amp circuit, downgrading to a 30 amp circuit with a 30 amp receptacle, or installing a 50 amp receptacle on a 40 amp circuit. Our 40 amp EVSE has a 50 amp plug and minimal installation instructions that advise hiring an electrician.

With our EVSE in our unsecured parking space, we wanted to be able to remove it easily when we travelled, so we did not want to hardwire it. We wanted the option of charging at the maximum rate supported by our i3, so we didn't want the install less than a 40 amp circuit. Fortunately, the National Electrical Code Section 210.21(B)(1) allows the installation of a 50 amp receptacle on a 40 amp circuit: "Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."

The ideal solution would have been a 50 amp receptacle on a 50 amp circuit, impossible in our situation, so we chose the next best option.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Code requires two things: follow the manufacturer's instructions and follow the code. FWIW, the Clipper Creek EVSE I have specifically requires installation of a 50A circuit when using their 30/32A plug-in devices (40A for hardwired, which is what I chose since I, too, did not have an excess capacity in my panel), so that would trump the code. This is what lead me to believe it was required. I stand corrected, but still feel it is not a great idea to have a 50A receptacle on a 40A circuit. Say you wanted to install a 40A plug-in EVSE...it may not trip the breaker, but would not provide the 125% (80% rule) current capacity required by code. Since you do not need a code inspection to just plug in a new device, you could easily run into problems down the road. ANd, even on the current i3, even if you tried to plug in that 40A device, since the car won't draw more, it would still work, but would not be to code. Now, if the 2017 i3 ups the capacity of the on-board charging circuits to match the larger battery pack, that same situation would be problematic if you just had swapped that plug-in 32A device for a 40A one.

 

[alohart]

Say you wanted to install a 40A plug-in EVSE...it may not trip the breaker, but would not provide the 125% (80% rule) current capacity required by code.

Ours is a 40 amp EVSE, but I have configured it so that its maximum output obeys the 80% rule for our EVSE circuit. If I had an EV that could charge at 40 amps, I could configure our EVSE to deliver 40 amps, but that should trip the circuit breaker, if not immediately, then after heating up a bit. The circuit wiring would be protected, so no damage should occur.

Since you do not need a code inspection to just plug in a new device, you could easily run into problems down the road.

That describes the situation with any circuit that is delivering more current than its circuit breaker allows.

Of course, if a circuit breaker is defective and doesn't trip when it should, not allowing a 50 amp load on a 40 amp circuit via a 50 amp receptacle would be safer. But if a circuit breaker is defective on a 40 amp circuit with a hardwired 32 amp EVSE, an EVSE short-circuit could also damage circuit wiring.

 

[jadnashuanh]

In the same context, though, the code allows a 15A plug on a 20A circuit, but does not allow a 20A plug on a 15A circuit. If there are valid reasons for one, they should apply to the other. IOW, not allowing a receptacle designed and capable of higher current than the circuit may be able to supply. FWIW, a typical CB may run for quite awhile overloaded before it trips. IT depends on the amount of the overload and the time.

Anyway...follow the device's installation instructions, then the code, and you should be safe until you try to plug something else in!

 

[TOEd]

"Problems down the road" is pretty much guaranteed. When was the last time you had an electrician in to inspect and maintain your wiring? Electrical connections become loose over time due to heating/cooling. Loose connections on switches/receptacles/breakers cause heating which causes oxidation which causes resistance which causes more heating. It is a vicious cycle. What about aluminium wiring in homes? Mice and other rodents sharpening their teeth? Installation by people who don't know what they are doing? So as a ev manufacturer do you supply a L1 charger that draws 8, 10 or 12 amps knowing that the owner may plug into bad wiring? You already know the answer to that question. Code compliance is a good start. But it is only a start.

 

[macronencer]

Hi everyone! I'm on the brink of ordering an i3 REx. Hoping to have mine by Jan/Feb 2017.

 

[Norval]

HI everyone!
the I3 has just been launched here (well, 3 months ago) sales are slow, due to a pending government incentive to own an electric, or plug-in hybrid vehicle. As usual, politics always gets in the way, and it might take more than a year to see any real incentive for the public. Still, electric companies are starting to install public charging stations, and some malls and places are starting to prepare to do so.
For the time being, sales are about, 1-2 cars per month, which is not so bad if you considered that is the first real electric car on the market, and also that people are always afraid of such a new thing, and, of course, waiting for the tax incentive to become a reality.

We got the new 94H versions for the country. Our climate all year round (19 to 32 Celsius in the city) gives it the best performance for the battery. Have been achieving up to 230 Km on one charge. The strong foot guys are getting about 180 km on each charge.
People on the street still look at you like an alien that just landed next to you. Usual questions come when you are at the supermarket, or in any mall. I do take time to explain as much as possible about the car, but still people see it as a weird thing..
Well, guess only with time it will become a regular sight on the streets.

 

[leocelli]

Hi!

My name is Leonardo, I'm from Brazil and I have one i3 Rex since april/2016.
"XOK" (i3's nickname) have 13.000 km with 11.000 km pure electric conduction.
I think that is a good number because Brazil is a continental country and we don"t have fast charge infrastructure...

Drive electric!

 

[gt1]

Leonardo, welcome to the forum!

 

[LCTRNZ]

I just took receipt of my 2017 i3 BEV. After test driving a series of other cars (except the Telsa), I am pleased with my selection of an electric car that happens to be a BMW. Driving a car that does not use gas, that has the feel of a BMW behind the wheel, is exhilarating.

Can anyone explain to me when using the level 1 charger at home (my level 2 will be ordered soon), must I select Maximum or Reduced or Low charge setting? Also, how do I know to select Reduced or Maximum when using public Level 2 chargers?

Thanks for your time - I know this is a newbie question but my local BMW dealer genius quit and no-one can help me there. -Jason