Recharge rates Maximum, reduced and something else.

[Denreltub2]

Had my i3 for a few days and am still trying to learn all the new stuff. There are 3 settings for the charge rate. Maximum, reduced and some other lower level with which the car came configured. I infer from the on-board owners manual that it could be dangerous to go Maximum. The table that is suppose to help me determine danger makes no sense to me.

I would like to set my level 1 charging to maximum. I have a standard 110 V 20 amp circuit into which I plug the level 1 charger that came with the car. Will I damage the BMW Level 1 charger by going to Maximum? I can't wait for two days to recharge the car.

 

[Boatguy]

Set it to maximum for level 1 and 2.

I'm charging off an unknown, but GFI protected, 110v outlet in a rented condo. Occasionally plugging in the cable to the car trips the GFI, but a quick reset and then it charges to full with no problems.

A 20a circuit will more than support Level 1 at Max.

 

[KurtEndress]

The 120 volt level 1 charging rates are 12, 9, and 6 amps at maximum, reduced and low settings. On a standard 15 Amp 120V circuit the maximum 12 Amp setting is pushing things a bit, but not really any worse than a toaster, blow dryer or space heater. Since you've probably never used a load like that for so long on the circuit you'll plug the car into a little caution is warranted. Make sure the plug isn't overheating due to some weak connection in the socket.

 

[AviatorMan]

The 120 volt level 1 charging rates are 12, 9, and 6 amps at maximum, reduced and low settings. On a standard 15 Amp 120V circuit the maximum 12 Amp setting is pushing things a bit, but not really any worse than a toaster, blow dryer or space heater. Since you've probably never used a load like that for so long on the circuit you'll plug the car into a little caution is warranted. Make sure the plug isn't overheating due to some weak connection in the socket.

I think this has all been stated elsewhere, but the NEC (US electrical code) states that a continuous load can't exceed 80% of the over-current protection. So if you have a circuit breaker or fuse of 15 amps, the max allowable would be 12 amps. If a 20 amp circuit, then the max load is 16 amps. Assuming you are in the US, and it would help to know that, you are fine.
BTW, if there is a problem it is a safety problem that could lead to a fire. I don't want to be alarmist and the odds are slim, but the most common failure point is the receptacle (outlet) itself, which can overheat, arc, and fail in all sorts of interesting ways.

Two easy ways to check this, first, the plug should go into the outlet firmly. If it is a bit of a struggle to get the plug in, great. If it is loose, if the plug starts to slip back out, if there is any wiggle, replace the outlet, and make the wire up to the outlet using screws on the side and do not connect the wire to the outlet using a push-the-wire-in-the-hole type outlet.

Another good check, charge the car for an hour or more and then see if the plug/outlet is beyond warm. If it's hot, there is a problem. You can also check the fuse or breaker at that point, just put your hand on it and check for heat. Warm is OK.

 

[Denreltub2]

Thank you. I am jumping to maximum.

 

[ultraturtle]

I would like to set my level 1 charging to maximum. I have a standard 110 V 20 amp circuit into which I plug the level 1 charger that came with the car. Will I damage the BMW Level 1 charger by going to Maximum? I can't wait for two days to recharge the car.

If you truly have a 20 amp circuit, it will probably be no problem (assuming all other loads on that circuit total less than 4 amps, which is likely).

You might want to actually check the breaker, as most circuits in North America are actually 15 amp. If so, you have to ensure that there are no other loads on the circuit if you want to charge at the "Maximum" rate of 12 amps. If there are any other loads on a 15 amp circuit, you will need to select one of the lower rates using the menu in the car to ensure the maximum total continuous draw never exceeds 12 amps for the circuit.

In no case do you have to worry about damaging the BMW Level 1 EVSE. It is designed for maximum rate charging. The lower rates available in your car are designed to help you to stay within the limitations of your house wiring (i.e. to prevent tripping breakers).

 

[jadnashuanh]

Level 2 can go up to 30/32A (depends on the spec you use, in the USA, 30A is the same as 32A in the Euro spec). But, if you have the DC fast charge option, it can go up to more. The charging logic in the car will protect the batteries, and then you have the 8-year, 100,000-mile warranty (in the USA anyways) that says the battery will hold at least 70% of the charge as indicated by the diagnostics. The current (and future, I'm pretty sure) charging logic adjusts the max charging rate for the temperature, which is the big killer of a battery...add that to the built-in battery conditioning system, you really should not have any issues using maximum. Now, it's slightly possible that you might get a little bit more power into the batteries if you did it slower, but that's just a guess, and it would probably be hard to measure if you did.

 

[brianives]

Wonder if I could tag on a public charging question to this chain. I recently used a public charger (Chargepoint). This was my second public charge event (my first one was a disaster where I was charged $18 for about $1 of electricity because I stayed at the spot for more than 3 hours - and this at my own dealer, BMW Seattle! Chargepoint did agree to refund me about $13, which I appreciate). I have my level 1 and level 2 settings at Max. I had looked up these level 2 charging stations on line at the Chargenow.chargepoint.com site and they are 6.6kw chargers at a nice new Group Health medical clinic in Puyallup, WA. When I plugged in, after a brief build up time period, my rate of charge was shown as 4.9kw. Slightly disappointing. But way more disappointing when a Leaf pulls in beside me and plugs in and is soon getting 5.9kw! The owner said he'd had the Leaf for a year and a half. I had to come back later to add more charge, used the exact same charger that the Leaf used and I only got 4.5kw! How is the year-and-a-half-old Leaf getting a faster charge than I am getting? And why am I only pulling 4.5-4.9kw from a 6.6kw charger?
The positive is that the charging was free. Thank you Group Health. But the charging rate made a big difference to me at the time. I had driven 45 miles from home for a sporting event. Had only 1/2 hour to charge and only needed about 13-14 miles of added range to feel comfortable getting home (ecopro+ both ways). I didn't get enough charge to feel comfortable in the 1/2 hour so came back for another 15 minutes of charge before heading home (and made it home with 4 miles of range remaining). I can't help but thinking that had I been charging as fast as the Leaf was, I would not have had to waste the additional time for a second charge.
Anyone have any input on this?

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, the i3 has some fairly sophisticated battery charge logic, heating and cooling for the battery pack, and consider when you first pull up, things may be a bit hotter, and the car will adjust the charge rate so as not to damage the batteries. The charging system in the Leaf isn't as sophisticated, and while that vehicle may have accepted a higher rate, it may not have been doing his battery life any good. Leaf did have some fairly severe issues in hot areas like Arizona, and they have worked on their battery conditioning and charging, but the i3 still is probably more sophisticated.

This is all subjective. It would take a more thorough understanding of the charging logic in the i3 and what your exact parameters were when you attempted to charge to figure out if it was 'normal' or an error. Then, also consider that what level you can charge at is also determined by the EVSE...it sends out a signal that announces to the vehicle how much power it can provide, and the car adjusts so it doesn't exceed that. The EVSE may not be calibrated properly, and was lying - the car won't ask for more if the thing says it's not available, regardless of what may show up on its specifications.

BMW has identified an issue with the charging on the production i3s that did not show up on the prototypes for whatever reason. It may be that the prototypes were more hand produced (likely), and even just the component layout on the circuit boards was slightly different such that the production versions, even if using the same parts, has an error (maybe a slightly too narrow patch on the circuit board is overheating that may have been a jumper wire on the prototypes). We'll probably never know, but the good thing, is BMW has identified the problem, and is rushing to get new stuff built...the software mods were put into place to help keep everyone going until those are ready, which is likely a combination of hardware and software.

 

[Blue20]

FWIW, the i3 has some fairly sophisticated battery charge logic, ....

May be. But for L1 and the new software for L2, the power in take is so slow that the charging is a straight line. The logic won't kick in.

 

[LivingBetterThurEV]

...recently used a public charger (Chargepoint). This was my second public charge event (my first one was a disaster where I was charged $18 for about $1 of electricity because I stayed at the spot for more than 3 hours - and this at my own dealer, BMW Seattle! Chargepoint did agree to refund me about $13, which I appreciate). I have my level 1 and level 2 settings at Max. I had looked up these level 2 charging stations on line at the Chargenow.chargepoint.com site and they are 6.6kw chargers at a nice new Group Health medical clinic in Puyallup, WA. When I plugged in, after a brief build up time period, my rate of charge was shown as 4.9kw. Slightly disappointing. But way more disappointing when a Leaf pulls in beside me and plugs in and is soon getting 5.9kw! The owner said he'd had the Leaf for a year and a half. I had to come back later to add more charge, used the exact same charger that the Leaf used and I only got 4.5kw! How is the year-and-a-half-old Leaf getting a faster charge than I am getting? And why am I only pulling 4.5-4.9kw from a 6.6kw charger?
The positive is that the charging was free. Thank you Group Health. But the charging rate made a big difference to me at the time. I had driven 45 miles from home for a sporting event. Had only 1/2 hour to charge and only needed about 13-14 miles of added range to feel comfortable getting home (ecopro+ both ways). I didn't get enough charge to feel comfortable in the 1/2 hour so came back for another 15 minutes of charge before heading home (and made it home with 4 miles of range remaining). I can't help but thinking that had I been charging as fast as the Leaf was, I would not have had to waste the additional time for a second charge.
Anyone have any input on this?

Exactly - straight to the point of what was said on other discussions. Nice thing with ChargePoint has is the ability to dowload a CSV file (for a spreadsheet) and see exactly what charging levels you received over time at different stations. My new i3 max's out at 4.7kW rate - totally unacceptable. Even the dealer demo units I tested at the various public chargers were over 6kW using the same charger - still very low.
Side story - Burdick BMW in Syracuse, NY has a outside Chargepoint charger near their service entrance - that clearly displays a cost of $1.50 per kWh. I was told by sales it is to bill non-Burbick customers (you would have to ask service to walk outside and swipe their own internal card to get free charging). Not nice since others in the area are free.
My winow sticker states "..AC Fast Charging (7.4kW)" - therefore I paid for and expect close to 7.4 rate where the external charging station supports it. I test drove many other EV vehicles - and compared their sales quote on the window to what I received. On delivery - I immediately informed service of expectations - and they agree - and noted what it may be December before BMW has a true fix.
I still like the BMW i3 way better than the Leaf (even with the Leaf's 100 plus improvements starting in 2013. I totally expect BMW will resolve this issue in short order. Yes the total re-charge time is making a big impact on satisfaction, where and how we travel using the i3.

 

[Chrisn]

My winow sticker states "..AC Fast Charging (7.4kW)" - therefore I paid for and expect close to 7.4 rate where the external charging station supports it. I test drove many other EV vehicles - and compared their sales quote on the window to what I received. ........ I totally expect BMW will resolve this issue in short order. Yes the total re-charge time is making a big impact on satisfaction, where and how we travel using the i3.

Exactly. Thank you. For a particular round trip that I do 2-3 times a week. full-speed L2 charging at my destination (7+ v 5+) would get me home all EV, but instead I have to burn gas for the last five miles. Not a huge deal, but kind of a bummer. A bit silly, I know, but I sometimes do a 15 mile detour to do a DC charge so I can get home without burning gas and dealing with REX limitations (I want to blast up hills with reckless abandon).

 

[mindmachine]

Wow $1.50/kwh what country do you live in. I know the USA California and you got raped at $1.50/kwh. We don't have a lot of locations to charge at but here in the Midwest charge point locations usually cost $.49 per kwh on level 2 charging. May as well fill up the Rex as it would be cheaper even for me at $.49/kwh.

 

[jasleinstein]

Has anyone actually measured maximum 110v charging rate? Due to the charging issue of the KLE I may be forced to charge on 110v as my tesla and the BMW need to share charge time, and they can't both get done on 220v in my charge window time. I need every kw possible to use 110v.

I was on the phone today with Clipper Creek wanting to order the HCS-20 charger. They told me they thought the i3 would only charge at 1.4 kW on 110v. I have a 25 amp dedicated circuit but don't want to waste money of the car won't charge at the higher rate. I hear BMW say the car "might" charge at a higher rate, but frankly after the KLE software setback and incorrect statements " In some cases the charging rate may be reduced by up to 30%" when in fact it all charging is capped at 5kW, I am a bit gun shy.

Has anyone actually measured maximum charging rate on 110V?

thanks

 

[ultraturtle]

Has anyone actually measured maximum charging rate on 110V?

My Occasional Use Cable draws a maximum of 1.39 kW from a 120 volt outlet (11.8 amps x 118 volts), so the battery probably charges at no more than 1.18 kW, considering the (EPA measured) 85% charger efficiency.

L1 (120 volt) EVSEs tend to be less efficient than the L2 (240 volt) EVSEs the EPA likely used in their testing, so energy to the battery is probably a bit less than 1.18 kW.

 

[KurtEndress]

Yes, recharging on 120 volt is much less efficient. I charged from 58% SOC last night in 8.5 hours. That's about 5% per hour or 930 watts. I have the L1 charge level set to high (12 A) but need to use a 25 foot extension cord which probably adds a couple percent loss even though its a heavy duty cord. As it's drawing about 1400 watts from the wall that's a charging efficiency of 66%.

If you're going to be using more than 60% of the battery daily you won't be able to recharge at 120V overnight in 12 hours. You'd need another 240 volt L2 charger in that case.

Do you really put so many miles on the Tesla that you need to recharge on L2 each night? Maybe you can alternate between which car gets the 240V and which uses 120V.

 

[mindmachine]

Electric supply apparently varies marginally, here on my occasional use EVSE that came with the car I am drawing 122 volts at a full 12 amps, but that isn't much more than what ultraturtle reported. The EVSE that came with the car is made by clipper creek here in the USA. I also have a Clipper Creek 240 volt 20 amp LCS 25P which charges at 4.8kwh and that gives me a full charge from empty in about 5 hrs 15 min. I went with the LCS25p since I had wiring in the garage already that would work safely, otherwise I would have had to run a new line from my main box. I figured I could live with the extra 1hour and 45 minutes over the max charging rate.
Now that the charging rate has been reduced I am charging at 4.8 kwh and not loosing any time, still I hope they get it fixed so we can charge faster at public level 2 locations with the higher power ESEV cap[able of the full 7.2 kwh.

 

[sc68z28]

.... I also have a Clipper Creek 240 volt 20 amp LCS 25P which charges at 4.8kwh and that gives me a full charge from empty in about 5 hrs 15 min. I went with the LCS25p since I had wiring in the garage already that would work safely, otherwise I would have had to run a new line from my main box. I figured I could live with the extra 1hour and 45 minutes over the max charging rate.

Older thread found while searching the answer to a "charge setting" question.

I ordered the CC LCS25 yesterday for some of the same reasons as above, also portability for use at different locations.
All locations will have a 30 amp 14-30 plug.

What charge setting should I use? Is Max ok?

My I3 was manufactured in mid Oct 2014, so I'm not sure if the KLE is the new one. Or if it even makes a difference in this case.

Thanks...
---Bill.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The only reason to use a lower setting is if the circuit would be overloaded because the EVSE and other things are on the same circuit. The EVSE reports how much power it can provide, and the car will only use up to that amount...IOW, using less than max charge rate setting in the car is only to prevent tripping breakers or fuses because that individual circuit may be overloaded if the EVSE and whatever else is on that circuit would be more than the circuit can handle. As long as the EVSE is working right, and the i3 isn't broken, max all of the time if the circuit the EVSE is on is not subject to being overloaded because of other things - the car won't overload it.

 

[sc68z28]

Thanks Jim,
That's what I was thinking, the dealer was no help, and the owners manual was vague.
Just wanted to be sure, so glad I found this forum. Been reading all day!

---Bill.