New Owner Heating Not Working

[UpNorth]

Hello all

I’ve just got my BMW i3s. It has 48,000 miles.

The heating was working when I test drove the car and when I collected it. But now on day 2 I can’t get it to work.

The dealer said he wasn’t sure if the heating was working but it was definitely working when I looked at the car. I thought maybe he had it on Eco Pro plus which reduces the heating.

I think it has a heat pump because it has an option to activate the Auxiliary climate control.

Anyway I just can’t make heat come out. Am I pressing the wrong buttons?

Many thanks

Chris

 

[Mondomensch]

Here's the BMW video of you haven't seen it:

BMW i3 climate controls

Turning on the front defroster should make a noticable warm airflow up the windshield quite quickly.

 

[UpNorth]

Here's the BMW video of you haven't seen it:

BMW i3 climate controls

Turning on the front defroster should make a noticable warm airflow up the windshield quite quickly.

Thanks that is helpfully clear. Unfortunately adjusting the settings doesn’t produce any warm air from the vents today.

Shame really. It was blowing nice and hot yesterday.

Chris

 

[mojo]

Have you tried tapping the "preheat" option within the myBMW app (the fan symbol) while the car is parked up, to see if you get any heat using that option?

Unfortunately the heating elements in the cab heater have a reputation for going intermittent before failing altogether. It may help to have the car's diagnostic codes read, because if the heating elements are failing, you will get specific fault codes to that effect.

 

[UpNorth]

Have you tried tapping the "preheat" option within the myBMW app (the fan symbol) while the car is parked up, to see if you get any heat using that option?

Unfortunately the heating elements in the cab heater have a reputation for going intermittent before failing altogether. It may help to have the car's diagnostic codes read, because if the heating elements are failing, you will get specific fault codes to that effect.

Thanks that’s a helpful suggestion. Unfortunately preheating from the app produces no heat. It’s absolutely stone cold no matter what I try.

I’ve booked the car in for diagnostics at my local approved BMW garage. They tell me they are confident in being able to diagnose the issue. And are approved to service the i3.

Does anyone know how much it costs to replace the heating element?

Thanks

Chris

 

[mojo]

It won't be cheap, unfortunately. In the UK, the retail price of the part alone is over £700. If you take a look at Wisely you should find their standard price list, which includes that specific repair. Obviously, a BMW main dealer will be significantly more expensive when labour charges are added.

Make sure that whoever investigates it for pays close attention to the diagnostic codes - there is at least one other fault (in the cable that connects from the heater to other modules in the car) that stops the heater from working, and allegedly the thermostat on the heater modules may be prone to failure too. Frustratingly (and some would say typically, for BMW) you cannot buy a replacement thermostat as a separate part.

 

[UpNorth]

It won't be cheap, unfortunately. In the UK, the retail price of the part alone is over £700. If you take a look at Wisely you should find their standard price list, which includes that specific repair. Obviously, a BMW main dealer will be significantly more expensive when labour charges are added.

Make sure that whoever investigates it for pays close attention to the diagnostic codes - there is at least one other fault (in the cable that connects from the heater to other modules in the car) that stops the heater from working, and allegedly the thermostat on the heater modules may be prone to failure too. Frustratingly (and some would say typically, for BMW) you cannot buy a replacement thermostat as a separate part.

Thanks for that advice. Very helpful.

Wisely Automotive quote £896 to replace the auxiliary heater. Is that what the heater is called? I thought that was what the heat pump is called.

Wisely Automotive Repair Pricelist

Wisely have a wait of 3 months for repairs in Leeds. Hopefully my local garage will not charge me too much more than that.

 

[alohart]

I think it has a heat pump because it has an option to activate the Auxiliary climate control.

Enter the VIN of your i3 at M Decoder and look for option 4T9 Heat Pump.

The heat pump provides cabin heat above -10 ºC/14 ºF. At lower temperatures, the auxiliary flow heater (electric resistance elements) provides cabin heat. The cabin heat coolant pump is part of the auxiliary flow heater. If this pump isn't working, heat transferred by the heat pump can't be circulated through the cabin heater heat exchanger, so no heat. I would think that if this pump is working but the electric resistance elements of the auxiliary flow heater aren't working, the heat pump should still provide cabin heat. However, maybe not.

 

[mojo]

I would think that if this pump is working but the electric resistance elements of the auxiliary flow heater aren't working, the heat pump should still provide cabin heat. However, maybe not.

This is quite a hard one to pin down from BMW's documentation, and understanding may not be helped by the process of translating from German.

The heat pump is in series with the electrical heater, and its effect is that, under the right conditions, it pre-heats the coolant, thus reducing the additional heat that the electrical heater needs to add to get the coolant up to a usable temperature. But I don't *think* (from reading the BMW US documentation) the heat pump on its own can raise coolant temperature enough to produce useful heat from the passenger compartment heat exchanger (except perhaps under exceptional conditions).

In fairness, the writers of the BMW US documentation acknowledge that it's a hard feature to describe in detail, by including the words (in bold):

The heat pump is not an individual component, but a complex adaptation of a refrigerant circuit with an equally complex control structure.

 

[David Briggs]

Hi, I had the same issue. Luckily I was covered by a warranty so did not have to pay approx £1k to replace the heater. Having said that the new heater also did not work but upon investigation it had not been bled correctly and had an air bubble which prevents the heater working. If you're lucky might just be that.

 

[Bebee2025]

It won't be cheap, unfortunately. In the UK, the retail price of the part alone is over £700. If you take a look at Wisely you should find their standard price list, which includes that specific repair. Obviously, a BMW main dealer will be significantly more expensive when labour charges are added.

Make sure that whoever investigates it for pays close attention to the diagnostic codes - there is at least one other fault (in the cable that connects from the heater to other modules in the car) that stops the heater from working, and allegedly the thermostat on the heater modules may be prone to failure too. Frustratingly (and some would say typically, for BMW) you cannot buy a replacement thermostat as a separate part.

I have mine booked in with Wisely for a heater replacement - Just over £900 :-/

 

[alohart]

This is quite a hard one to pin down from BMW's documentation, and understanding may not be helped by the process of translating from German.

I just reread appropriate sections of BMW's I01 Heating and A/C Systems Technical Training Manual and agree with your conclusion. There are some crucial sentences that make no sense when read literally which might be a result of poor translations.

In a section describing the heat pump's operation:

"From an ambient temperature of -10 °C / 14 °F and a mean set-point value of the heating and air-conditioning system (22 °C / 71 °F in automatic function) an interior air temperature control without the additional heating is realized by the electric heating."

Huh?!

The next sentence is

"The heat pump is no longer operated below -10 °C / 14 °F."

I interpret the confusing sentence as:

"From an ambient temperature of -10 °C / 14 °F and a mean set-point value of the heating and air-conditioning system (22 °C / 71 °F in automatic function), the interior air temperature can be controlled without additional heating provided by the auxiliary flow heater."

However, if the set point is warmer, the auxiliary flow heater would have to help provide heat. It might also be turned on to accelerate cabin heat delivery initially until the set point temperature is reached (I didn't read that but am merely guessing). The refrigerant in the heat exchanger of our heat pump water heater can take more than 10 minutes to heat up enough to begin heating water when the heat pump turns on whereas the electric heating elements in our water heater begin heating water almost immediately after they're turned on.

I had made the incorrect assumption that because I had read that the heat pump doesn't operate below -10 °C/14 °F, that the auxiliary flow heater doesn't operate above -10 °C/14 °F in heat pump equipped i3's. However, I haven't read that anywhere, so it's almost certainly not true.

With the heat pump option, the coolant pump's speed is varied to distribute the coolant heat most efficiently from the heat pump refrigerant heat exchanger to the cabin air heat exchanger. Without the heat pump option, the coolant pump is either on at full speed or off, so the auxiliary flow heater heating level is set to one of 6 levels to distribute coolant heat most efficiently from auxiliary flow heater to the cabin air heat exchanger.

The coolant pump is a separate part with its own part number, so if it fails, it could be replaced without the auxiliary flow heater being replaced. I incorrectly assumed that it was an integral part of the auxiliary flow heater. A failed pump must not be the typical cause of no cabin heating whereas a failed auxiliary flow heater is. Unfortunately, the auxiliary flow heater is much more expensive than the coolant pump.

The heat pump is in series with the electrical heater, and its effect is that, under the right conditions, it pre-heats the coolant, thus reducing the additional heat that the electrical heater needs to add to get the coolant up to a usable temperature. But I don't *think* (from reading the BMW US documentation) the heat pump on its own can raise coolant temperature enough to produce useful heat from the passenger compartment heat exchanger (except perhaps under exceptional conditions).

I doubt that adding 36 parts, 7 kg, and 220 g of refrigerant to the refrigerant system to implement heat pump heating would be worthwhile if the heat pump weren't the principle source of heat most of the time. My guess is that it is the principle source of heat with the auxiliary flow heater providing additional heat in conditions when the heat pump can't provide enough heat (e.g., when the heater is first turned on or when the set point is quite high in cold weather). We might never know the real answer.

In fairness, the writers of the BMW US documentation acknowledge that it's a hard feature to describe in detail, by including the words (in bold):

The heat pump is not an individual component, but a complex adaptation of a refrigerant circuit with an equally complex control structure.

Comparing the 4 diagrams of the refrigerant circuits without the heat pump, with the heat pump in cooling mode, with the heat pump in heating mode, and with the heat pump in mixed mode really helped me understand the plumbing. The control structure is another matter…

 

[alohart]

I just found this in BMW's Technical Information System:

"The heat pump uses the heat from the ambient temperature to heat up the passenger compartment if ambient temperature are below 17 °C by means of the refrigerant circuit."

… and …

"If the passenger compartment is to be heated up, the components of the heat pump circuit are used differently according to the ambient conditions.

• At ambient temperatures below 17 °C, the heat pump circuit is used.

• At ambient temperatures greater than 17 °C, only the electric auxiliary heater is used."

Maybe the power required to run the compressor at its lowest speed is more than the power required to run the electric auxiliary heater at its lowest heat level.

 

[AndyFarmer]

Thanks for that advice. Very helpful.

Wisely Automotive quote £896 to replace the auxiliary heater. Is that what the heater is called? I thought that was what the heat pump is called.

Wisely Automotive Repair Pricelist

Wisely have a wait of 3 months for repairs in Leeds. Hopefully my local garage will not charge me too much more than that.

Cleevely EV Mobile have a roughly 6 weeks wait in Leeds and are very similar on price - £1047.84 all inclusive.

 

[UpNorth]

Update: I took the i3 out for a longer drive and it did finally heat up the cabin.

Almost like the heat pump is working which takes a while to scavenge enough heat.

But the electric heating element which would produce heat quickly is not working.

Anyway it’s at my garage for some diagnostics. I’ll soon find out.

 

[UpNorth]

I just reread appropriate sections of BMW's I01 Heating and A/C Systems Technical Training Manual and agree with your conclusion. There are some crucial sentences that make no sense when read literally which might be a result of poor translations.

In a section describing the heat pump's operation:

"From an ambient temperature of -10 °C / 14 °F and a mean set-point value of the heating and air-conditioning system (22 °C / 71 °F in automatic function) an interior air temperature control without the additional heating is realized by the electric heating."

Huh?!

The next sentence is

"The heat pump is no longer operated below -10 °C / 14 °F."

I interpret the confusing sentence as:

"From an ambient temperature of -10 °C / 14 °F and a mean set-point value of the heating and air-conditioning system (22 °C / 71 °F in automatic function), the interior air temperature can be controlled without additional heating provided by the auxiliary flow heater."

However, if the set point is warmer, the auxiliary flow heater would have to help provide heat. It might also be turned on to accelerate cabin heat delivery initially until the set point temperature is reached (I didn't read that but am merely guessing). The refrigerant in the heat exchanger of our heat pump water heater can take more than 10 minutes to heat up enough to begin heating water when the heat pump turns on whereas the electric heating elements in our water heater begin heating water almost immediately after they're turned on.

I had made the incorrect assumption that because I had read that the heat pump doesn't operate below -10 °C/14 °F, that the auxiliary flow heater doesn't operate above -10 °C/14 °F in heat pump equipped i3's. However, I haven't read that anywhere, so it's almost certainly not true.

With the heat pump option, the coolant pump's speed is varied to distribute the coolant heat most efficiently from the heat pump refrigerant heat exchanger to the cabin air heat exchanger. Without the heat pump option, the coolant pump is either on at full speed or off, so the auxiliary flow heater heating level is set to one of 6 levels to distribute coolant heat most efficiently from auxiliary flow heater to the cabin air heat exchanger.

The coolant pump is a separate part with its own part number, so if it fails, it could be replaced without the auxiliary flow heater being replaced. I incorrectly assumed that it was an integral part of the auxiliary flow heater. A failed pump must not be the typical cause of no cabin heating whereas a failed auxiliary flow heater is. Unfortunately, the auxiliary flow heater is much more expensive than the coolant pump.

I doubt that adding 36 parts, 7 kg, and 220 g of refrigerant to the refrigerant system to implement heat pump heating would be worthwhile if the heat pump weren't the principle source of heat most of the time. My guess is that it is the principle source of heat with the auxiliary flow heater providing additional heat in conditions when the heat pump can't provide enough heat (e.g., when the heater is first turned on or when the set point is quite high in cold weather). We might never know the real answer.

Comparing the 4 diagrams of the refrigerant circuits without the heat pump, with the heat pump in cooling mode, with the heat pump in heating mode, and with the heat pump in mixed mode really helped me understand the plumbing. The control structure is another matter…

I have just discovered that my does produce heat after a 10 minute drive. But nothing straight away.

 

[UpNorth]

Update.

My local BMW specialist garage (which had three i8s and one i3 in for services) quoted me £1330 for replacement of auxiliary heater.

I checked again with Wisely Automotive and they quoted £930.

I thought they had a 3 month wait but they had a slot in Leeds for Friday this week so I have gone with that.

Fingers crossed, Wisely will be able to sort my heating out on Friday.