i3 is over

[MarkNo]

The precursor to the i3 was the MINI E, of which 600 were made, and it informed the development and production of the i3.

The new Mini E Concept car that made its debut at the Frankfurt Auto Show in 2017 will apparently be in production for the 2019 model year, and the drivetrain will be from the i3.

So basically the i3 will morph into the Mini E, and the lineage will go on even after the i3 is discontinued (or not) after 2020?

The i3 is likely a more premium vehicle that the Mini E will be, and perhaps they will both evolve together on the same platform and continue to be offered in parallel by both Mini Cooper as well as BMW? Or the i3 will be retired and continue in spirit as the Mini E?

Either way, the i3 is not done!

 

[Wrightbenz]

Another $50k into the pot doesn’t matter. That’s doubling the price I would have to say it matters.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The faster u drive or charge or accelerate , the bigger battery helps.
and i got a EV, as i do like to drive it fast.....
If u drive slow, u r good to go with smaller....

At least for now, a larger battery means more weight which means that it takes more energy to accelerate or even maintain while trying to climb a grade. At some point, it becomes a losing proposition. The bigger hassle is that if you DO use all of that larger battery, it is generally quite time-consuming to recharge it, and it may not be possible at home. Even Tesla with their superchargers, it takes awhile to recharge one of their cars - far far more time than filling up a gas tank. New battery tech will continue to become more energy dense, keeping the weight down to a degree, and at least in theory, if not in practice (probably far more likely in Europe) the advent of the 350Kw fast charging systems new cars are likely to start offering will change things.

I still contend, an i3, used as designed, has plenty of battery capacity. The increased cost, weight, charging time of larger battery packs isn't useful. Now, if the car were designed for longer trips, obviously, a larger battery would be required, but IMHO, it would require a different vehicle design to be optimized for that task.

 

[psquare]

I still contend, an i3, used as designed, has plenty of battery capacity. The increased cost, weight, charging time of larger battery packs isn't useful. Now, if the car were designed for longer trips, obviously, a larger battery would be required, but IMHO, it would require a different vehicle design to be optimized for that task.

+1

My plan still is to drive our 2015 i3 REx (40k mi) 3-4 more years and then switch to a 2nd or 3rd battery gen used i3. Failing that, I might consider a battery swap in Germany, if still offered. But this depends on the overall state of the vehicle (suspension, seats, body etc). As said earlier, this is a rust-free, low maintenance car. If driven as intended, it should last for a long time. The i3 (and 225xe) combined save us about £1k per year in fuel - that's also not to be sniffed at.

 

[bwilson4web]

With the amount of long range battery Ev's being launched with great designs like the new Jaguar I Pace with a range of 480k who would pay the large dollars BMW requires for a very out of date BMW i3

Our BMW i3-REx is not a cuff link, tie, or pair of shoes. It is not a style but exceptionally cheap in the city with peer performance on the highway. But of course the honorable competition has not been asleep and improved technology continues to come out. It really comes down to architecture, plug-in hybrid or pure EV.

BEV

Intra-City range is available but charging, even with the proprietary SuperCharger network is still a big hit in block-to-block speed. If you are going on a weekend trip that requires charging enroute, overhead hours make such trips impractical.

PLUG-IN

The efficiency of EV in the city yet long legs of an ICE. It means effective for a get-away weekend with both speed and range. Since 2012, there has been a significant growth of plug-in models to choose from including the truly large Pacifica minivan. So we backed up our used 2014 BMW i3-REX with a more efficient, lower priced, new 2017 Prius Prime Plus.

When replacing a car, buyers only have the market of new and used cars to choose from ... a snapshot in time. Australians have a different car market and choices than the USA, Japan, and New Zealand. But everything comes down to the buyer's requirements. No high-speed, long range requirement, go BEV. But if you want to cover 1,000 miles (1,600 km) in a day, the plug-in hybrid is the way to go.

Bob Wilson

ps. I've shared this graph with my regular forums:

Source: www.hybridcars.com the dashboard reports

 

[Kiwi]

With the amount of long range battery Ev's being launched with great designs like the new Jaguar I Pace with a range of 480k who would pay the large dollars BMW requires for a very out of date BMW i3

Our BMW i3-REx is not a cuff link, tie, or pair of shoes. It is not a style but exceptionally cheap in the city with peer performance on the highway. But of course the honorable competition has not been asleep and improved technology continues to come out. It really comes down to architecture, plug-in hybrid or pure EV.

BEV

Intra-City range is available but charging, even with the proprietary SuperCharger network is still a big hit in block-to-block speed. If you are going on a weekend trip that requires charging enroute, overhead hours make such trips impractical.

PLUG-IN

The efficiency of EV in the city yet long legs of an ICE. It means effective for a get-away weekend with both speed and range. Since 2012, there has been a significant growth of plug-in models to choose from including the truly large Pacifica minivan. So we backed up our used 2014 BMW i3-REX with a more efficient, lower priced, new 2017 Prius Prime Plus.

When replacing a car, buyers only have the market of new and used cars to choose from ... a snapshot in time. Australians have a different car market and choices than the USA, Japan, and New Zealand. But everything comes down to the buyer's requirements. No high-speed, long range requirement, go BEV. But if you want to cover 1,000 miles (1,600 km) in a day, the plug-in hybrid is the way to go.

Bob Wilson

ps. I've shared this graph with my regular forums:

Source: http://www.hybridcars.com the dashboard reports

What I've seen over the last few months there is still no new EV vehicle I would purchase other a i3s which I hope to test drive soon. It has been over 2 years since I've had a test drive of an i3 so I'm hoping the latest i3s is a good upgrade. I'm not sure on a rex as it needs servicing and we own a 220i convertible for any long trips and had a trailer hitch installed.

 

[jadnashuanh]

IMHO, for running around locally, the i3 is a great car...I live fairly close to most things: shopping, friends, recreation, doctors, etc. My ICE doesn't get used often. IF it weren't paid for, I'd consider just renting something else when I needed longer distances, but the convenience of having the immediate choice is nice. Since most of my local travel would barely get the ICE warmed up if that, especially in the winter, and I can easily precondition the cabin before I go on the i3, throwing in the efficiency, it seemed like a no-brainer to get one. It gets driven most of the time.

 

[alohart]

Worldwide demand for the i3 seems to be increasing, not decreasing. Beginning in August, the i3 production rate will increase by 54% to 200/day. It certainly doesn't seem like the "i3 is over".

 

[user 3172]

I paid around £33k for my i3 with options included. I was waiting eagerly for the iPace specs and data. They phoned me at launch and said "it starts at £63k". I said, "good luck with that" and put the phone down! :shock:

Whilst I could in no way be described as poor, for many people (myself included), £63k is just way too much to justify to spend on a car and that's the base model. So I don't agree that the i3 is done in by cars such as this. In fact, I would seriously consider a 120ah model if it came out.

Would I spend £30k on another manufacturer's long range EV? Maybe, but it would have to be pretty good as well as long range to prise the i3 keys from my hands.

My only long term regret is the door arrangements. I can live with most things but there have been times when it's a right PITA :roll:

 

[ted99]

When my 330e lease is up 2 years from now, I'll look for a 2017 BEV i3 to purchase. It would be an in-town, only, car and the 2017 battery size is adequate for my needs. I highly value the dedicated electric-only platform and the CF structure appears to be one of the safest "cages" around. I also value that the only ferrous (read rustable) parts are two rear suspension arms. Having owned (didn't lease--stupid me) a 2014 REX, I know I don't want another REX. In my 3 years of ownership, it and it's systems were the cause of 6 warranty visits, it uses resistance cabin heaters rather than a heat pump, and, apart from a cabin air filter and 2 yr brake fluid, was the only component serviced in the annual services. The only time the REX ran was on the periodic automatic maintenance runs. The ride is way too like an unsprung coal cart on Houston's potholed near-town streets and my wife's complaints about this was the primary reason I sold it. But, she has an X5 40e now and I'll probably replace it with another, or a PHEV with 30+ electric miles range, and that'll be enough to make it our go-to car. The i3 would be for me and the short hauls I make to the tune of some 2500 miles per yr. I suspect it'll be zero maintenance (forget the annual cabin air filter replacement) and last until I don't need another car. My wife's next PHEV lease will take us to 2023 and I'm sure it's replacement will be BEV. There should be enough hi-speed charging infrastructure by then and I expect we'll have solid state batteries then. My assumption on this is that I'll be able to purchase a 3 yr old 2017 BEV i3 for around $15K at that time. If it's more than that, I'll probably lease the golf-size VW BEV as I would expect that the cost of a 3-yr lease would be less than $15K at that time. The difficulty with that is that BEV i3's are thin on the ground around here--my dealer says "special-order only". I can see them on e-bay motors, but they aren't around my part of the USA. I might get a REX, if the price is right, and just do the oil and brake fluid every 2 years. I'm thinking that the 2017 i3's are going to be in the $15K range in 2020 because of competition from a lot of newer BEV's in this size in the $35K retail price range with electric ranges at or over 200 mi. A 120 mi i3 will be an outlier for a lot of people, even though it's probably perfect for most users.

 

[jadnashuanh]

There is a need for a good city car...the i3 fills that bill quite well. If you need a more capable car, then while maybe the i3 REx could fill it, it isn't ideal. If the compromises are acceptable, it, too, can be a good car for some people. What the i3 is not, is a no-compromise, ICE replacement. We wont' see those until the battery tech gets better and the recharging infrastructure gets better. It's coming.

Long range is a crutch for many, but not necessary for as many people as they think. It would have been better if the BMW dealers in the USA all bought into the loaner program, but very few did. There are times when the i3 isn't going to cut it. If you could reliably get a replacement for those situations, it would be more viable as a single vehicle.

 

[Nyken]

The thing I like about my 2017 Rex is the Rex: with Rex I have no range anxiety.

I have about 5000 miles on the car now and so far, I've used 2 gallons of gas in 6 months. But those 2 gallons were important to me, coming at the end of longer trips where charging was not convenient.

I can absolutely see a case for pure electric. Obviously Tesla drivers live with this. With my car usage, pure electric would need to have a range of 180 miles minimum.

So for me in my i3, the small gas backup is critical.

One thing I'm not so happy about is the heating. Since I live in the north east, heating efficiency and time to get to a comfortable temperature is important. So I can't understand why the heat pump isn't used to heat the Rex as it is in the Bev. Resistive heating is so inefficient, slow and underpowered.

 

[viking79]

Resistance heating is not slow, maybe for i3 it is (haven't triedyet), but my Clarity PHEV resistance heating is blowing warm by 3 houses down from my house.

The reason they use resistance heating in most PHEVs is it allows them to easily blend it with engine heat using the same heat exchanger in the interior.

I wrote a blog post about this:
https://carswithplugs.com/2018/03/17/electric-car-heaters-honda-clarity/

 

[jadnashuanh]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that some of the hardware for the heat pump on the BEV sits in the area where the fuel tank of the REx is located. On a really cold day, the BEV reverts to resistance heating. Don't think that there's all that many other places you could put the gas tank, and the heat pump needs to be where you would be fairly close to the HVAC system to minimize the excess plumbing to keep weight and performance in check. Another thought, if you have the REx, the hit you take for using the batteries for your heat is more than overcome by the extra range you get with the engine. Nothing's free...Everything's a compromise.

Your best bet when it's cold, to set a departure time while plugged in, and get things preconditioned using line voltage verses all battery capacity.

 

[Nyken]

Yes, I've used the BMW connect app to precondition this past winter. It works well on the days when it doesn't say "Car in motion" while it's in my driveway.

While I'm not an expert at HVAC systems, my understanding of heat pumps versus air conditioners is that heat pumps have an additional set of valves to switch the flow of compressed gas. So I would not expect that the heat pump would be much larger than the current i3 air conditioner.

As for the efficiency of heat pumps versus pure electric resistive heating, heat pumps are much more efficicient. I used to own a factory building built in 1982 when electric was cheap. The building was 100% heated with heat pumps. You could never have heated the building with pure resistive heaters. But as the cost of electric rose over the years, as each heat pump unit needed to be replaced, we converted to A/C units with gas for heating.

 

[benjanos]

Hi all,

I am not 100% convinced about the heat pump option on the i3. Let me explain what I have learnt and heard then I am super happy to have anyone correct me where I am wrong. Here we go...

The heat pump takes quite a while to produce heat and part of this time lag is energy being consumed as the system heats itself up. About six liters of liquid I think? Any instantaneous heat is coming from the resistive heater. So as you drive off in a BEV with a heat pump you are paying twice, heat pump plus resistive. I see in my car car on my short commute in winter (versus summer) the heating energy consumption is huge. Also in temps around zero Celsius the thing is not very efficient. So I am guessing the resistive heater is kicking in a bit anyway.

Since the i3 has such a low range, if I need to ‘stretch it out’ in any way I have all heating off. So at this point I am just carrying a heat pump around that is a) added weight, b) not fast to come online c) relies on a backup heat source that is already included. My solution was to by a nice jacket and not often bother with the heating at all.

Love to have some others thoughts

 

[jadnashuanh]

The heat is generated by compressing the gas, so that starts as soon as the compressor turns on...it does not need to heat up all of the refrigerant. It does take awhile for the heat exchanger to warm up, similar to the time it takes for it to cool off when in cooling mode, and the colder it is outside, the longer that takes for two reasons: there's less heat in the air to capture and the delta between what you're comfortable with and the heat exchanger is likely greater. Say it's summer. Body temp averages 98.6-degrees. Pretty much anything cooler than that will start to feel cool. Now, take it in the middle of a cold snap...the air may be zero, until it gets warmer than body temp, it will still feel cool. That amount of heat rise verses the drop during cooling will make it seem like it's taking much longer to start to do much of anything. In reality, it's starting fairly quickly. A heat pump won't produce as warm of air as say a 1000-degree heating element, or a radiator filled with coolant (which does need to all get warmed up).

Talking watts, a good heat pump can produce multiple watts of heat from much less energy to run it, unlike the resistance heater, which is 1 in, one out, the heat pump might be one in, 3 out or there about.

 

[GuyD]

As a recent purchaser of a second hand i3 (BMW demo model - low kms; one year old; perfect) my thoughts are that there are few EVs around that are the equivalent - ground up sophisticated EV design beautifully made.

The 94Ah battery and Rex (which we've only used once!) gives us adequate range for 95% of our driving (but I'd still like more - 120Ah battery?) It is great around town and generally serves our needs very well. It will be supplemented by a bigger SUV EV when something becomes available (currently holding out for a Tesla Model Y)

We do have to do longer runs (within battery range) as we live out of town and this sadly shows up a few deficiencies - we also use it as an all-purpose car - dogs and big shops.

The suicide doors, sexy as they are, are actually just a pain most of the time and I'd trade four normal doors anytime!

But for me the biggest weakness of the i3 during trundling longer distances as a) the tyre road noise on anything but billiard smooth tar is beyond tiresome; b) the seats are far from comfortable and feel like they are out of place in such a classy vehicle (like a cheap Korean car?); and c) our i3 has nervous steering which requires constant supervision - hardly relaxing (I am getting the tracking and camber checked just in case...….)

For these reasons we'd not get a second i3 and I'd be cautious to recommend an i3 without some caveats.

 

[jadnashuanh]

One thing to consider...the 20" summer tires don't ride as nicely as the 19" all-seasons. For the slight potential improvement in ultimate cornering forces, that and the looks just don't tip the balance in their favor for me.

Tire noise is very dependent on how your roads are paved and the tires. Unfortunately, except for winter tires, there aren't really choices on the i3...maybe in a few more years the demand might justify someone making one. Given the nature of the design, long-term seat comfort wasn't a major factor. For typical EV range, I don't have an issue with it. My ICE is more comfortable on longer trips, and I choose that since the charging infrastructure around here is inadequate to even consider a timely long-range one. Those considerations also pushed me to opt for the BEV verses the REx...couldn't see the additional cost and lower efficiency worth it for my needs. I'm glad that I have the i3...it is fun, convenient, and less costly to run than my ICE on a day-to-day basis.

I'm hoping for a long-range hybrid that might get me my normal driving all electric, but without the inconvenience of trying to find a CCS unit working and available along my route.

 

[bwilson4web]

With the amount of long range battery Ev's being launched with great designs like the new Jaguar I Pace with a range of 480k who would pay the large dollars BMW requires for a very out of date BMW i3

Those who were alive in May 2016 when a Toyota dealer offered a 2016 Prius for the same price as a 2014 BMW i3-REx.

Bob Wilson