CHADEMO adapter

[Blue20]

While there is another thread debating whether using DC Fast charging often would damage the battery or not, in my part of the world CCS Combo DC fast charging is non-existence. The closest one is 500 km away in Portland, or 4,300+ km away in Toronto - if I don't have my passport with me.

Tesla is getting CHADEMO adapter on top of their Supercharger network
http://insideevs.com/teslas-jerome-guillen-promises-january-arrival-model-s-chademo-adapter/

Hey BMW, let's be realistic and develop the CHADEMO adapter!

 

[jadnashuanh]

While most anything is possible, you do realize that it won't be cheap! And, would likely be really tough. The CHADEMO interface uses a serial data bus via CANBUS, and the CCS system uses an entirely different signaling system (a 20Mhz signal imposed on one of the DC interface lines). As I understand it, Tesla's system also uses a serial databus, but still needs a converter to talk on the CANBUS. Someone said that conversion cable is in the order of $1K. How much are you willing to spend? Optioned out, a Tesla can easily be 2x the cost of an i3, and the people involved are likely to be willing to spend a bit more for the convenience. There's the potential for a larger market, since if it worked on the i3, it would also work on any other vehicle that could use a CCS unit and that could bring the cost down. Tesla's converter won't work with any other vehicle.

 

[user 1536]

The conversion cable was originally $1k, now $450.

BMW has promised some major news related to quick charging @ NAIAS. I'm hoping it's the announcement of a CHADEMO adapter. It's the only realistic way to make the fast charging option useful for the bulk of the country. That, or have some major partnership like with a fast food or grocery chain to get units installed at all locations in a very short period of time.

 

[jackt]

CHAdeMO adapter won't happen so don't get your heart set on it. EU manufacturers and the EU in general is committed to CCS, all rapid chargers in the EU from now on have to include CCS (if they are EU/Govt subsidised which most are)

BMW can and do fit the i3 with CHAdeMO but its for Japan only.

 

[mjk]

The state of CCS now (in the U.S., SF Bay Area) is about what the state of CHAdeMO was about two years ago when I leased my Leaf. In time I expect to see the infrastructure improve and more combo charges deployed. It's a waiting game.

Of more interest to me at the moment is the hardware/software fix that will allow the i3 to charge on L2 at the full specified speed. Being able to grab a 50% charge in about 90 minutes on an L2 would negate most of the need of quick charging for most of the trips I make.

 

[APSeattle]

I paid for the DC charger on my i3 without doing enough research - I live in Seattle, and it turns out there are zero of the DC fast chargers in Washington state. I was told 'more are coming', but other than that vague and unsatisfying answer I haven't been able to find any more information.

I probably would have opted for the DC charger anyways, as I assume the situation will improve - we shall see.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The signaling on CHADEMO verses CCS is totally different, so IF you were to try to make it work, you'd need a computer converter box in between, and it would need power to operate (tougher, since the high power is not turned on until things communicate, and no power to make that work, so maybe batteries?). I'm not sure most companies would want the liability to ensure they didn't damage something in the process, either the charging unit, the car, or itself. When dealing with high voltage and current, you don't want to deal with a marginal or worse device. CHADEMO uses low voltage, dedicated serial data similar to Ethernet connections (two pair), while CCS imposes an RF carrier wave on two of the DC signal lines with a 20MHz signal. Totally different and incompatible without conversion.

The DC fast charging infrastructure differs vastly depending on where you live. Where I live, it is essentially zero for either system. I bought my i3 knowing this, but optioned the DC fast charge port, expecting it would become useful during the life of the car. Maybe money poorly spent, but I'd bet odds it isn't. My gamble. BMW feels it's worthwhile, as they're making it standard for 2015 models.

The way I look at it, you have a significant number of manufacturers out there now committed to the CCS system...it will have a lot more traction getting units installed than CHADEMO has with the volume and source of the cars that can use that. For those that do have CHADEMO, it isn't all that much more to put in another processor board in the unit to support both types, and at least some of the CHADEMO units can be retrofitted with CCS plugs as well and support both types.

 

[WoodlandHills]

This is like asking for an adaptor to let you use diesel in your gasoline car.......

 

[user 1536]

I paid for the DC charger on my i3 without doing enough research - I live in Seattle, and it turns out there are zero of the DC fast chargers in Washington state. I was told 'more are coming', but other than that vague and unsatisfying answer I haven't been able to find any more information.

Here's what they announced: http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2186 The specific info for WA is they have still committed to zero.

Dealers can install them, but don't think they'll be forced to (can't recall, and not going to go re-read that thread ). And if it says they will be forced, see if it has a date associated with it.

Latest WA state govt EV proposal is pushing to expand the charging network (through incentives for public & private installs), and specifically mention the DCFC's would have to support both CHADEMO and SAE.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is like asking for an adaptor to let you use diesel in your gasoline car.......

Well, since Tesla already has a similar adaptor (the Tesla Supercharger *is* CCS with Tesla enhancements), your assertion is a bit silly.

We just had our EV breakfast in Poway, California, and the number one question from BMW i3 owners to me was if / when they can get CHAdeMO.

We already offer the "JdeMO" inlet for the Tesla powered RAV4 EV, and will have the same capability for other Tesla powered cars, including Mercedes B-Class ED and Tesla Roadster.

We can offer JdeMO for the BMW i3, so here's the general guidelines:

1) this will not be an adaptor, but "native" to the car. The CHAdeMO inlet would be mounted under the hood and hard mounted.

2) it will cost around $2000 per car.

3) the car can retain CCS capability, if so equipped.

4) we won't look at the particulars until this fall / winter, as we are swamped with other projects.

 

[Blue20]

Thanks Tony for the info. Please keep us updated on the project.

Please take into consideration that with the "native" method, the car needs to be available to you for the installation. Or you will have installation partners outside of California?

 

[jadnashuanh]

Adding a whole new charging path IN the car, is not an adapter in my mind. And, at $2k, not worth it, to me anyways. I can just see BMW voiding a warranty if some issue arose because of it.

Legislation in most of Europe is prompting the addition of a CCS capability to any new DC fast charging station, and is likely to be retrofitted to many CHADEMO units already installed. The power supply is the big expense...the logic and a cable is the next, but neither is anywhere near the cost of the high current DC power supply.

I do not see CCS home units becoming a mainstream item, and the incentive to install either type commercially is still not great around where I live, north of Boston, there are none that would be worthwhile attempting to reach. If you're in an area where they are plentiful, I suppose, but I think many people would find it an expensive addition that is not all that useful, and would never have a good payback.

 

[jasleinstein]

this discussion about whether or not an adapter could be made is interesting. The simple fact is we were told by Seattle BMW when we bought our i3 last summer, chargers would be installed soon. We paid for the charging modules and bought the car with the expectation chargers would be installed "soon". It is clear there is no plan for dc chargers for i3 to be installed in Wa state, anywhere, by anyone.

 

[i3atl]

It is clear there is no plan for dc chargers for i3 to be installed in Wa state, anywhere, by anyone.

That is not correct - Kia will be installing several dual-standard DCFCs at some of their dealer locations. The specific ones are listed in the press release.

http://insideevs.com/kia-charges-up-for-soul-ev-launch-in-washington-oregon/

 

[Blue20]

It is clear there is no plan for dc chargers for i3 to be installed in Wa state, anywhere, by anyone.

That is not correct - Kia will be installing several dual-standard DCFCs at some of their dealer locations. The specific ones are listed in the press release.

http://insideevs.com/kia-charges-up-for-soul-ev-launch-in-washington-oregon/

Where did you pick up they have dual DCFC?

They only mentioned they have dual CHAdeMO and J1772.

It is interesting that even Kia has a much biggest DCFC roll out plan than BMW. Is CCS that much more expansive than CHAdeMO to install?

 

[i3atl]

Where did you pick up they have dual DCFC?

They only mentioned they have dual CHAdeMO and J1772.

It is interesting that even Kia has a much biggest DCFC roll out plan than BMW. Is CCS that much more expansive than CHAdeMO to install?

The model number is specified in the press release: FC50K-CC-S.

In addition, they've already gone with dual-standard units at their CA and Atlanta area dealers.