BMW I3 REx vs. Audi A3 Sportback E-Tron

[sliksal02]

So I was this close to getting the BMW I3, when, on a whim, I decided to go test drive the E-Tron. I realize this isn't exactly comparing apples to apples (Audi is a full hybrid with a 10g tank, the BMW has a 2g tank but greater range on the battery thanks to the extensive carbon fiber), but I thought the Audi was MUCH more sporty, much more fun, but also... MUCH more expensive.

It's about a $60/month difference on the lease payment, and that's not even counting the fact that the BMW is a 15k/year lease and the Audi is a 12k/year lease. The Audi will also be more expensive to operate with the bigger gas tank. I have a 33 mile highway commute (one way; with a charger at work) so I'm leaning towards the BMW just because it can get me to work and back on all-electric. But the flip side is I think the Audi engine can charge its electric battery faster, and I think I'll be a lot less reliant on plugging it in to get the battery benefits. I'm also terrified of being in a situation where I'm constantly relying on the 2 gallon, 34 hp BMW engine.

Did anyone here consider the Audi and if so, what did you think about it? This is really tough decision for me.

 

[janner]

We tried one at the same time as the i3. Think of the e-tron as a conventional car that has an electric motor for tax benefit purposes. It doesn't have much range on electric and as soon as you want to go quickly the ICE cuts in. For slow crawl through a busy city if you don't have far to go then it's fine. The dealers aren't expecting you to charge it; my dealer didn't know where the cable was.
The e-tron is a parallel hybrid whereas the i3 is a serial hybrid; the i3 always drives electrically the e-tron occassionally.

 

[Tirpitz]

So I was this close to getting the BMW I3, when, on a whim, I decided to go test drive the E-Tron. I realize this isn't exactly comparing apples to apples (Audi is a full hybrid with a 10g tank, the BMW has a 2g tank but greater range on the battery thanks to the extensive carbon fiber), but I thought the Audi was MUCH more sporty, much more fun, but also... MUCH more expensive.

It's about a $60/month difference on the lease payment, and that's not even counting the fact that the BMW is a 15k/year lease and the Audi is a 12k/year lease. The Audi will also be more expensive to operate with the bigger gas tank. I have a 33 mile highway commute (one way; with a charger at work) so I'm leaning towards the BMW just because it can get me to work and back on all-electric. But the flip side is I think the Audi engine can charge its electric battery faster, and I think I'll be a lot less reliant on plugging it in to get the battery benefits. I'm also terrified of being in a situation where I'm constantly relying on the 2 gallon, 34 hp BMW engine.

Did anyone here consider the Audi and if so, what did you think about it? This is really tough decision for me.

I can't help you much on the actual car because I've never driven that Audi. Car and Driver seem to dislike it but what your butt in seat says matters more than what they think. It certainly would be a more "useful" all around car than an i3. And though I have yet to drive an i3 on the highway I'd wager the Audi is a nicer highway car.

I can say that the difference you are seeing in prices is almost certainly down to where Audi and BMW put their residual percentages. BMW usually has artificially high residual values. Basically BMW is willing to subsidize the leases to move the cars. This also typically means the price to purchase option on a BMW is higher than market value at lease end. This encourages people to turn their cars in and lease another BMW. Plus BMW gets a potential CPO car to sell. The math must work for them because they keep doing it.

Audi is more realistic on their residual values and as a result the cars lease for more than a comparable BMW. In that regard if you intend to lease and then dump the car for another one at lease end the BMW ends up the better deal. And if you want to buy the BMW you can find a dealer willing to flip the car to you and give you a better deal than the straight off lease purchase.

One other thought. You said the Audi is a 12K mile lease and that you drive 33 miles one way to work. If you are going in 5 days a week with say three weeks off for vacations and holidays you are just over 16K miles a year just going back and forth to work. You'll want to factor that into your lease costs unless you do plan to buy the car at lease end. If you are maxing out your miles just going to work using the Audi for other trips is going to get increasingly expensive rendering its extra usefulness a bit un-important.

 

[sliksal02]

So I was this close to getting the BMW I3, when, on a whim, I decided to go test drive the E-Tron. I realize this isn't exactly comparing apples to apples (Audi is a full hybrid with a 10g tank, the BMW has a 2g tank but greater range on the battery thanks to the extensive carbon fiber), but I thought the Audi was MUCH more sporty, much more fun, but also... MUCH more expensive.

It's about a $60/month difference on the lease payment, and that's not even counting the fact that the BMW is a 15k/year lease and the Audi is a 12k/year lease. The Audi will also be more expensive to operate with the bigger gas tank. I have a 33 mile highway commute (one way; with a charger at work) so I'm leaning towards the BMW just because it can get me to work and back on all-electric. But the flip side is I think the Audi engine can charge its electric battery faster, and I think I'll be a lot less reliant on plugging it in to get the battery benefits. I'm also terrified of being in a situation where I'm constantly relying on the 2 gallon, 34 hp BMW engine.

Did anyone here consider the Audi and if so, what did you think about it? This is really tough decision for me.

I can't help you much on the actual car because I've never driven that Audi. Car and Driver seem to dislike it but what your butt in seat says matters more than what they think. It certainly would be a more "useful" all around car than an i3. And though I have yet to drive an i3 on the highway I'd wager the Audi is a nicer highway car.

I can say that the difference you are seeing in prices is almost certainly down to where Audi and BMW put their residual percentages. BMW usually has artificially high residual values. Basically BMW is willing to subsidize the leases to move the cars. This also typically means the price to purchase option on a BMW is higher than market value at lease end. This encourages people to turn their cars in and lease another BMW. Plus BMW gets a potential CPO car to sell. The math must work for them because they keep doing it.

Audi is more realistic on their residual values and as a result the cars lease for more than a comparable BMW. In that regard if you intend to lease and then dump the car for another one at lease end the BMW ends up the better deal. And if you want to buy the BMW you can find a dealer willing to flip the car to you and give you a better deal than the straight off lease purchase.

One other thought. You said the Audi is a 12K mile lease and that you drive 33 miles one way to work. If you are going in 5 days a week with say three weeks off for vacations and holidays you are just over 16K miles a year just going back and forth to work. You'll want to factor that into your lease costs unless you do plan to buy the car at lease end. If you are maxing out your miles just going to work using the Audi for other trips is going to get increasingly expensive rendering its extra usefulness a bit un-important.

Yeah, at the current pace the 12k miles is impractical, but I'm also in an unsustainable position at the moment. I will likely move <10 miles from work in a few months. I got quotes on 15 month leases, but it's about a $90 difference (on a 36 month lease). I'm leaning towards getting 12k miles and purchasing excess miles before lease end, at a rate lower than at lease termination but probably higher than if initially negotiated.

Another thing I'm considering is the difficulty of transferring or paying off the lease before termination. There's a small chance I find a job in a city on the opposite end of the country, where I don't need a car. In that case, the Audi is the better option because the lower residual value means I'll owe a smaller difference between my selling price and the remaining lease payments + the buyout. On the other hand, should I choose to transfer the lease, BMW allows you to transfer the contract without retaining secondary liability, whereas with Audi, you're on the hook if the transferee doesn't pay. I really doubt I'd try to transfer the lease, though--but BMW's higher residuals might not leave me the option to sell. So there's a bit of give and take there.

At the end of the day, I enjoyed the Audi more. If it was strictly a financial decision, I'd probably pick the BMW: $60-90 extra every month matters to me. On the other hand, I don't know how much I'll like parking my car 3 blocks away from my house because it's charging, or struggling to get up a hill on the range extender. Those are inconveniences I haven't experienced and I'm not sure I'm prepared for them.

Anyway, thanks to both of you.

 

[jadnashuanh]

While it's possible to get into the limp mode with the i3 REx, you really have to be trying and not paying attention, so that consideration is probably not a major point. The Audi should (IMHO) be considered an ICE with a boost, not an EV like the i3. Therefore, operating costs will be more on the Audi. I've only owned one Audi, and while I liked the car, I sold it because I did not like the repair costs that occurred at relatively low mileage, but after the warranty ran out. Things that, at least I felt, should last much longer on a car failed. This was a number of cars ago, and things may differ now. While I've had the i3 in for service, most of those trips were for s/w updates, very little has gone wrong, and out of pocket has been zip (if you don't count my time - I'm retired, so relatively time flexible). My other BMW has similarly been pretty reliable with a few infant mortality things that were covered by warranty. I mostly drive the i3 because most of my trips are local and short which would be hard on the ICE which gets used on longer trips to its best advantage.

 

[PluviaPlumbum]

I have driven both and was about to order the Audi eTron before I tested my i3 Rex. I like Audi's and have owned many. But the i3 just blew us both away as a car, my wife was very anti BMW until this point. The suitability of either vehicle depends very much on you motoring needs. But as your commute is 33 miles I would be very wary on relying on the Audi to get you there solely as an Ev in the winter months. Yes the Audi has a bigger fuel tank, but many i3 Rex owners have done quite long journeys without much inconvenience and a little planning of refueliing/charging stops. If you get the car Coded to operate the Rex like we do in Europe ( Easy to do and cheap) then you get a much more flexible beast than what some owners put up with in NA

The i3 is in town traffic a real point & squirt go cart which you can have a LOT of fun in, if you enjoy the traffic Light Grand Prix. Try to do that in an eTron and the ICE motor will fire up a Lot. Plus I have some longevity worries with the fairy complex gearbox arrangement in the Audi, the I3 has no such worries and is ultimately a from the ground up EV not an adapted Ice platform.
There are some great leasing deals to be had on i3 dealer stock if you don't want to order a 2017 with longer range batteries.

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, in NA, the 2017 REx will be able to use the full fuel tank as available elsewhere now (or with coding). But, you still won't be able to turn it on earlier than the computer allows (at least if I read the announcement correctly).

 

[darrellpf]

According to this video, there is an option under the battery settings that says "maintain current charge" that will turn the Rex on right away.

 

[jadnashuanh]

According to this video, there is an option under the battery settings that says "maintain current charge" that will turn the Rex on right away.

That's available outside of the USA and Canada...not here unless the car is recoded. It only works once you have depleted the battery down to a maximum of 75%.

 

[joey003]

I've actually done the reverse. Was very interested in the Audi e-tron from several months back. Drove it and liked it quite a bit (I've had an itch to get into some sort of EV type of car). I do love the design of it and the features (I'm a big fan of wagons). Where I am orders for the Audi were getting delayed quite a bit, and then I found myself waiting for the 2017 update. During that time I came across the i3 while reading an article explaining how it's getting an increased battery for 2017MY. Started looking at the i3 in more detail and am now very intrigued by it. Love the idea of a BEV (I'd get it without the range extender myself). I was in love with the A3 e-tron but have lost all interest in it now after seeing the i3 in person and reading a lot about how it's built.

Like a previous poster mentioned, the Audi really is an ICE car with an added battery for EV mode. Though it's quite nice how by default the Audi will turn on and drive in EV only unless changed by the driver. And I'm sure definitely convenient for the occasional long trip/drive.

 

[Boatguy]

It sounds like this is your first EV so the range anxiety is understandable. If you have a charger at work, and a charger at home, then the 33mi commute is no issue in the i3 BEV. With no charger at home, it's still a non-issue with the BEV, but you'd probably be more comfortable with the REX. And if you want a couple of months for the 2017 REX you're golden.

I find we tend to overestimate the number of miles driven, thinking more of time than actual miles. Consider that the average car is driven 12,000 mi /yr. Assuming you only drove 6 days / week, that's less than 40 miles / day, no sweat in the i3 BEV. But of course it's the occasional use above average that is the source of range anxiety, the "what if...".

The best way to get a handle on this is to log your actual driving miles for a few weeks. Reset the trip meter each morning and record it at night.

That said, I think the i3 is a lousy car for any sort of extended freeway driving. Great around town, not so much fun if you are going to drive 100mi straight through. If this is going to be your only car, the Audi is probably nicer to drive for any extended period.