Air conditioning failed

[TOEd]

Thank you Will Flannery. I like the way you think!

 

[i3Alan]

Any updates on what the OP ended up doing ?

I traded in my salvage i3 on a new Leaf SL plus. The Nissan dealer gave me about $1K more in trade than my BMW dealer offered me. The difference between the pre-AC catastrophe book value and the after salvage trade value was about $9K. BMW sent me a "goodwill" check for $2K. That is, I lost about $7K due to the AC failure, and the desire to ever own another BMW. The $44K list fully loaded Leaf with about 215 mile range will cost me about $23K after rebates and trade and dealer discounts, including taxes, etc.. I would have gone with a Model 3 Tesla, but it was too small (I need a hatchback).

Rather than driving my i3 for another 3 to 6 years as expected, I will likely drive the Leaf for a few years and then get a Model Y or something a bit more exciting than the otherwise fully competent Leaf. Besides, the Leaf has as good of road feel as the i3, except in the Leaf you have to open the door and reach your hand down to the road! Actually, the Leaf is full of wonderful bells and whistles and comfort features, has very good acceleration (not i3 class), and does the e-pedal quite a bit better than the i3 with full blending of the mechanical brakes to insure deceleration to a complete stop even down hill, and more aggressive regen than the i3 and better integration with the cruise such than canceling cruise with no pedal does not switch on braking quickly at all. The Leaf cruise is adaptive down to full stop, with steering assist for lane-keep. The worst part of the Leaf is the FWD torque steer, but I am already used to it (tolerate it, not like it). And, yes, I very much miss the exceptionally fun handling of the i3 and the extraordinary tight turning circle of the i3. But the Leaf does have a whole lot going for it, much more than the low price would suggest.

 

[i3Houston]

The new leaf looks to me, I prefer it over i3 but couple years ago it dealership quote was closer to 40G so that brought me to i3.

Thanks for sharing your thought on Leaf! Compressor on my i3 was replaced few months ago and so far cars been holding well but if something goes south then I would look into a Leaf for sure!

 

[i3Alan]

The new leaf looks to me, I prefer it over i3 but couple years ago it dealership quote was closer to 40G so that brought me to i3.

Thanks for sharing your thought on Leaf! Compressor on my i3 was replaced few months ago and so far cars been holding well but if something goes south then I would look into a Leaf for sure!

What did your compressor replacement cost? I have heard that for AC catastrophes since mine that BMW has picked up the repair bill for all but the cost of the compressor replacement. That sure is a lot more reasonable than "here is a $2000 goodwill check" to say the least. I would have gone ahead with that repair, assuming the compressor replacement cost was under $4K and kept my i3. If higher than $4K, then I probably would still let them replace the AC system and then just trade the car (minimizing my loss).

A few other things that the Leaf does considerably better than the i3: it has a good horn. Not great, but not i3 pathetic. It has excellent sun visors that slide out when needed to cover the side window. It does not have automatic windshield wipers, but much better control over the wipers with a very wide range of intermittent wipe speed from every few seconds all the way to nearly continuous, with excellent windshield coverage. The seat heaters have low and high settings that are spot on, rather than just too hot. The automatic headlights also have auto brights which work great. Both the low and high beams are excellent, although the i3 low beams are nicer (and the i3 high beams pathetic). The LEDs on the dash that are easily seen from the front of the car are wonderful indicators of charge status when charging, and the hinged rubber gasket plastic charging cover is vastly nicer than the plastic cap on the i3. The radio controls are much nicer, including the touch screen and steering wheel controls, but I prefer the radio delay off with ignition of the i3 rather than the instant off of the Leaf. I appreciate the Leaf e-pedal more and more each day, and realize how significantly better it works than the e-pedal of the i3 (which I still think is great). The 360 camera view is a feature I NEVER want to be without in any car (it is worth a test drive in a Leaf if only to see how great this feature really is for parking forward, backward, or parallel). I like the front seat comfort of both cars, but the Leaf rear seats (all 3!) are far more comfortable for adults, as are the rear doors and adjustable windows.

Both cars allow the Power off switch to automatically engage Park, and the go pedal to automatically release the parking brake, but I do prefer the tranny knob of the i3 to the more Prius like lever of the Leaf, but only because the Leaf has drive and reverse engage opposite of the direction (push forward for reverse). The i3 certainly was more fun to whip around on tight curves, but I think the Leaf may have the edge on lateral G handling (but certainly not the excitement!). The i3 clearly has the edge on acceleration, tight turning circle, and possibly braking (perhaps not on wet roads).

Bottom line, the i3 is far more of a driver's car and just plain fun driving. The Leaf is a great EV package, well executed, with great features, and great pricing, but may not be a good choice for someone who lives in a very hot climate and wants to keep it for a long time (no battery liquid cooling).

 

[i3Houston]

The new leaf looks to me, I prefer it over i3 but couple years ago it dealership quote was closer to 40G so that brought me to i3.

Thanks for sharing your thought on Leaf! Compressor on my i3 was replaced few months ago and so far cars been holding well but if something goes south then I would look into a Leaf for sure!

What did your compressor replacement cost?

Luckily, it was covered under warranty, it happened a day after 12V battery was replaced. Someone here mentioned that compressor must have been weak and then died after fresh 12V battery was installed.

Leaf sounds like good alternative to i3, how reliable is the pre-conditioning though.

 

[i3Alan]

Leaf sounds like good alternative to i3, how reliable is the pre-conditioning though.

I never use pre-conditioning. I live in Phoenix! Not sure the Leaf even does it. It does, however, appear to have easier setting of delay start charging than the i3, but I haven't used that on either car. It's just that the Leaf menus for controlling the charging look more useful and easier (having scanned through both).

 

[i3Houston]

Leaf sounds like good alternative to i3, how reliable is the pre-conditioning though.

I never use pre-conditioning. I live in Phoenix! Not sure the Leaf even does it. It does, however, appear to have easier setting of delay start charging than the i3, but I haven't used that on either car. It's just that the Leaf menus for controlling the charging look more useful and easier (having scanned through both).

Sorry I meant, using the cell phone connection(phone app) to remotely cool the car. BMW service had been choppy even in metro area for 15i3rex, it just got better couple months ago.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The earlier Leafs had issues with their air cooled battery packs, especially in the US desert SW...the heat just messed with the batteries. Even the newest ones have some issues regarding that. Last I read, and it might have changed, if you were going on a longer trip, you were limited to ONE DC fast charge, as the combination of driving then the DC fast charge, then driving again would not give the air cooled batteries a chance to cool off enough. If you needed to fast charge again, you had to wait hours, and even that might be an issue if it was 115-degrees F out! Park in the sun over a sun-baked asphalt, and the heat radiating up from the surface could easily be 160-degrees or more...doesn't do much for air cooling the battery pack! Liquid cooling is more involved, but more reliable without those restrictions.

I haven't looked at a Leaf in a couple of years, but the original ones had a really deep well in the rear. I use my i3 to carry my folding, recumbent trike to the rail trail...it would not have fit well in the Leaf...the wheels would have tried to fall into the hole, which would have meant the rear end would have been constantly pushing and rubbing on the rear, if you could have gotten the hatch closed in the first place.

I appreciate the slightly higher seat entry point on the i3 as well. The newer ones do have a bit more power, but keep in mind, at a minimum, it weighs at least 500# more with a smaller motor...that does make a difference.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe BMW is taking notice of the possible AC compressor failure in the early i3's. Took my 2015 in for my last 'free' REx oil change, and getting the front shock dust boots that split replaced before my warranty is up in a couple of months. After reading this thread, asked the Service advisor to check the AC compressor while it was in for the service. They took the car in for the oil change, ordered the rubber boots, and came back and said they also ordered a new AC compressor, and would install it under warranty. Took the car back in a week later when the parts were in, and got both the new rubber boots and the new AC compressor installed - for $0.

 

[i3Houston]

Maybe BMW is taking notice of the possible AC compressor failure in the early i3's. Took my 2015 in for my last 'free' REx oil change, and getting the front shock dust boots that split replaced before my warranty is up in a couple of months. After reading this thread, asked the Service advisor to check the AC compressor while it was in for the service. They took the car in for the oil change, ordered the rubber boots, and came back and said they also ordered a new AC compressor, and would install it under warranty. Took the car back in a week later when the parts were in, and got both the new rubber boots and the new AC compressor installed - for $0.

Wow... Great job asking them!

 

[flyboy320]

Took the car back in a week later when the parts were in, and got both the new rubber boots and the new AC compressor installed - for $0.

Did you notice anything amiss (perhaps the sound) from the A/C compressor before you took it in, did you suspect it might be failing?

 

[Anonymous]

Did you notice anything amiss (perhaps the sound) from the A/C compressor before you took it in, did you suspect it might be failing?

To me it sounded the same as when I bought it over a year ago, my wife had said at the end of the summer that she thought it sounded a little louder to her and I mentioned that to the Service Advisor.

View attachment AC Replacement.jpg

 

[i3Houston]

Took the car back in a week later when the parts were in, and got both the new rubber boots and the new AC compressor installed - for $0.

Did you notice anything amiss (perhaps the sound) from the A/C compressor before you took it in, did you suspect it might be failing?

Just like MKH, my wife told me that car is making more noise than it normally does. Don't think I would have heard it from inside the car.

 

[i3Alan]

Maybe BMW is taking notice of the possible AC compressor failure in the early i3's. Took my 2015 in...

The good news is that it looks like BMW is starting to take responsibility for their time-bomb AC compressors.

The bad news is two-fold. First, this was a 2015, and the previous reports I've seen on failed AC compressors have all been 2014s.

Second, is BMW is still taking no responsibility for how they screwed me out of my i3, leaving me with salvage value and a pitiful $2K goodwill gesture (calling it goodwill is denying responsibility). As far as I am concerned, BMW still owes me $5800 as I have stated in a claim letter to them which has been ignored completely, other than acknowledgment of receipt by the dealer when I asked in person. The $5800 is the difference in the book value immediately before and after the catastrophic AC failure, minus the "goodwill". That is why I am driving a new Leaf SL+ now while waiting for the Tesla Y. Had BMW given me $7800 credit on a new BMW when this happened, I almost certainly would be driving a new i3 now.

It seems that BMW is less bothered by never seeing me own another BMW product, and making sure I will tell as many people why not for many more years, then they would be bothered by the loss of $5800 to make this right by me. So far, I am pretty sure I stopped two new BMW vehicle sales. I am pretty certain BMW is going to be out far more than $5800 because of what happened to my i3 and BMW's pitiful response to it.

 

[i3Alan]

Just an FYI for those interested in following the trail of a salvaged vehicle.

A $22K AC failure turned my i3 into salvage. I thought got a decent trade value for the car at nearly $8500, figuring the battery, body components, motor, etc. would be worth about twice that. The car went to auction in July. I assumed it would be stripped down pretty much, and given a salvage title pretty soon thereafter, if not before hitting the auction block. What I find interesting is that the car just went "off-line" yesterday, according to BMW, finally disconnecting me from Connected Drive). Six months seems like a long time to me.

 

[panamamike]

Are there any other know cases of this issue occurring?

 

[i3Alan]

Are there any other know cases of this issue occurring?

When I drove into my dealer, a service writer (not mine) in the drive asked me if I was having AC problems. I asked how he knew. He said another i3 with the same clicking sound (heard outside the car) that he wrote up last week had the same symptom. I asked how that went. He said I really didn't want to know. My service writer confirmed that mine was not the first the dealer has seen.

After getting my $22K repair quote, I called the other BMW dealer in town to see if this quote could be reasonably possible. He said their shop has also seen i3 AC problems with repair quotes over $20K.

I have seen other mentions of this on the i3 Facebook page. In my case BMW offered $2K in goodwill, but no additional assistance at all. After my non-help from BMW, I heard of another i3 customer where BMW offered to fully repair the AC system, and only charge the customer for the price of the AC compressor and labor for the compressor, which I believe brought the total customer costs down to the $3K-4K range. I suspect that this is the current policy of BMW regarding this issue now, but that is just a guess.

So, extrapolating from my anecdotal evidence, I would guess this has happened to dozens of i3s in the US, but probably not hundreds.

 

[panamamike]

Are there any other know cases of this issue occurring?

...BMW offered to fully repair the AC system, and only charge the customer for the price of the AC compressor and labor for the compressor, which I believe brought the total customer costs down to the $3K-4K range. I suspect that this is the current policy of BMW regarding this issue now, but that is just a guess.

So, extrapolating from my anecdotal evidence, I would guess this has happened to dozens of i3s in the US, but probably not hundreds.

That is a shame, too bad they aren't finding a way to make this right or at least let folks know how it avoid/fix the issue. Is the noise obvious? Is there a warning before the failure? Symptoms to look for.

 

[Anonymous]

That is a shame, too bad they aren't finding a way to make this right or at least let folks know how it avoid/fix the issue. Is the noise obvious? Is there a warning before the failure? Symptoms to look for.

My advice is before the warranty is up, take it in and just tell them the AC seems to be making more noise than normal. BMW apparently has a test plan in place for the AC system. They should then run the test plan, and according to what happened with mine, if the test plan comes back inconclusive or marginal, they replace the AC compressor. At minimum, they will purge the system, and refill with refrigerant and oil to spec, and you will have it on record with BMW that you had concerns about the AC while the car was under warranty, should it fail after the warranty expires. After warranty, i figure on having the system purged and refilled every few years, which would bring it up to full pressure, and make sure it has enough lubricating oil in the system for the AC compressor.

 

[i3Alan]

That is a shame, too bad they aren't finding a way to make this right or at least let folks know how it avoid/fix the issue. Is the noise obvious? Is there a warning before the failure? Symptoms to look for.

My advice is before the warranty is up, take it in and just tell them the AC seems to be making more noise than normal. BMW apparently has a test plan in place for the AC system. They should then run the test plan, and according to what happened with mine, if the test plan comes back inconclusive or marginal, they replace the AC compressor. At minimum, they will purge the system, and refill with refrigerant and oil to spec, and you will have it on record with BMW that you had concerns about the AC while the car was under warranty, should it fail after the warranty expires. After warranty, i figure on having the system purged and refilled every few years, which would bring it up to full pressure, and make sure it has enough lubricating oil in the system for the AC compressor.

My AC went out at 5 years, a full year out of warranty. I took it in when it was quiet, but not cooling. They did a diagnosis resulting in nothing wrong, as in no leaks found, but refrigerant was low. They added refrigerant and sent me on my way with a $268 bill. Two weeks later, I have almost identical symptoms, except there was a slight clicking sound that seemed to be coming from the rear. Just a click-click-click that probably could not be heard at all if the radio was on, or an any speed over perhaps 40 MPH. That was the sound the other service writer was commenting to me about as he noticed it when I drove into the service drive. I was charged another $108 for the final diagnosis and repair quote of $22,292.65, consisting of many pages of parts (mainly) and labor.

My assumptions are:

1) My dealer, Chapman BMW in Chandler AZ, service department failed to properly diagnose the already existing AC compressor failure on June 12, before it became catastrophic two weeks later;

2) Chapman improperly serviced the AC on June 12, perhaps by overcharging the refrigerant, failing to add the requisite oil with the added refrigerant, or other; and/or

3) BMW failed to properly design the i3 AC system to avoid or minimize catastrophic system failure in the event of a compressor failure as might have been accomplished with a dryer trap commonly used with other auto AC systems.

Any combination of the above are possible. Neither (1) nor (2) are easily provable.

Even if all the above scenarios are incorrect, it is still unjustifiable that a vehicle one year past the new-car warranty, fully maintained per BMW service schedule, and showing no indication of external damages or abuse, should fail with such catastrophic self-destruction of the entire automobile.

I found the value of my BMW ignoring the AC failure as provided by Kelly Blue Book on June 10 to be $15,940. The highest trade in value I was offered from numerous BMW and non-BMW dealers was $8477 from a Nissan dealer. Including the $376 AC work charged and paid to Chapman, my claim to BMW was the lost value of $7839. After numerous pleas with Chapman and BMW, in person, on the phone, and in writing, the grand total of help I was given was $2000 as strictly "goodwill" from BMW, and, six months afterwards, an offer from Chapman to complete the repairs at a 10% discount.