Want to buy an i3 as an around-town EV

[sirozha]

We are an EV family. One of my EVs is being lemon lawed, so I'm getting most of the money I paid for it back. The other EV (Model Y) is not big enough for our out-of-town needs. I want to get a Rivian R1S for our out-of-town trips and as a secondary around-town vehicle, and I want to get an i3 to be our primary around-town vehicle. We have two adults, a 13-year-old who is 5'10, and a 65 lbs dog. We would only drive the i3 locally in our metro area and never go on long trips in it.

I'm looking for a newer one and want to take a $4,000 rebate on used cars.

I really do like the i3 with the tech package (drove one today). My wife is not thrilled, but I keep telling her it's a great little EV for in-town driving, which is easy to park and maneuver is small spaces. We don't have to go to the office, but sometimes we do need to be in two places at the same time (not very often), so we do need two vehicles for cases like this.

Is there any reason that we should not get an i3 with technology package?

Thank you.

 

[3pete]

Is there any reason that we should not get an i3 with technology package?

I'd say the biggest reason is this:

My wife is not thrilled

:lol:

Generally speaking, the main negatives of the i3 that you will definitely run into are:
1) the tires are expensive, wear fast and can be harder to find than more common sized tires
2) the clamshell doors are annoying in certain circumstances (loading your entire family in an i3 would be slower than a car with 4 normal doors).

The other negatives are things that may or may not happen to you, such as catastrophic AC failure that totals the car. This seems to be VERY rare, but would make you livid if it happened to you.

If you're trying to get the $4k tax rebate, you'll be limited to $25k purchase price from a dealer. Most 2017-2018 94ah battery cars seem to fall under that right now, but you should be aware of it if you're looking for a well optioned car, more-so on the 2018+ 120ah cars.

If you're ok with the range limit (and your wife is game to give the i3 a shot), it's a great city car! But I might be a bit biased...

P.S. - Based on your original post, I assume you're looking exclusively at BEV i3s. The gas engine on the REX adds additional complexity, so I'd recommend going with a BEV unless you are 100% sure you want the REX.

 

[eNate]

Our household has an i3 (2nd one), a VW ID.4, and a Ford Flex.

We have 5 members in our household, including two 5'5" teens and an elder.

Although the VW is the more comfortable car, and the i3 is a bit cramped in the back seat, we usually default to the i3 for around town trips if it's just four of us. It's so easy to park, and is just really svelte in traffic. It's also the most electrically efficient to drive.

The VW is great for 5 and for longer trips – where comfort and greater range come into play.

The Flex largely remains on the sidelines. We don't often need its capacity.

 

[mojo]

I have to agree with 3pete's point that the wife not being thrilled may be a very good reason not to get one.

The other factor is the 65lbs dog. If you're happy to have it on/in the back seats and can live with the suicide door access it may be Ok, but if you want the dog in the back, the rear floor is high and many older dogs won't want to jump that distance - and it's quite a restricted area unless you move the rear seat back forward...

 

[sirozha]

I have to agree with 3pete's point that the wife not being thrilled may be a very good reason not to get one.

The other factor is the 65lbs dog. If you're happy to have it on/in the back seats and can live with the suicide door access it may be Ok, but if you want the dog in the back, the rear floor is high and many older dogs won't want to jump that distance - and it's quite a restricted area unless you move the rear seat back forward...

The dog is not an issue. She rides in the back seat when the front seat is occupied. Otherwise, she rides in the front seat. And when she is left in the car alone, she pretends she is a driver. We've had many an occasion when the passers-by were startled when they would walk by the driver side of the car and suddenly see who is in the driver's seat.

We are unsure how willing the dog will be to jump in the back of the i3 with the suicide door swung open, as the lack of the B-pillar seems to be well compensated by the back of the front seat. So, she would have to be wiling to jump up and through a pretty narrow opening leading to the back seat.

The wife presents a much more difficult problem to solve.

 

[sirozha]

Our household has an i3 (2nd one), a VW ID.4, and a Ford Flex.

We have 5 members in our household, including two 5'5" teens and an elder.

Although the VW is the more comfortable car, and the i3 is a bit cramped in the back seat, we usually default to the i3 for around town trips if it's just four of us. It's so easy to park, and is just really svelte in traffic. It's also the most electrically efficient to drive.

The VW is great for 5 and for longer trips – where comfort and greater range come into play.

The Flex largely remains on the sidelines. We don't often need its capacity.

We also have an ID.4 (in addition to the Model Y). We've traveled quite a bit in the ID.4 and decided that we no longer wanted to take it out of town due to the sub-par experience with non-Tesla chargers. Our last trip in the ID.4 was 6,500 miles long, and it was quite challenging and not enjoyable due to the short range of the ID.4, a really bad situation with the Electrify America network, and the locations where the EA decided to place their chargers (Walmart parking lots). Additionally, my ID.4 has now been to the dealer for 24 days for various issues. I need another 7 days for it to stay there, and I will be filing a lemon law claim with VW. We have decided that we will only travel out of town in an EV that has access to the Superchargers. For now, it's the Model Y for us on long roadtrips. In the future, it may be the Rivian R1S or the Cybertruck. The i3 would be replacing the ID.4 as our around-town vehicle only.

My efficiency around town in the AWD ID.4 Pro S has been 3.3 - 3.4 miles per kWh best case scenario. When we test drove the i3 the other day and I pulled up the efficiency stats, it was 2.9 miles per kWh, but I did drive it aggressively to see how fast it could accelerate, and we also took it for half the test drive on an interstate, so we drove it at about 70-75 mph half the test drive. What kind of efficiency are you getting with the i3 around town?

The one I would be buying is the 2019-2020 model year i3 (without range extender) and with the tech package (large display).

Thank you.

 

[sirozha]

Is there any reason that we should not get an i3 with technology package?

I'd say the biggest reason is this:

My wife is not thrilled

:lol:

Generally speaking, the main negatives of the i3 that you will definitely run into are:
1) the tires are expensive, wear fast and can be harder to find than more common sized tires
2) the clamshell doors are annoying in certain circumstances (loading your entire family in an i3 would be slower than a car with 4 normal doors).

The other negatives are things that may or may not happen to you, such as catastrophic AC failure that totals the car. This seems to be VERY rare, but would make you livid if it happened to you.

If you're trying to get the $4k tax rebate, you'll be limited to $25k purchase price from a dealer. Most 2017-2018 94ah battery cars seem to fall under that right now, but you should be aware of it if you're looking for a well optioned car, more-so on the 2018+ 120ah cars.

If you're ok with the range limit (and your wife is game to give the i3 a shot), it's a great city car! But I might be a bit biased...

P.S. - Based on your original post, I assume you're looking exclusively at BEV i3s. The gas engine on the REX adds additional complexity, so I'd recommend going with a BEV unless you are 100% sure you want the REX.

I know about the tires. I've recently replaced the OEM tires on the AWD ID.4 Pro S (20" ones), and I spent about $2,000 for four tires, including alignment, tax, and disposal fees. Today I rotated tires on my Model Y at Discount Tire for the first time, and I was warned by them that my tires are unlikely to make it to 30,000 miles.

Yes, I'm looking exclusively for the non-range-extender variant.

What kind of app connectivity options are there, and do they cost extra? Is there a subscription fee for them? We use the ID.4 "immediate climate" feature to emulate the Tesla Dog Mode in the ID.4. I am able to extend the 30-minute climate timeout from the app without having to return to the car every 30 minutes. Does the i3 have this feature that I can set climate and it lasts for 30 minutes? If so, can I extend this from an app?

Are there any other features that BMW charges a subscription fee for? For example, how about live traffic? Does BMW update the maps automatically in the i3 over the air? If not, is there a map update that can be done at a dealer, and how much does it cost?

Finally, does BMW update the car software regularly? Can this be done OTA or does it require a service visit?

Thank you.

 

[Arm]

To be honest, reading your comments makes me believe you are not really going to like the i3 or will be happy with one. Just being honest and upfront. I could be wrong.

The i3 is the only EV out there (in my opinion) that's less about tech and more about driving experience. It's unique looking, unique feeling, well ahead of its time mechanically and structurally, but won't make you happy from the tech stand point and that's how I see your written language (merely basing it on what you are saying but I could again of course be well off the mark).

This car is about fun. It's not about fancy tech stuff, super fast charging, super fast acceleration, etc. It's about fun. It's about making you feel like you are in a hot hatch from the 80's. It's no thrills, it's lightweight, it's toss-able, it's plenty quick where it needs to be, no fancy displays, no touch screen everything, no OTA updates (except maps), etc.

The car is super efficient when driven normally. Over the past year that I've had mine (2019 i3s), I'm getting 4.7 mi/kWh,

I'm not a fan of the new EVs. I also have a 2021 Model 3 SR. I'll pick my i3s any day of the week or year to drive over the Tesla.

And no offense but I think both the Rivians and the ID.4 are hideous (Rivian taking the cake...the front is absolutely awful). Not to mention Rivian is doing terribly. To each their own. Now if VW only brought over the ID.2....

 

[mojo]

We are unsure how willing the dog will be to jump in the back of the i3 with the suicide door swung open, as the lack of the B-pillar seems to be well compensated by the back of the front seat. So, she would have to be wiling to jump up and through a pretty narrow opening leading to the back seat.

It's not immediately obvious (and the BMW sales person that showed me around an i3 didn't seem to know of their existence) but there's a latch on the back of each front seat headrest which allows the seat back to tilt forward - so unless she's very wide it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[EvanstonI3]

What kind of app connectivity options are there, and do they cost extra? Is there a subscription fee for them? We use the ID.4 "immediate climate" feature to emulate the Tesla Dog Mode in the ID.4. I am able to extend the 30-minute climate timeout from the app without having to return to the car every 30 minutes. Does the i3 have this feature that I can set climate and it lasts for 30 minutes? If so, can I extend this from an app?

Are there any other features that BMW charges a subscription fee for? For example, how about live traffic?

2017 and up have access to Connected Services. Initially they are included with the car for 4 years from the first date of service (sale date).
After that the price is $120/year and RTT (Real Time Traffic) is now part of that. My experience with RTT is that it is delayed and not very good.

You can climatize the cabin remotely but I don't recall if it is "timed" or if it shuts off when the cabin's preset temp is reached.
You can run it again from the app but I'm not certain how many times you can do this. When you leave the car you have the option to keep Climate Services running, but they only last for about 30 minutes. I've never used it.

 

[rougeetnoir]

We have a 2019 i3S. I am still on the front tires at 28700 and look to get over 30k on them at least. The rears have worn more and I might just get 25k on them. We too have a dog, but she travels in a crate in the rear. I have had her loose in the trunk but the trunk door catch can be fussy and unlatch on its own. The door had never come up, but I prefer the crate.

My wife has actually taken the car over. She loves its acceleration on a ramp to enter a freeway and she she is 5.4 so likes the visibility for a smaller person.

We have had only one problem in 28700--a dead 12 volt battery. I typically drive this car about 50 miles at a crack and get well over 4KW at a steady 65-67MPH. I use the 56mph mode around town and the 75mph mode on the highway. I have never signed up for a charging service and hence never go more than 70 miles one way from the house. Hope this all helps.

 

[sirozha]

Are there any regular service requirements on the i3? If so, how often and how much do they cost?

 

[sirozha]

We have a 2019 i3S. I am still on the front ties at 28700 and look to get over 30k on them at least. The rears have worn more and I might just get 25k on them. We too have a dog, but she travels in a crate in the rear. I have had her loose in the trunk but the trunk door catch can be fussy and unlatch on its own. The door had never come up, but I prefer the crate.

My wife has actually taken the car over. She loves its acceleration on a ramp to enter a freeway and she she is 5.4 so likes the visibility for a smaller person.

We have had only one problem in 28700--a dead 12 volt battery. I typically drive this car about 50 miles at a crack and get well over 4KW at a steady 65-67MPH. I use the 56mph mode around town and the 75mph mode on the highway. I have never signed up for a charging service and hence never go more than 70 miles one way from the house. Hope this all helps.

This is helpful. Thank you.

 

[alohart]

Are there any regular service requirements on the i3? If so, how often and how much do they cost?

The BEV version of the i3 has recommended service every 2 years. That includes a brake fluid change and a general inspection. There's nothing special about changing the brake fluid, so any decent mechanic could do this. I bought a pressure brake fluid bleeder from Amazon and have changed the brake fluid myself twice. I've never paid to have brake fluid changed, so I can't help you with the cost. If I were going to have the brake fluid changed by others, I would avoid BMW dealers whose labor rates are very high.

Depending on how much climate control is used and the cleanliness of the air, the cabin air filters might need replacing after 2 years. We don't drive much and have very clean air, so the cabin filters in our i3 didn't need changing even after 4 years. Decent cabin filters can be purchased from FilterHeads for $12.69. Changing them can be frustrating because one must lie in the passenger footwell while dealing with a fiddly plastic door that must be opened and removed to access the two filters that are stacked one above the other. Reattaching the door so that it can be closed was difficult for me, but I finally succeeded. I don't know what a mechanic would charge to do this.

If you can afford buying a 2019 or later i3, do so. These i3's have the largest battery pack, 120 Ah (42 kWh), as well as general changes and improvements that were made starting with the 2018 model year. In our ideal EV driving environment, I've averaged 5.2 mi/kWh over 9 years which gives me just over 200 miles of actual range in our 2019 BEV. Included in the Tech and Driving Assistance Package in 2019 and later i3's are adaptive LED headlights with automatic high beams and cornering lights that are a big improvement over the LED low beams and halogen high beams of pre-2018 i3's. After enjoying the Tech and Driving Assistance Package in our former 2014 BEV, I wouldn't buy a 2019 BEV without it which eliminated many used i3's. Although 2018 i3's have most of the mid-cycle improvements, they have only a 94 Ah (33 kWh) battery pack. The 94 and 120 Ah battery cells seem to resist degradation really well whereas the original 60 Ah cells (2014-2016 i3's) could degrade fairly rapidly (certainly not in all cases). You should not consider any i3 earlier than a 2017 model.

If you live in a climate where cabin heating would be needed, make sure that your buy an i3 with a heat pump. The heat pump was standard on early BEV's but became optional on later BEV's, for some reason. Without a heat pump, cabin heating uses an electrical resistance element which is much less efficient than a heat pump until ambient temperatures drop quite low. At very low temperatures, even i3's with a heat pump also use an electrical resistance element for cabin heating.

I don't know which trim level to recommend when a dog will be in the car. Most late-model i3's have the lowest trim level, Deka World, which omits some of the interior LED lighting and maybe some other features that Giga World (leather and wool upholstery) and Tera World (all leather upholstery) include. I don't know whether Mega World (second lowest trim level) has all the features of the top two trim levels.

The i3 suspension is pretty firm. Avoid buying an i3 with optional 20" wheels or an i3S if you want a more compliant ride and all-season tires that wear longer than the 20" summer tires.

Good luck!

 

[Arm]

Are there any regular service requirements on the i3? If so, how often and how much do they cost?

The BEV version of the i3 has recommended service every 2 years. That includes a brake fluid change and a general inspection. There's nothing special about changing the brake fluid, so any decent mechanic could do this. I bought a pressure brake fluid bleeder from Amazon and have changed the brake fluid myself twice. I've never paid to have brake fluid changed, so I can't help you with the cost. If I were going to have the brake fluid changed by others, I would avoid BMW dealers whose labor rates are very high.

You can change the brake fluid at the dealer for around $180-200. Every two years isn't necessary...so stretch that out to three or four and it's well worth the price and coverage the dealer offers if anything happens to go wrong.

 

[sirozha]

How do I know if the i3 I’m considering has a heat pump?

 

[eNate]

How do I know if the i3 I’m considering has a heat pump?

Plug the VIN of the BEV you're looking at into mdecoder.com

Under 'Comfort and Interior Equipment,' look for:

S4T9 Heat Pump

 

[sirozha]

How do I know if the i3 I’m considering has a heat pump?

Plug the VIN of the BEV you're looking at into mdecoder.com

Under 'Comfort and Interior Equipment,' look for:

S4T9 Heat Pump

Thank you!

 

[3pete]

What kind of app connectivity options are there, and do they cost extra? Is there a subscription fee for them? We use the ID.4 "immediate climate" feature to emulate the Tesla Dog Mode in the ID.4. I am able to extend the 30-minute climate timeout from the app without having to return to the car every 30 minutes. Does the i3 have this feature that I can set climate and it lasts for 30 minutes? If so, can I extend this from an app?

Are there any other features that BMW charges a subscription fee for? For example, how about live traffic? Does BMW update the maps automatically in the i3 over the air? If not, is there a map update that can be done at a dealer, and how much does it cost?

Finally, does BMW update the car software regularly? Can this be done OTA or does it require a service visit?

Thank you.

I have to agree with Arm that you will probably be disappointed with BMW's technology in the i3 if you are familiar with Tesla's approach to software.

BMW's app will be slower, less capable, and probably less reliable. It routinely took 2+ minutes for commands to go through to the car back when I was allowed to use the app. My overall success/failure rate on commands sent to the car was probably about 50%. Supposedly the newer cars are better, but still, if you read the reviews in the app store you'll likely see some common complaints.

(I lost access to remote services with the 3g shutdown because BMW claims it's impossible to install a 4G telecommunications unit in a pre 2017 car, even though this is untrue, which is a decent indicator of their approach to technology.)

The adaptive cruise control will probably feel less refined than you're used to, but I have heard later i3s are better here than early ones.


BMW does *not* do regular updates to the car's firmware or software. It is possible to get updated to a new version but that is only through the dealer and is typically only done to fix issues, it doesn't give you new features.

It is possible to update the maps in the infotainment unit, but this is also not OTA and may involve paying a fee for an unlock code. Even with those updates, the in-car maps will be out of date compared to google maps, so it's just easier to use your phone.

 

[Arm]

What kind of app connectivity options are there, and do they cost extra? Is there a subscription fee for them? We use the ID.4 "immediate climate" feature to emulate the Tesla Dog Mode in the ID.4. I am able to extend the 30-minute climate timeout from the app without having to return to the car every 30 minutes. Does the i3 have this feature that I can set climate and it lasts for 30 minutes? If so, can I extend this from an app?

Are there any other features that BMW charges a subscription fee for? For example, how about live traffic? Does BMW update the maps automatically in the i3 over the air? If not, is there a map update that can be done at a dealer, and how much does it cost?

Finally, does BMW update the car software regularly? Can this be done OTA or does it require a service visit?

Thank you.

I have to agree with Arm that you will probably be disappointed with BMW's technology in the i3 if you are familiar with Tesla's approach to software.

BMW's app will be slower, less capable, and probably less reliable. It routinely took 2+ minutes for commands to go through to the car back when I was allowed to use the app. My overall success/failure rate on commands sent to the car was probably about 50%. Supposedly the newer cars are better, but still, if you read the reviews in the app store you'll likely see some common complaints.

(I lost access to remote services with the 3g shutdown because BMW claims it's impossible to install a 4G telecommunications unit in a pre 2017 car, even though this is untrue, which is a decent indicator of their approach to technology.)

The adaptive cruise control will probably feel less refined than you're used to, but I have heard later i3s are better here than early ones.


BMW does *not* do regular updates to the car's firmware or software. It is possible to get updated to a new version but that is only through the dealer and is typically only done to fix issues, it doesn't give you new features.

It is possible to update the maps in the infotainment unit, but this is also not OTA and may involve paying a fee for an unlock code. Even with those updates, the in-car maps will be out of date compared to google maps, so it's just easier to use your phone.

Actually the maps are updated 4 times a year OTA now.