Uk ecotricity charging

[nickthorley]

I have seen the ecotricity chargers on motorway services for some time now and always assumed they were identical. I had a good look at them today and found one side of the machine has an AC charger and then on the other side, one had a connector labeled Nissan and the other station one to fit an i3. I presume only the Bmw one can be used? This leaves one power connector at each services which as the number of i3's increase is surely going to be a bottleneck?

 

[jadnashuanh]

Most cars can use the same level 2 EVSE, but there are at least three different DC fast charging standards out there: CCS (the i3 uses this - at least that's what it's called in the USA), CHADeMo (Leaf uses this) and Tesla (they have adapters for some other choices). You can only use the system designed specifically for your car. The i3 can use up to 50Kw/hr CCS units (well, if you find one bigger, it will still work but be limited to 50Kw). As far as I've found, there is no converter for the i3 when it comes to CCS units. It can also use up to 7400W on a level 2 units (unless you have one designed for 3-phase power available in your country), which at nominal Euro voltages is in the 30-32A range. Again, if it's smaller or larger, no problem (except smaller will charge slower - bigger won't above the 32A), but your time to fully charged may vary. Same is true with DC fast charging.

To fully recharge the i3 on CCS will take longer than 30-minutes, but any time above that becomes quite slow, so it might not be useful to continue, especially if you're paying only for time, not power used.

 

[psquare]

Ecotricity provides different units. The "Nissan" labelled ones you've spotted do not provide CCS charging. As Jim pointed out, the AC Rapid/Chademo units do not provide a rapid charge for your i3 and actually tell you (if you have CCS option on your i3 and registered your car with the Electric Highway app) that your car is "incompatible" with the unit.

Therefore, now that Ecotricity has introduced a charging-for-charging scheme, the Electric Highway app doesn't allow i3 drivers anymore to use the AC Rapid units. However if you check the charging locator in the app, you find over 100 CCS units in the UK now, which can be used by your i3 through the Electric Highway app.

Hope this helps.

 

[nickthorley]

Yes it does help but doesnt solve the issue that one CCS carver for a services that was nearly full isn't much ( assuming the ev use grows) appreciate ecotricity is only there to make money and I know the charging points are expensive but if people have to wait 1 hour to even get into a charger then the take up of ev's will reduce which is sad. I guess only solution is for the government to step in and add more or even the shops in the services contribute to the cost. I don't know the technical issues but isn't it possible to have these boxes able to rapid charge a number of different types of ev - maybe with a standard termination and you buy an ecotricity converter for your type of cars. If all points could be used for all cars then maybe they would install more instead of having to guess which brand will sell best

 

[psquare]

Yes it does help but doesnt solve the issue that one CCS carver for a services that was nearly full isn't much ( assuming the ev use grows) appreciate ecotricity is only there to make money and I know the charging points are expensive but if people have to wait 1 hour to even get into a charger then the take up of ev's will reduce which is sad. I guess only solution is for the government to step in and add more or even the shops in the services contribute to the cost. I don't know the technical issues but isn't it possible to have these boxes able to rapid charge a number of different types of ev - maybe with a standard termination and you buy an ecotricity converter for your type of cars. If all points could be used for all cars then maybe they would install more instead of having to guess which brand will sell best

The charging units (CCS, Chademo, etc) will need to scale as time moves on. How often do you see Ecotricity CCS chargers with queues in front of them? Maybe at peak times on the M25 Cobham or Gateway, yes.

Re Ecotricity "to make money", please keep in mind that they a) provided free electricity and rapid chargers for 5 years b) had NO funding for the rapid units from the government and c) still offer free charging to Ecotricity customers, thereby allowing EV drivers to fund renewable energy. The last point is something all EV owners should look into anyway (Ecotricity or not). Other providers like CYC have far more rip-off CCS unit pricing, but never got the bad press Ecotricity wrongly receives.

Since the charges were introduced, I've noticed that a lot of motorway chargers are now available, whereas before these were hogged by unnecessary EV charging, like Outlanders. The app also seems to confirm this. As an Ecotricity customer -who always anticipated this move anyway- I've welcomed the introduction of charges, but I think it's a tad too expensive. Prices will come down over time, I am sure.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Not only are the plugs different between the various DC fast charging systems (not to be confused with 'fast' AC charging, which is a different thing entirely), the protocols are quite different too...as a result, while maybe technically possible, I doubt you'll see inexpensive, readily available converter cable/plug devices show up anywhere - it's not simply a new plug and rearranging the pins.

FWIW, on the CHADEMO system, they use dedicated pins for the charger/vehicle communications...the CCS standard utilizes the ACV input lines (which are not powered) as the signal lines when doing a DC fast charge, and the communications protocol is also different as is the signaling method between the two. So, if one were to try to make a conversion, it would need to be a smart computer to translate the two signals into something compatible. A DC fast charging system is comprised of two major parts: a monster DC power supply, and a computer to adjust it and talk to the vehicle...most of the recent DC fast chargers only need a new cable and a change/addition of an interface card to add the second charging capability. Often, though, they cannot power both at the same time, since they're using the same power supply. Think of it this way...this is a high current (often in the 50Kw/hr range), variable and high voltage power supply that might see fairly constant use...when lots of power is involved, there's a fair amount of heat and the whole thing must typically be weatherproof while operating at both hot/cold, and snow, rain, icing conditions...to get this, they are not cheap. Then, the power input is closer to what might be needed to power a good portion of a residential block of houses. This is one reason why it would be unlikely to see one in a residential situation, ignoring the cost of the device itself.

The i3 was designed as a city car...shorter ranges, tighter conditions. If you want to or need to use it for longer ranges, there are compromises. Certainly, some do, but it's sort of like using a pair of pliers when a proper wrench is called for...it can work, but maybe not as well! To this, BMW is moving towards hybrids, and their next I-car will likely address longer ranges. Probably part of the reason why it has not happened yet is for the infrastructure to try to catch up. The second part is, battery tech is constantly evolving, and economical, sizeable battery packs are still not readily available. That is changing.

 

[busaman]

Yes it does help but doesnt solve the issue that one CCS carver for a services that was nearly full isn't much ( assuming the ev use grows) appreciate ecotricity is only there to make money and I know the charging points are expensive but if people have to wait 1 hour to even get into a charger then the take up of ev's will reduce which is sad. I guess only solution is for the government to step in and add more or even the shops in the services contribute to the cost. I don't know the technical issues but isn't it possible to have these boxes able to rapid charge a number of different types of ev - maybe with a standard termination and you buy an ecotricity converter for your type of cars. If all points could be used for all cars then maybe they would install more instead of having to guess which brand will sell best

The charging units (CCS, Chademo, etc) will need to scale as time moves on. How often do you see Ecotricity CCS chargers with queues in front of them? Maybe at peak times on the M25 Cobham or Gateway, yes.

Re Ecotricity "to make money", please keep in mind that they a) provided free electricity and rapid chargers for 5 years b) had NO funding for the rapid units from the government and c) still offer free charging to Ecotricity customers, thereby allowing EV drivers to fund renewable energy. The last point is something all EV owners should look into anyway (Ecotricity or not). Other providers like CYC have far more rip-off CCS unit pricing, but never got the bad press Ecotricity wrongly receives.

Since the charges were introduced, I've noticed that a lot of motorway chargers are now available, whereas before these were hogged by unnecessary EV charging, like Outlanders. The app also seems to confirm this. As an Ecotricity customer -who always anticipated this move anyway- I've welcomed the introduction of charges, but I think it's a tad too expensive. Prices will come down over time, I am sure.

i hope so at the current pricing its almost the same price as using my rex and 10x slower per fill, and if you work it out you wouldnt like paying 40p per unit at home (which is what it costs) after all Ecotricity are a generator of electricty ...

it seems a bit of a rip of when the garage that pumps the gasoline within feet away is paying 10p per unit to run and we have to pay 40p per unit for what is effectivly coming from the same tap..

 

[psquare]

i hope so at the current pricing its almost the same price as using my rex and 10x slower per fill, and if you work it out you wouldnt like paying 40p per unit at home (which is what it costs) after all Ecotricity are a generator of electricty ...

I am not sure how you arrive at a price of "40p per unit at home". Below is what I pay with Ecotricity on Economy 7:

Peak tariff (8:30am - 1:30am): 16.5p per kWh
Off-Peak tariff (1:30am - 8:30am): 6.9p per kWh
Standing charge: 27.39p per day

Since I've owned the i3 and had the Economy 7 meter installed, I am paying £2.23 / day in electricity combined for house and car. My average consumption is 17.18 kWh/day combined for house and car. Therefore, I am paying 12.98p per day on average, obviously averaged over on and off-peak and including the standing charge. Therefore, your claim for 40p per unit at home would be wrong. But maybe you're comparing it to "as if you were paying this at home"? I am not sure...

Ecotricity also give me a £40 discount per year since I own an electric car. In addition, they now let me use their CCS pumps for free. These figures are not included in the above costs and would lower them even further. I also own solar panels (generation effect is not included in the consumption figures above), which contribute to my annual electricity bill and lower it by about £400. The offsetting of the PV solar brings down my electricity bill by another 50%. However, at this point you have to keep in mind that I obviously had to pay upfront for the installation of the panel array.

Before anybody asks, I do not work for them or neither am I affiliated with Ecotricity. I am simply someone who compared suppliers and decided that a renewable energy provider makes more sense. You can find lower prices, for sure. But for me it was important to support a supplier of renewable energy.

 

[busaman]

i hope so at the current pricing its almost the same price as using my rex and 10x slower per fill, and if you work it out you wouldnt like paying 40p per unit at home (which is what it costs) after all Ecotricity are a generator of electricty ...

I am not sure how you arrive at a price of "40p per unit at home". Below is what I pay with Ecotricity on Economy 7:

Peak tariff (8:30am - 1:30am): 16.5p per kWh
Off-Peak tariff (1:30am - 8:30am): 6.9p per kWh
Standing charge: 27.39p per day

Since I've owned the i3 and had the Economy 7 meter installed, I am paying £2.23 / day in electricity combined for house and car. My average consumption is 17.18 kWh/day combined for house and car. Therefore, I am paying 12.98p per day on average, obviously averaged over on and off-peak and including the standing charge. Therefore, your claim for 40p per unit at home would be wrong. But maybe you're comparing it to "as if you were paying this at home"? I am not sure...

Ecotricity also give me a £40 discount per year since I own an electric car. In addition, they now let me use their CCS pumps for free. These figures are not included in the above costs and would lower them even further. I also own solar panels (generation effect is not included in the consumption figures above), which contribute to my annual electricity bill and lower it by about £400. The offsetting of the PV solar brings down my electricity bill by another 50%. However, at this point you have to keep in mind that I obviously had to pay upfront for the installation of the panel array.

Before anybody asks, I do not work for them or neither am I affiliated with Ecotricity. I am simply someone who compared suppliers and decided that a renewable energy provider makes more sense. You can find lower prices, for sure. But for me it was important to support a supplier of renewable energy.

no what i was saying is the cost at the chgarging stations works out at 40p per unit/kwhr and you would not want to pay that at home..

 

[jadnashuanh]

The cost of a CCS unit, plus the land, and installation, could easily exceed 20K pounds...then, the things do require some maintenance, even if it's just to change the air filters they use for cooling. Many of the units are networked, and that requires a connection and fee. Those costs must be recovered as well as the cost of the actual power that is dispensed. If you factor in the (retail) cost of the EVSE plus installation at your home, your cost/unit will go up as well. The thing is a monster power supply, so the watts going in is more than the watts they deliver to the vehicle (conversion inefficiencies, cooling fans, logic board, etc.). SOmebody has to pay for that as well.

 

[busaman]

The cost of a CCS unit, plus the land, and installation, could easily exceed 20K pounds...then, the things do require some maintenance, even if it's just to change the air filters they use for cooling. Many of the units are networked, and that requires a connection and fee. Those costs must be recovered as well as the cost of the actual power that is dispensed. If you factor in the (retail) cost of the EVSE plus installation at your home, your cost/unit will go up as well. The thing is a monster power supply, so the watts going in is more than the watts they deliver to the vehicle (conversion inefficiencies, cooling fans, logic board, etc.). SOmebody has to pay for that as well.

we are talking about a generating company that had funding from th e EU (indirectly the tax payer) to pay for all this so im not buying into the setup fees or running costs if they charged the std rate for power it would still make a profit as they generate it via solar/wind..

 

[jadnashuanh]

The hardware for a 50Kw CCS unit is nearly $20K (US), not counting the land and installation costs. SOmebody has to pay for it, even if the power was free. Do you think that the windmills or solar cells come for free, too? They need to be bought, installed, and maintained, even if the energy itself is 'free'. For rough numbers, 40p is about $0.50 US, so if the thing costs $20K, that's 40,000Kwhr assuming the electricity was 'free'...that's recharging 40,000/18 (for an i3 to full, probably less on a single charge) or over 2200 charging sessions. Considering the thing isn't 100% efficient, probably more like 2500 sessions.

 

[busaman]

The hardware for a 50Kw CCS unit is nearly $20K (US), not counting the land and installation costs. SOmebody has to pay for it, even if the power was free. Do you think that the windmills or solar cells come for free, too? They need to be bought, installed, and maintained, even if the energy itself is 'free'. For rough numbers, 40p is about $0.50 US, so if the thing costs $20K, that's 40,000Kwhr assuming the electricity was 'free'...that's recharging 40,000/18 (for an i3 to full, probably less on a single charge) or over 2200 charging sessions. Considering the thing isn't 100% efficient, probably more like 2500 sessions.

jim i dont think you understand how it was funded the entire project was funded by the EU (a non profit making organisation) primarily from england french and german govenments that included all the infrastructure and maintenance. it was deemed as a project for the european electric highway not as a chance to make a vast profit.. these chargers are now on par with gasoline prices "why would you wait all that time for a charge when you can be on your way in 5 mins for the same price on gasoline..

Also once you have plugged in its £6 for half an hour not how much charge you put in its per session.. and ive never managed a full charge in 30 mins. where as a top up of 5litres of gas you only pay for 5 litres not what the tank can hold..

 

[Jonnyp42]

There is actually some debate as to who paid for these Rapids, Ecotricity claim they were not OLEV funded.

 

[busaman]

There is actually some debate as to who paid for these Rapids, Ecotricity claim they were not OLEV funded.

well from the published articles i have seen it was EU funded even ecotricity advertised the fact they were in partnership with the EU so read from it what you choose it doesnt alter the fact it is now as expensive as gasoline and much less convienient (a typical gas station has at least 8 pumps and takes a few minutes wheras chargers have 1-2 outlets with at least half an hour)

 

[electricvirgin]

I have just used one of these chargers, it all went smoothly via the app so thats good.

However i was only charging for 26 minutes before the charger stopped, which seems a trifle mean. Had they not charged me £6 i would not have minded! I did get about 75 miles worth in the time (i now have a new i3 with the bigger battery) and wondered if the early cut off related to how much energy had been used, although i dont recall reading any disclaimers about this?

As noted before i do believe ECOtricity did receive government and/or EU funding for their network, although the labyrinthine way in which such bureaucracy functions is too dull for me to really investigate without falling asleep.

 

[busaman]

I have just used one of these chargers, it all went smoothly via the app so thats good.

However i was only charging for 26 minutes before the charger stopped, which seems a trifle mean. Had they not charged me £6 i would not have minded! I did get about 75 miles worth in the time (i now have a new i3 with the bigger battery) and wondered if the early cut off related to how much energy had been used, although i dont recall reading any disclaimers about this?

As noted before i do believe ECOtricity did receive government and/or EU funding for their network, although the labyrinthine way in which such bureaucracy functions is too dull for me to really investigate without falling asleep.

thats good to hear the first week i tried using the app, capel st mary had no network so did not work, cambrige services both pumps broken, and corely services one pump broken and the one that did work would not release from my car for an hour..

from the info they provide it should be 30 mins..

 

[FrancisJeffries]

Ecotricity also give me a £40 discount per year since I own an electric car. In addition, they now let me use their CCS pumps for free. These figures are not included in the above costs and would lower them even further. I also own solar panels (generation effect is not included in the consumption figures above), which contribute to my annual electricity bill and lower it by about £400. The offsetting of the PV solar brings down my electricity bill by another 50%. However, at this point you have to keep in mind that I obviously had to pay upfront for the installation of the panel array.

Before anybody asks, I do not work for them or neither am I affiliated with Ecotricity. I am simply someone who compared suppliers and decided that a renewable energy provider makes more sense. You can find lower prices, for sure. But for me it was important to support a supplier of renewable energy.

I'm an almost identical case to psquare. I have just got my 94Ah i3Rex, and have used the Ecotricity free CCS chargers twice. Both times, the charge ran for 30 minutes (at ~110A, ~325V!) and put 20kWh into the battery each time - once from 6.5% starting charge and once from 18.5% starting charge. 20kWh is good for at least 80miles of my motorway driving - almost as far as a tankful of petrol. The upside is those miles are free , the downside is it takes 30 minutes to charge , as compared with around 5 minutes :| for petrol refuelling.

 

[Passivate1949]

I returned on Friday from a trip to Glasgow in my 2015 i3 ReX. I covered almost 900 miles in a couple of days and became quite familiar with Ecotricity's chargers. Notwithstanding the history of who paid for what, I also feel that they haven't yet got the price right. It is noticeable that the pumps are less frequently used. I did not have to wait anywhere to use the pumps. I would rather pay for what I use as this seems by far the most logical approach and approximately 30 minutes seems a strange way to create confidence in the process. However, a cynic might say that absolutely everything else you by in a motorway services is generally exhorbitant - food, petrol, coffee - so why not electricity!

En route a couple of curious things happened, presumably as a result of the changeover process. One pump was entirely free - no app or card required, just connect! At least it was available!

In the torrential rain on Friday the car and the pump didn't get on so I had to abandon one attempt to charge and just run on the generator. It would have been a nightmare for a BEV. The ac chargers are so hit and miss plus the charge rate is horribly slow.

When I do connect via the app it works well but what I assume is a mistake in me setting up the app it always says that CCS is not compatible with my i3! You can just opt to continue, however.

I recognise that the i3 is not intended as a motorway car but at 70 mph (about 10 mph less than the average speed of traffic on the M6) it is great and the consumption of both petrol and electricity is reasonable. If the idea is to benefit from total cost of ownership then even at £6 a time I reckon that I was averaging around 6.5p a mile. Helped by a couple of freebies. My old diesel BM would have been double that but the trip would probably have been 4 hours shorter! I guess you just have to plan accordingly!!

All chargers in Glasgow seem to be free. There is a great free rapid charger at Abington car park off the A74M.

Regards

A

 

[nickthorley]

@Passivate1949 I believe the latest model Rex can do 120 miles per charge. Say my daily commute is 80 miles ( total) and let's assume a cruising speed of 80 - do you think I would make it without Rex? If I then lowered to 70 - how much of a difference do you think it would make. Finally have you noticed running the air con in the recent hot weather has reduced the range much?

We will see what a harsh winter also does to range