Should I get one?

[cmj912]

Hi,
I registered so that I could ask some questions about people's experiences even though I've pretty much read the whole board top to bottom already anyway I apologize in advance for my n00b-ness. I live in Providence, RI. There is a 2015 i3 REX Mega with the Tech + Driving Assistant package that is about 20 miles north of here at a Boston 'burb BMW dealer.

This would be the most expensive car I've ever owned. My insurance would go up some (they say it is my zip code...Providence is noted for insurance fraud) and of course the lease payment is higher than my current payment - so a bit of a stretch. Still, going through with the less would erase the negative equity I current have in my pickup when its over. Long story. It is mostly financially possible because there are some big discounts on 2015s.

I've been watching the i3 for some time. I currently have a late model 4WD pickup truck. My commute is less than 5 miles, one way. The heat is not even warm sometimes when I get to work. I basically go to work, home for lunch, then back, then home. I run an errand after work and take my dog to the park on weekends and that's about it.

That said:
1) I drove the car and really liked it. Really a very admirable collection of technology. Question, though: do you think the car could handle winter here in the city with the all-season standard tires? It says "Mega REX 19-inch alloy wheel" on the sticker (I have a printout of the window sticker) but not what kind of tires we're talking. I was kind of scared about what would happen driving with the regenerative braking on an icy road.

2) We have an outdoor outlet in the driveway. The house has circuit breaker panels, but I'm sure its 100AMP and the outlet is kinda old. There's a level 2 charger at AAA .75 miles away, but that's about it. The landlord said "maybe" when I asked if we could get the equivalent of "an outdoor dryer outlet". What are my options? Will I be able to get by with the occasional use cable and visiting the charge station maybe on weekends or something until we can get the outlet sorted?

3) It has to be a 4 year lease.

I basically feel like I'm wasting a lot of gas in the truck, which it was a mistake to get. It is a good, reliable vehicle, but I figure I'm destroying its engine with short trips, never using the 4WD and I feel like my weekly mileage is well within what the range of the i3 can handle.

I just wondered what you might think. Thanks in advance. Sorry this is so long.

 

[I33t]

My commute is less than 5 miles, one way. The heat is not even warm sometimes when I get to work. I basically go to work, home for lunch, then back, then home. I run an errand after work and take my dog to the park on weekends and that's about it.

So, per day, we are talking about 20 miles per day?

I wouldn't bother with the REX, just get the BEV. Even if you use the Occasional Use Charger, it will easily top up your 20 mile commute overnight.

And yes, you are a perfect candidate for an electric vehicle. I'd say go for it

 

[cmj912]

I just thought it might be handy to have the REX in case of having to go visit my parents or something (they live in the country). Not super far, but no nearby charging. Also, I understood that in the US the occasional-use cable takes a really long time. Most older houses around here are on older 100 amp systems.

 

[brorob]

I'm in my second month of a 2 year lease with the REX model, still loving it. Lunch time errands are now fun with this peppy beast. I drive 22 miles each way to work, which has a level 2 EVSE so I charge it for free during the week. The REX is nice for shorter weekend trips. I think the car is great for my commute.

Why the 4 year lease? I chose 2 over 3 since this technology is changing rapidly.

I've had one opportunity to drive it with the all season tires in winter conditions and I wasn't happy with them. Now I have been spoiled with AWD vehicles running Blizzaks in the winter and I was aware that this would be a completely different drive. It didn't feel unsafe but I didn't feel confident either. I did a few tests stopping at the bottom of a small incline and the car took a little bit to get moving. If you plan to drive it far in the winter, I'd recommend true winter tires or driving your 4WD. I haven't found any good prices on a winter wheel setup. It might be fine for your short commute though. I'd be curious to hear other comments about winter driving with the all seasons.

I have only used the occasional charging unit for home charging since my work provides a majority of my charging. With the car charger set to max (you have 3 charging levels programmable on the car), it takes about 19 hours for a full charge. This draws about 12 Amps. If you're using an old outlet, you may have to use the low or medium charging levels which will add more time for charging. Hopefully you can get an outdoor outlet installed, which isn't a difficult installation.

Hope that's helpful information.

 

[I33t]

I just thought it might be handy to have the REX in case of having to go visit my parents or something (they live in the country). Not super far, but no nearby charging. Also, I understood that in the US the occasional-use cable takes a really long time. Most older houses around here are on older 100 amp systems.

If your parents or something have adequate power, just get a Juicebox or similar: http://www.emotorwerks.com/juicebox

A level 2 charger that can be carried in the car and charge in way less time that the standard charger.

The REX is there to quell the range anxiety fears of people who have plenty of electric range in their day to day driving. People who need to drive past their electric range may actually need the REX or another EV with greater range. By the sound of your driving, you should be able to do without the REX if you want to.

 

[jadnashuanh]

It's a rear-wheel drive vehicle with maximum torque available at zero RPM...it is easy to spin the tire (momentarily, the logic prevents nearly all of that) with the all-seasons, even with the factory winter tire set. I did buy a set, mostly because my driveway is quite long and the first 300' or so is very steep. Pay a lot to keep it cleared, but the winter tires are definitely better than the all-seasons. I had no issues with the car last winter with the winter tires on, but I think that I would have had I left the all-seasons on. Think of them as insurance...you'll complain until you need them, and then they may save your butt.

If you won't have access to a second vehicle and don't want to rent or borrow one for longer trips, you'd want the REx. Or, if not having to stop every hour or so after the first chunk of miles to refill the 1.9g gas tank, you might want something else. I do really enjoy driving mine (a BEV), and it gets used nearly all of the time, but I had the ability to keep my ICE for those other times.

One nice thing on (most?) EVs, is that you can prewarm the cabin so you can clear the snow and ice off easily, and the car is comfortable when you get in. It can use up more power than the L1 unit that comes with the car can provide, so you may not leave with a totally full battery, but it should still be close, and more than enough for your daily commute. A typical L2 unit can keep up with the preconditioning AND warming the battery pack up (not required, but helps extend the range in the winter)...if done with the L1 unit, as I said, you'll be using more power than the EVSE can provide the last couple of hours before you depart (in the cold, conditioning the battery pack can take over 3-hours). Again, that's not required, but if you want the cabin warmed on a schedule, and you don't want to have to initiate it manually each time, the only way to get that is to warm the batteries and precondition while setting a departure time either in the car or via the app in advance.

Last thought, though, the car will likely come with the lastest software which means it will unlock the EVSE from the car once it is charged. That also means that anyone that wants could unplug your portable EVSE and walk away with it without setting off any alarms or breaking anything.

 

[cmj912]

Thank you all for your information, that helps a lot.

However, I'm still on the fence. Maybe that's because I liked the car so much.

-Yes, there is the issue of the 4 year lease. That's what makes it affordable for me. In 2016 I probably wouldn't be able to afford the new model. There's like $9k in incentives right now which is making it doable. I understand that in 4 years the car will probably be old tech...but...

-I don't know that I'd be able to afford to buy an EVSE, a set of winter rims/tires, and pay to have an outlet routed right now. That's why I asked about charging "for now".
The JuiceBox™ 30 - 30-Amp EVSE with 24-foot cable looks like that would be good, and its inexpensive for home. I know nothing about electrics though or if that's the one I'd need. I'm trying to convince the landlord it wouldn't burn the house down.

So as far as preconditioning can I just turn on the battery warming and the car's heat from the house when I'm ready for it to do it...and not set a schedule? I think because I'd be on a 'predatory' charging schedule (when I can) I'd need to not preprogram anything right yet.

The issue of the charger unlocking when the car is full might not be an issue at level 1, but I can see how it might be a serious issue for us if I bought an EVSE. The house has a wide driveway (duplex) with parking for 4. I would park closest to the house, passenger side in. At night, you'd probably be able to see a tempting "glow" because of the blinking charge port from the street. That makes me a little nervous.

I was told by the BMW dealer that I have til the end of the month. Of course, he'll probably subtract money by the day for my trade, but inventory seems to be there so I have a little time to think about it. Since I've never had an electric car it is kind of tough to put together in my mind everything I'd need.

 

[Jeffj]

@ 20 miles a day, the OUC (level 1) EVSE that comes with the car will charge it back up in ~5 hours (figure 5 miles/hour, slower on the last 10% - maybe 2.5 miles/hour of charging). If you really are only going to be going 20 miles a day, you could get by with the OUC. Just make sure the outlet you use is up to snuff.

 

[coreperformance]

My situation is somewhat like the OP's.

This is the most expensive car I've ever owned, too, and it was a stretch to replace my 1998 Honda with it

I'm in Texas, so I don't use winter tires.

My condo association allowed me to install a charger. Before it was installed, I charged at a grocery store a mile away, and walked home. I would sort out how you are going to charge before plunking down $30K on the car. Research EVSEs. As far as burning down the house - the EVSE is there to prevent that. The whole point of the EVSE is to control the flow of electricity so that it can shut off if unsafe conditions are detected. The glow from the charging light on the car goes off after a few minutes. If you're worried about the led status light on the EVSE, put tape over it.

I'm not sure if pre-conditioning works when charging on level 1? Preconditioning may take more energy than can be replenished, so your charge % may drop.

Don't feel pressured into buying this car at this price. The 2016s are coming out, so prices should drop. People will soon be turning in the first leased cars, so prices should drop, and there will be some inventory. I got a loaded used 2014 bev in July for $31k. Prices are lower now. Mine was Certified Pre-Owned, so they extended my warranty for another 2 years past the original 4 year warranty. I didn't get the $7500 tax rebate, but my price was low enough that I was ok with that.

My bev range in the Texas heat was about 65 miles. (blasting the air conditioning, driving it like I stole it in comfort mode) Winter range will be less than the 80+ miles folks get in nice weather. Will the winter range get you to the country? Can you swap cars with a friend when you need to? I take a road trip about once a year, but I'll rent a car for that.


These were some of the considerations I had to work through. The logical, pragmatic considerations. You don't want to make a leap and feel trapped in a bad decision.

The above has all been my attempt at a responsible response. But my initial reaction when reading you headline was YESYESYES!!!!

 

[cmj912]

I just took one last swing at the dealer based on the "don't feel pressured to buy this car at this price" phrase.

There does seem to be plenty of inventory in the area and I'd really rather not bite my nails about affordability because of having to lay out some extra money for administrative costs: charger, extra set of tires, and an electrician to visit the famous outlet.

One thing I was told...if you go through BMW Financial I was told they send all the paperwork to the dealer in your area, and other dealers can't "see" the terms you were offered without submitting another app. This may be the fine art of car sales BS (to prevent me from allowing another dealer to compete) but this is what I was told when I called another, closer dealer because I wanted to take another look at the car in general without driving 27 miles at rush hour.

As far as the other considerations:
1) Yes, I think I could make it to Mom and Dad's which is 27 miles each way.
2) Thanks for the EVSE info! So what you mean is the LED around the charging door doesn't light up the whole time? You know, that blue pulsating that turns green when it is full? That would be AWESOME if it doesn't glow constantly. I can just see it sitting in the driveway at 2am like..."come, see what this is".
3) I was obviously super-fond of Comfort mode, but for commutes without the dog I think I could get away with seat heater with some prewarming. If the seat heater works in EcoPro.
4) There is a dryer-style outlet in my KITCHEN of all places, very high up on the wall, so I'm guessing that's an electric range outlet? At least I know they think something can draw that much power from my apartment.

 

[jadnashuanh]

To me, the car is a blast to drive...quiet, great torque off the line and fast enough for all but the speed freaks. For running around town and most tasks, it has plenty of room, but your needs may vary. Very few places where you can legally exceed the max speed of the vehicle, but beware that running at that rate will deplete the battery at an astonishingly fast rate.

I've heard they may have a different model on the newest i3's, but the original EVSE, level 1 that comes with it in the USA is maxed out at 12A. This is so that it can be plugged into the fairly common 15A plug in the USA (US electrical code has an 80% rule for things that will be drawing current continuously for more than a few hours - Europe tends to use a peak rating). A 30A unit, unless it can automatically turn itself down (some can when you install an adapter plug), would require a 40A circuit if you wanted to hardwire it in and use all of its available current; if you want a plug on it, you'd need a 50A circuit since there are no 40A plugs (and 30A would require a 40A plug, and there aren't any!), and you'd then be using a 50A one. If the Juicebox can dial itself back, a 30A unit with a 30A plug would be providing 24A max. To get that 30A, you'd need a 50A plug, and a 50A circuit (there are no 40A plugs). The cost of wiring goes up considerably as the required gauge goes up. It can get messy, since by code, the size of the plug in the wall must match the wiring and the protection of the CB or fuse back at the panel. SO, even if a Juicebox might be limited to 30A, unless it was smart enough to dial itself back, to get 30A out of it with a plug, would require a 50A circuit when there's a plug involved. This is to prevent someone from plugging in something that really needs 50A and burning things down, since the plug is universal.

While I kept my ICE, it only gets used maybe once a month or so, but the i3, even with a REx, for my trips, would not be suitable for me (your results may differ). The REx does give you more flexibility, but you're always carrying around an extra person in the car, it gets lower mpge, and it requires periodic maintenance (oil, filter, muffler, antifreeze, spark plugs, etc.) that the BEV does not. About the only maintenance on the BEV is a brake fluid flush every two years and a cabin air filter.

 

[cmj912]

To me, the car is a blast to drive...quiet, great torque off the line and fast enough for all but the speed freaks. For running around town and most tasks, it has plenty of room, but your needs may vary. Very few places where you can legally exceed the max speed of the vehicle, but beware that running at that rate will deplete the battery at an astonishingly fast rate.

I've heard they may have a different model on the newest i3's, but the original EVSE, level 1 that comes with it in the USA is maxed out at 12A. This is so that it can be plugged into the fairly common 15A plug in the USA (US electrical code has an 80% rule for things that will be drawing current continuously for more than a few hours - Europe tends to use a peak rating). A 30A unit, unless it can automatically turn itself down (some can when you install an adapter plug), would require a 40A circuit if you wanted to hardwire it in and use all of its available current; if you want a plug on it, you'd need a 50A circuit since there are no 40A plugs (and 30A would require a 40A plug, and there aren't any!), and you'd then be using a 50A one. If the Juicebox can dial itself back, a 30A unit with a 30A plug would be providing 24A max. To get that 30A, you'd need a 50A plug, and a 50A circuit (there are no 40A plugs). The cost of wiring goes up considerably as the required gauge goes up. It can get messy, since by code, the size of the plug in the wall must match the wiring and the protection of the CB or fuse back at the panel. SO, even if a Juicebox might be limited to 30A, unless it was smart enough to dial itself back, to get 30A out of it with a plug, would require a 50A circuit when there's a plug involved. This is to prevent someone from plugging in something that really needs 50A and burning things down, since the plug is universal.

While I kept my ICE, it only gets used maybe once a month or so, but the i3, even with a REx, for my trips, would not be suitable for me (your results may differ). The REx does give you more flexibility, but you're always carrying around an extra person in the car, it gets lower mpge, and it requires periodic maintenance (oil, filter, muffler, antifreeze, spark plugs, etc.) that the BEV does not. About the only maintenance on the BEV is a brake fluid flush every two years and a cabin air filter.

Ok, I'm back to totally confused. The couple who live in the duplex with me are best friends with a licensed electrician. I think I'll just ask him what I need to do. LOL

As for my trips, it is just me and my fat dog. I don't regularly carry large amounts of stuff or other people. I go on the occasional trip to IKEA (30.2 miles one way and how odd that there isn't one in their parking garage!), to dog vet appointments (11 miles on way) the supermarket-target-plex (9 miles) and to my parents house (27.2 miles one way). Other than errands and work in the metro area that's about it.

 

[websterize]

Just get one. This ain't a dress rehearsal.

 

[cmj912]

Just get one. This ain't a dress rehearsal.

I'd love to. Dealer seems done with me, though. Responded to their last communication to me at 1pm and haven't heard. Eh well.

 

[Blue20]

Have you check with your employer to see if they would install a level 2 EVSE, or let you plug into a 110v outlet? If you work 8 hours a day, that would be more than enough to get 20 miles with the OUC.

 

[cmj912]

Have you check with your employer to see if they would install a level 2 EVSE, or let you plug into a 110v outlet? If you work 8 hours a day, that would be more than enough to get 20 miles with the OUC.

A while back I had noticed a person plugged a Prius plug-in hybrid into an outlet on the wall in one of the parking garages. I'm not sure how that turned out for them. I work for a smallish private school so them spending money on anything like that is probably not likely. There are 2 stations at one of the state schools in my city though so it might be possible.

Rather a moot point, though. Haven't heard from the dealer so its unlikely they want to come down a little on the payment which means I'm not doing it. I want them to offset the amount my insurance is going up. It is okay if this is a stretch but I don't want it to be a struggle.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Basically, the US electrical code requires anything plugged into the wall or hardwired, when the load can run longer than a couple of hours to limit the load to 80% of the circuit design. So, say you had a 32A device, 32/0.8=40A. There are NO 40A receptacles, there are 30A and 50A (and smaller and larger). So, the level 1 EVSE is intentionally limited to an output of 12A because 12/0.8=15A, and the device has a plug on it designed for a maximum of 15A. If you had a 20A plug, you could use up to 16A, and with a 30A plug, 24A, and so forth. Some of the EVSE's that come with adapter plugs have logic in them to adapt the output of the device to the type of plug you use. That means that, say you want to plug into a 50A receptacle used for a dryer or a stove, or similar, at 80%, it would support up to 40A (not 50 because it must be derated because the wires heat up over time...intermittent stuff will work up to 50A).

The i3 can want more than 12A if you turn on preconditioning and set a departure time, so even if the level 1 EVSE is plugged in and the car is set to max charge rate and was 'full' when you started, it would drop back below 100% charge while this was happening. You need about 20A or a bit more to keep the i3 at max charge while preconditioning and with a departure time set to keep the battery at full. You can turn on preconditioning anytime you want. You can only warm the batteries from the menu and have an EVSE plugged in for it to function. It doesn't make sense to use lots of battery power to heat the battery to gain range! It can make sense if you're plugged into the EVSE and want to maximize your range when it's cold out. Note, the i3 can also cool the batteries if required, and that may be an issue in the desert in the middle of summer.

 

[xxiicenturyval]

cmj, i leased a 2015 i3 BEV in Warwick, RI in Aug for $11.5k off sticker price (including federal tax credit which BMW financial got). With gas being $2/gallon they are not selling too many i3s. The salesman told me in august that my i3 was the third they had sold this year. I think they will call you back. I heard the best deals are to be had just before the end of a quarter (end of DEC).
I am not sure if you thought about property taxes. Johnston, RI is atrocious: 4% of assessed value every year. Dealer gave me a tax estimate for the duration of the lease - 2 years: $3,600. I think Providence has even higher property taxes.
My experience: great city car: fast acceleration 0-30 mph (it is the fastest BMW from 0-30 according to my dealer), very short turning radius (parking is so easy), batteries are not being drained when you are stuck in 5 pm traffic - you just sit there and listen to everybody else's engine noise.
I average 1000 miles per month and only have an OUC to use at home and no work charger. I have had days when I drove 70 miles and plugged the car at 10 pm at home and had another 60-70 miles of range the next morning. OUC takes up to 20 hours if the batteries are deeply discharged. I think you will not need a level 2 EVSE unless you routinely drive 60-70 miles every day.
I am not sure the OUC is an outdoor charger or not.
I think you can easily go to your parents house in a BEV specially if you take the OUC with you.
BEV is also cheaper than rex and much simpler - maintenance every two years with no mileage limit.
BEV is lighter and thus more sporty while being the most fuel efficient mass market car in production currently (I read it online so it must be true).

 

[cmj912]

cmj, i leased a 2015 i3 BEV in Warwick, RI in Aug for $11.5k off sticker price (including federal tax credit which BMW financial got). With gas being $2/gallon they are not selling too many i3s. The salesman told me in august that my i3 was the third they had sold this year. I think they will call you back. I heard the best deals are to be had just before the end of a quarter (end of DEC).
I am not sure if you thought about property taxes. Johnston, RI is atrocious: 4% of assessed value every year. Dealer gave me a tax estimate for the duration of the lease - 2 years: $3,600. I think Providence has even higher property taxes.
My experience: great city car: fast acceleration 0-30 mph (it is the fastest BMW from 0-30 according to my dealer), very short turning radius (parking is so easy), batteries are not being drained when you are stuck in 5 pm traffic - you just sit there and listen to everybody else's engine noise.
I average 1000 miles per month and only have an OUC to use at home and no work charger. I have had days when I drove 70 miles and plugged the car at 10 pm at home and had another 60-70 miles of range the next morning. OUC takes up to 20 hours if the batteries are deeply discharged. I think you will not need a level 2 EVSE unless you routinely drive 60-70 miles every day.
I am not sure the OUC is an outdoor charger or not.
I think you can easily go to your parents house in a BEV specially if you take the OUC with you.
BEV is also cheaper than rex and much simpler - maintenance every two years with no mileage limit.
BEV is lighter and thus more sporty while being the most fuel efficient mass market car in production currently (I read it online so it must be true).

Yeah, I am hoping they can do better on the original deal I was offered because of the stuff like property taxes. Providence's motor vehicle tax rate is $60/thousand.

I did also read that Americans seemed to lose interest in fuel efficient cars (yet again) because gas prices have been so low and, as a result, dealers had more hybrids and EVs on their lots right now because people seem more willing to buy a "cheaper" gasoline vehicle.

I did call the Warwick dealer. They didn't seem all that interested in helping me. No follow-up call when I inquired about what they had. Would not transfer me to the finance manager so I could see if they had more attractive terms. Every question I had was answered with "why don't you just come in?" The person that I was talking to on the telephone also said "Oh, we basically just use those things [the i3s] to shuttle back and forth between the inventory lot and the showroom".
Wow.

So, yes, I've decided that my lifestyle can handle the car, lets just see how affordable we can get it. There is about a $290 overall (tax insurance payment electrician etc) gap between me now and me with an i3 so if they can't close that I guess I'll just throw a dust cover on the truck and get a bike for nice days.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Some dealerships just have not embraced the i3. Those that have are still moving them in inventory.