The BMW i3 is one of the rare BEV on the market, where modern technologies like carbon fibre composite structure, a lightweight aluminium chassis, plastis parts etc. are used, and at the same time each HV battery installed, whether it is the 60 Ah, 94 Ah or 120 Ah type, has exactly the same external dimensions. Could early 60 Ah models because of their low range be considered to be of low value on the retail market, a further degradation of the 60 Ah battery most probably means their end. Battery degradation is and will be an issue on all BEV. But on the i3 it's not only the replacement, it's an upgrade to double range, which could be considered plug-and-play. So we will most probably see a growing market for battery replacement on the i3 in the future. E. g. Mandrill (mandrill-automotive.de) offers such an upgrade from 60 or 94 to 120 Ah, for roughly 13.6 TEuro. Together with their battery specialist Lion Smart they could tune the capacity even up to 147 Ah, using NMC911 cell chemistry, they say. This means some 400 km range, together with a better battery cell stability and lifetime, according to them. If it's preferable to invest in a car that you know well since years, or to loose about the same amount of money in the first two years when buying a new BEV, everyone has to decide on his own.
Second live with double range for the i3 60Ah?
- Thread starter JoeCool88
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I think that is partially true, but as we all know a car's parts wear out after some time, so keeping your car running with upgraded batteries will involve more maintenance, like the compressor, suspension, interior etc. Parts may become scarce because of the low volume. If you are really mad about the car it may be worth it.
I'm not familiar with European terms like that - what does TEuro mean?
"Thousand Euros"?
Sounds possible, though of course the conventional way would be kEuro.
If that's the price in Euros (i.e. 13.6 thousand Euros) I can't see how they will ever sell any upgrades, as that's the entire value of a decent 5-year-old 120Ah i3 on the secondhand market. It makes no sense to upgrade your car at that price - and of course as values drop, the financial case simply gets worse.
If that's the price in Euros (i.e. 13.6 thousand Euros) I can't see how they will ever sell any upgrades, as that's the entire value of a decent 5-year-old 120Ah i3 on the secondhand market. It makes no sense to upgrade your car at that price - and of course as values drop, the financial case simply gets worse.
I don't see upgrades ever being affordable on new packs for anybody vs. just replacing the car unless they choose to DIY the installation. Obviously, retrofitting pre-owned is more cost effective - if available, but still likely not worth the money unless the original pack is actually failing.
I don't know the price for a new 120Ah model in the US. But if we take 43.6 kEuro for convenience, according to the a. m. 13.6 kEuro remaining value@5years, the owner "accepted" a degrease of the value of his car of 6000 Euros per year so far. Which means that it's hard to imagine that anyone who is happy with his i3 will sell it at that stage. And even if he/she is forced to install a new HV battery exactly at this time, and drives another 2.2 years, financially nothing else happens than in the years before ;o)
The cost of the car when new is irrelevant - I think that's called the "sunk cost fallacy", isn't it? When comparing which course of action makes most sense, it's the current value of the car that matters.
Instead of paying 13.6 kEuro for a battery "upgrade", the owner might just as well pay 13.6 kEuros for a secondhand 120Ah car, and sell his existing car - every cent that he gets for his existing car would put him ahead, compared to the "upgrade".
These expensive "upgrade" services don't (IMO) have a future, because the car's value keeps decreasing, and they rapidly become non-viable.
IMO, the interesting developments will be reputable firms that are able to rebuild your existing pack for maybe a couple of kEuros. It seems likely that much of the decline of a battery pack is going to be a relatively few outlying cells that drag the whole pack down - that should be fixable relatively easily and cheaply without having to scrap the whole pack.
Instead of paying 13.6 kEuro for a battery "upgrade", the owner might just as well pay 13.6 kEuros for a secondhand 120Ah car, and sell his existing car - every cent that he gets for his existing car would put him ahead, compared to the "upgrade".
These expensive "upgrade" services don't (IMO) have a future, because the car's value keeps decreasing, and they rapidly become non-viable.
IMO, the interesting developments will be reputable firms that are able to rebuild your existing pack for maybe a couple of kEuros. It seems likely that much of the decline of a battery pack is going to be a relatively few outlying cells that drag the whole pack down - that should be fixable relatively easily and cheaply without having to scrap the whole pack.
Unfortunately, general degradation of all 96 battery cells seems to be more likely than the failure of one or several cells. In this usual situation, all battery cell modules would need to be replaced because the capacity of a series-connected battery pack like the i3's is that of its weakest cell.
An individual cell cannot be replaced easily in an i3. 12 cells are included in each of 8 replaceable modules. So if a single cell has failed, the module containing that cell must be replaced. Maybe some battery pack rebuilders will develop the procedures necessary to replace a single bad cell in a module, but that's not being done today AFAIK.
That's a shame - IIRC the Munro teardown went as far as removing and displaying modules from a pack, but did not show any dismantling at the module level.
But on the other hand, if the main concern is simply general degradation across the whole pack, this probably won't be an issue until the car gets over 200,000 miles, except for a proportion of the early 60Ah cars, which are now known to suffer premature (in design terms) pack failure - and those cars will now have too little residual value to be worth "upgrading". Maybe we will just have to accept that at that level of use, the pack has done its job and deserves to be retired (recycled)?
Whatever, it doesn't alter the fact that battery pack upgrades at 13.6 kEuros each aren't ever going to make financial sense.
Sometimes people maintain their car and keep it, even when it does not make financial sense. Enough examples in petrolhead quarters.
And I am also guilty
And I am also guilty
I really wanted to keep my 2015 rex forever but the AC fan was getting louder and I knew it was a matter of time. Did not have a single issue in 8 years of ownership. Not one. That is unbelievable
New ioniq 5 tho is pretty nice and getting 275 instead of 70 is nice
New ioniq 5 tho is pretty nice and getting 275 instead of 70 is nice
For a five year old 120Ah i3 you have to pay between 18 and 20 kEuros here in Germany. That's at least the price you find in the relevant internet markets. How much deals really come about at that price I don't know. With the 13.6 kEuros the company most probably focuses on 8 to 10 year old first generation i3, where an owner with a dead battery pack has only two possibilities. Either he scraps his car and buys a new or used one. Or he buys a new battery. If he could drive another two to three years after battery replacement, he ist financially at the same point as if he had bought a new car, because of the extreme loss of value on new cars in the first years. And if he buys a five years old used i3, there is certainly already a battery degradation, no warranty anymore and a lot of sh** could happen, as we all know. As usual all that is a question of supply and demand. And if the 13.6 are to high, the company will most probably reduce the price, before sitting around on a bunch of aging i3 HV batteries.
That's a huge difference, compared to the UK. If I look on Autotrader's UK site, there are roughly a dozen 5 years old (or younger) 120Ah i3 under £15k.
Here's an example, chosen at random: 2019 120Ah i3 with 24kmiles - £12,799.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409254452873/
So perhaps the service is more viable in Germany. It would not be viable in the UK, for most people, taking account of the fact that you'd be putting a brand new battery in a 10 year old car?
Even so, their price won't be sustainable, even in Germany, for long. Used car prices drop too fast for them to keep their prices that high for more than maybe a year. So price reductions are inevitable.
And I'm guilty too - the last 3 cars I sold were kept by me for 8, 10 and 25 years respectively (the last one was 60 years old when I sold it!), and I plan to keep the i3 for 10 years. But most of the car-buying population is not like that. A substantial proportion of car buyers in the UK still want to be seen in a car that is almost brand new - such is the car's power as a status symbol...Sometimes people maintain their car and keep it, even when it does not make financial sense. Enough examples in petrolhead quarters.
And I am also guilty
