REx in front of the cooling towers of a nuclear power plant

[sandalwood]

Took my new REx on its first long journey yesterday. I wasn't sure where I was going when I put the address in my GPS (work-related trip), but the destination turned out to be a power plant. I figured a photo in front of the cooling towers would be appropriate. The total trip: 132 miles.

 

[websterize]

Here's my ’trooper, in front of its power plant, on last year's winter solstice. Lots of fusion-powered i3s out there.

 

[eneka]

wow that's a lot of solar panels! Thought about installing some too but my roof isn't that great for them :/

 

[Kiwi]

wow that's a lot of solar panels! Thought about installing some too but my roof isn't that great for them :/

Now just try and do any maintenance on the roof. I'll never have panels just a wind turbine once good turbines come available. It's still a lot cheaper to stay connected to the power once you add up the cost of roof maintenance of the existing roof and the replacement of panels.

 

[I33t]

Not sure about problems with maintenance of the roof with solar panels?

We have had 52 panels on the roof since 2011. Pumped over 65Mwh since install. Way more than our consumption over that period. Zero issues. The panels actually protect the roof, and if you need to get to the roof under the panels (unlikely) they are easily removable.

It's still a lot cheaper to stay connected to the power once you add up the cost of roof maintenance of the existing roof and the replacement of panels.

Roof maintenance would be independent of solar panels. If it needs maintenance it is unlikely to be due to the solar panels. On a tile roof, maybe the ridge capping might need a spruce up every 15 years or so. As for the panels themselves, they're good for 20 years or more (ours have a 25 year/80% output warranty). With improvements in tech, it's possible they will be replaced sooner to substantially increase output.

As for cheaper, no. We are financially well ahead already, and the cost of the panels has been paid back by credits from the electricity utilities. Going completely off-grid is a lot more expensive, but will still pay back over a longer time span.

Waiting for 'good turbines' ?

Sounds like delay tactics. Best thing to do is to install as soon as feasible, not wait for the next big thing as there will always be something even better on the horizon.

 

[Kiwi]

I live in a county with no subsides on nothing. If you want an i3 then buy one but you will not get a subsidy. This goes for solar panels and we all like it this way as we get a true understanding what the cost is. No company should run a business and make money out of tax payer subsidies. If only America would wake up to this and pay a true cost. We have 80% renewable power generation and climbing and we don't use oil at all to generate powder.

Not even our exports are subsidised so if you see a New Zealand made product it is a true cost. The farmer or manufacture has had no subsides at all. We have a law about dumping products in our country at a cheap price and it is not allowed.

This is why I say connected power is still the cheapest and petrol cars are cheaper than battery even though we pay $4.60us a gallon which includes a $1.72us tax on petrol. This tax pays for all our roads new and old. An i3 costs $53,000us on the road ready to drive.




.

 

[I33t]

Sure, NZ has excellent renewable power and uses hardly any oil. But the main non-renewables are Coal and Gas. 2013 figures (wikipedia, please correct if you can) show 24.79% fossil fuel production of electricity.

Solar power:

Although there are no subsidies, the declining costs of photovoltaics has caused a large increase in demand over the last few years. In 2009, the average turnkey price for a standard PV system of three kilowatts (kW) was about NZ$40,000, and has since dropped by 75 percent to NZ$10,000 (US$7,800 or US$2.60/W).[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_New_Zealand

Low cost of photovoltaics and the high price of electricity is driving demand for PV in NZ. 2015 electricity pricing was 28.86C/kWh
http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/energy-data-modelling/statistics/prices/electricity-prices/sales-based-residential-prices.pdf

So for the average consumer, with or without an EV, there is a benefit for installing PV without subsidies, just as there currently is in Australia. The difference is that Australia introduced subsidies to kick start the industry and they were subsequently dropped. The solar industry is still here without subsidies and is looking at growth. Battery storage is boosting that demand, giving the consumer the ability to time shift consumption saving cost of power when the family is at home.

Bottom line is there is an economic benefit for PV to the consumer and an added advantage of reducing fossil fuel consumption if the consumer cares in that regard.

No subsidies on electric vehicles here either...

 

[Kiwi]

My power is 16.5 C/kWh. Gas and Coal is correct but only 20% in 2015 and coal finishes this year. We are second in the world to Iceland for renewable power. I understand America is between 6%-8% renewable which is terrible. I don't understand why America does not use thermal as Yellowstone has heaps of it as well a lot of other areas in America.

I live in New Zealand not Australia which is totally different than New Zealand and is 3 hours away by air.

 

[I33t]

My power is 16.5 C/kWh.

Sure, does that include the line fees of 11.9c/kWh?

I think most people are aware that NZ is not part of Australia.

 

[Kiwi]

My power is 16.5 C/kWh.

Sure, does that include the line fees of 11.9c/kWh?

I think most people are aware that NZ is not part of Australia.

why bring it up then

$1.64nz per day which you have to pay if your connected.

Where do you get 11.9c as its nothing to do with NZ

 

[I33t]

My power is 16.5 C/kWh.

Sure, does that include the line fees of 11.9c/kWh?

I think most people are aware that NZ is not part of Australia.

why bring it up then

$1.64nz per day which you have to pay if your connected.

Where do you get 11.9c as its nothing to do with NZ

Well, from the NZ Government:

http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/energy-data-modelling/statistics/prices/electricity-prices/sales-based-residential-prices.pdf

I think it has everything to do with NZ.

Don't you pay line fees per kWhr?

 

[Kiwi]

http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/energy-data-modelling/statistics/prices/electricity-prices/sales-based-residential-prices.pdf




It's wrong as I quoted you from my bill for last month. You can take 10% of my daily line rental.

28 days @ 164.00 c/day (this is a copy & paste)


If you so intent try googling our power providers.
genesisenergy.co.nz
mercury.co.nz

 

[I33t]

No worries Kiwi, I think I have the picture.

The genie is out of the bottle in most the rest of the world, and it will happen in NZ eventually. Taking control of your energy is a great benefit for consumers, not so much for retailers. Battery systems like Tesla's will divert power from low feed in to after hours use, so consumers win and win.

 

[Kiwi]

No worries Kiwi, I think I have the picture.

The genie is out of the bottle in most the rest of the world, and it will happen in NZ eventually. Taking control of your energy is a great benefit for consumers, not so much for retailers. Battery systems like Tesla's will divert power from low feed in to after hours use, so consumers win and win.

This is my point. The rest of the world including America works on subsides so it's false and misleading. Renewable is not mining copper it is wind, water and thermal. The rest of the world should be following New Zealand's & Iceland's lead. Landfill sites don't need solar panels once they break down we need what we have homes connected with better renewable power suppliers. If American local governments spent their money on renewable power than subsides America would be a lot better off.

 

[I33t]

Sure, there are two sides to the story IMHO.

1. Governments should lead towards renewables at the expense of fossil fuels. I agree that this is not a strong point for most economies, but the governments are in a difficult place and it is too easy for them to support the status quo. This includes Australia which has a long history of coal consumption and exports, not an easy decision to shut that industry down, and the industry also lobbies the pollies.

2 On the other side, homeowners can do their bit with or without a subsidy. Moving away from high consumption and high consumption appliances is a core motive for reducing power bills, and adding solar to the home is a unique benefit for homeowners that enables a long term benefit that can reduce or eliminate electricity bills. Especially since power prices seem to only go up.

Subsidies are often used to kick start a market and industry. Its up to the governments to decide if they are a long term or short term benefit. If you look at the EV industry, the countries that offer a subsidy have built a faster change in the vehicle market that those countries that don't.

Some countries have excellent renewable resources like NZ and low populations so with the right government and public motivation they can move away from FF in a relatively short time. Not so easy for countries with limited renewable resources and larger populations.

Solar panels continue to produce power past their expected lifetime, (80%/25 years) so they will probably remain on the roof unless they are damaged. Like all electronic components they will more likely go into recycling rather than landfill, as they have a lot of useful components like silicon, aluminium, glass and a small quantity of copper and other items.

 

[Kiwi]

There is heaps of oil in the ground I wouldn't believe all the dooms day people. If cars where the only product powered by petrol then we will never run out. It's the big user that need to change to renewable.

The i3 would be a fun car but needs a 300 mile battery range at least. Sports mode for tighter steering and suspicion. It could also do with better supportive standard front seats. I do like the shape of the car and rear doors. I love the acceleration of the i3.

 

[psquare]

There is heaps of oil in the ground I wouldn't believe all the dooms day people. If cars where the only product powered by petrol then we will never run out. It's the big user that need to change to renewable.

Yes, Probably Not and Yes.

But how expensive to squeeze those last drops of oil out of the planet? See the number of oil businesses struggling as they relied on high oil prices to justify their adventurous projects? And why purely rely on this when there is the option to power a car with renewable energy? The energy stored in my i3 batteries is the equivalent of about 2 litres of Diesel. It's true that transport only amounts to about 10% of petrol use globally, so there's bigger fish to fry elsewhere. Shouldn't stop consumers from switching their driving habits though.

But over time, this will sort out itself anyway. Why? Whenever I pick my kids up from school in the i3, I can see the excitement of the younger generation for electric cars.

 

[Kiwi]

There is heaps of oil in the ground I wouldn't believe all the dooms day people. If cars where the only product powered by petrol then we will never run out. It's the big user that need to change to renewable.

Yes, Probably Not and Yes.

But how expensive to squeeze those last drops of oil out of the planet? See the number of oil businesses struggling as they relied on high oil prices to justify their adventurous projects? And why purely rely on this when there is the option to power a car with renewable energy? The energy stored in my i3 batteries is the equivalent of about 2 litres of Diesel. It's true that transport only amounts to about 10% of petrol use globally, so there's bigger fish to fry elsewhere. Shouldn't stop consumers from switching their driving habits though.

But over time, this will sort out itself anyway. Why? Whenever I pick my kids up from school in the i3, I can see the excitement of the younger generation for electric cars.

Its about time all the greedy oil companies have hard times like they gave us when they made oil too expensive with more job loses than any oil industry company has had. Cuba has a lot of oil this is why America has dropped their crazy black list but look at China. America is owned by China.

I like Trump, he needs 3 years as president just to show that the Western World is boss again not the other way round.

 

[I33t]

lol @ kiwi.

I think you should start your own thread for Trump, we've definitely steered this thread off the rails here.

 

[Kiwi]

lol @ kiwi.

I think you should start your own thread for Trump, we've definitely steered this thread off the rails here.

LOL love it. I've been waiting.

I'm always like this and most Kiwis are Very Out Spoken and we love stirring as we need too as we our a very small country. Actually not that small same size as Japan or England but only 4 million people.

We just smashed Australia in cricket today who are world champions and not by just a little 159 runs which is a record so the whole country is celebrating.