Real purchase price for i3 ?

[theothertom]

Web sites like truecar.com and similar are reporting that dealers are selling i3's at or near invoice. Does anyone know if this includes the $7500 tax credit or other rebates, or if this the "straight up" dealer price and credits and rebates are then applied to that, thus lowering the price even further ?

 

[jadnashuanh]

The dealer has nothing to do with the federal tax credit when you buy an EV...that's between you and the US Government, and, not all people will qualify to get the full amount. There is a bit of an impact when you lease the vehicle, though, but the leasing company gets a credit, you don't, but that helps in the lease cost.

 

[theothertom]

BMW is currently giving a $7500 "discount" on a leased i3. I suspect this is the tax credit which they get and are passing on to the lessee as a discount or "rebate". So when a sale is "reported" it probably contains the tax credit in the form of a discount. I was wondering if the reported numbers quoted by truecar and the like include that or not. One way to tell is if someone actually purchased an i3 but my guess is most people lease.
So my question is what is the real sales price, exclusive of any rebates or "credits" or whatever BMW wants to call them. When I negotiate for a car, I like to start from invoice and then apply any rebates, and add dealer profit to get to a selling price. If the numbers on the websites are real, then invoice IS the number (including dealer profit) and any rebates should be deducted from that. I'm trying to determine if that's actually the case.

 

[spinball]

There is a bit of an impact when you lease the vehicle, though, but the leasing company gets a credit, you don't, but that helps in the lease cost.

"a bit" = Understatement of the year! :lol:

The $7500 rebated passed through to the leasee knocks off around $300/mo on the monthly payment (calulation for 2 year lease). It's an incredible deal, especially if you make use of it multiple times repeatedly.

I'd estimate 95% of all i3s in the US are leased.

 

[Tirpitz]

You should aim for invoice before applying any incentives from the manufacturer. So if you are leasing you want the $7,500 off after you've got to invoice. Same with any fleet discounts you qualify for.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The $7500 is a tax credit, which assumes you have a tax liability of at least that - it would be much nicer if it were a rebate (as the states that offer one provide). Then, throw in the alternate minimum tax rules, and you may not get the full credit. It is NOT a rebate. Also, it's my understanding that the leasing company does not get that full amount...the way the law is written, they do not qualify for the full amount. A subsidized lease can be very good if, and only if, you want to swap the car out each time. It does not help if you then decide to buy the car, or if you purchase it and keep it for an extended period of time. On the i3 BEV, after the infant mortality issues are resolved, there is very little that should wear out, so maintenance should not be an issue unlike an ICE.

 

[theothertom]

You should aim for invoice before applying any incentives from the manufacturer. So if you are leasing you want the $7,500 off after you've got to invoice. Same with any fleet discounts you qualify for.

Correct, but normally dealers don't sell at invoice. They need profit to stay in business. That's why I was surprised to see the truecar price at or near invoice. So my question is...does the truecar price include incentives or not ?

 

[theothertom]

The $7500 is a tax credit, which assumes you have a tax liability of at least that - it would be much nicer if it were a rebate (as the states that offer one provide). Then, throw in the alternate minimum tax rules, and you may not get the full credit. It is NOT a rebate. Also, it's my understanding that the leasing company does not get that full amount...the way the law is written, they do not qualify for the full amount. A subsidized lease can be very good if, and only if, you want to swap the car out each time. It does not help if you then decide to buy the car, or if you purchase it and keep it for an extended period of time. On the i3 BEV, after the infant mortality issues are resolved, there is very little that should wear out, so maintenance should not be an issue unlike an ICE.

Everything you say is correct. All I want to know is...does the truecar price (at or near invoice) include the incentives or not ? Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post.

 

[Schnort]

It does not.

edit: it doesn't include federal or state rebates.

 

[Tirpitz]

Don't assume the dealer is paying the invoice price for the car. The manufacturer has all sorts of incentives they offer the dealers that are mostly invisible to customers. These can radically impact the price of the car.

Example- BMW says to dealers that they will pay them $10,000 if they sell more than 150 cars in a given month. If you show up interested on the last day of the month and they are sitting at 149 cars sold how much off invoice do you think they might go to sell you a car?

There can also be manufacturer to dealer incentives on particular models or even certain configurations. I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure BMW had a $1K incentive to dealers on the i3 in March. So a dealer selling you an i3 at invoice in March is actually making at least $1K on the sale.

Invoice is really just the new MSRP. We've all learned about invoice pricing thanks to the internet but there is still a lot of opaque stuff involved in car pricing.

 

[Livestrong191]

Dealers pay wayyyyy less then invoice for vehicles .The Dealer Costs Formula: Invoice Price - Holdback - Rebates & Incentives (If any)= Dealer Cost. Plus the Hold Back is the Hidden Profit. So when you go in don't start at invoice go below it and mention you know there holdback incentives and when they say dealer fees (cut it in half or let them take it all off).

I email dealers and say Hi , this is what I want and this is what I want to pay and for this long. If all my terms can be met or improved , you have a deal RIGHT NOW and one less new car on your lot today. ( be ready to pull the trigger if they say yes).

I am 90% successful. The other 10% not so much because they say Yes but try and pull a bait and switch and start adding fees (not following the guide lines I sent them.

Ps my terms are never unreasonable and outrageous but YOU have to be realistic . You can get a great deal but you have to show them that they doable numbers.