Question on chargers including wireless

[Rolf]

Hello all,

We have a 2016 i3 REX and we love it.
In WA state with PSE as elec provider.

Doing OK with level 1 charging but plan to upgrade the garage with a Level 2 charger.

I see Level 2 chargers on Amazon from $300 to $800. What should I look for?

Some chargers like Zencharger say 16 Amp max but the Juicebox claims up to 40 Amp. It is my understanding that the i3 will accept up to 7.7 Kw?

I need to run a new wire for about 50-60ft for the new outlet. My electrician is asking how many Amps will it draw.

Would the math be 240 / 7.7 = 31 something Amps?

Has anyone tried a wireless charger?

Like these guys sell?
https://www.pluglesspower.com

Their tollfree number does not accept mobile calls and the corporate line has a fast busy so I am getting discouraged but there must be others.

Love some feedback.  Thanks!

 

[JohnKelly]

I have two Clipper Creek EVSEs, a 32 amp mounted outdoors supplies the maximum an i3 can handle on level 2, and a portable 24 amp that I use to plug in at camp sites where they have NEMA 14-50 outlets. Both have performed flawlessly. Made in the U.S. Great customer service. Clipper Creek is one of the most common units in Washington state : ) See them all over the place.

 

[PBNB]

I picked up a Charge Point wifi unit for about $850 CDN on Amazon with a 25 foot cord. They have a nice little app that keeps track of your charging history so you can see what you are using.

The Wifi is great to tell mw when the car is finished on my iPhone. I can even stop the charge in mid cycle if I needed to.

I had a 40 amp 220 breaker added to my house panel and ran ~80' of heavy wires to an outlet in the carport with a dryer style connection. The charger plugs into that outlet. If I ever had to remove the charger, I could easily unplug it and take it off the wall. I had to do some welding at the house a while back and we used that outlet for the welder so it came in handy.

It will charge my i3 at 7.2 KW/hr. My buddy tried to charge his Chevy Volt on it and it throttled down to 3.6 KW/hr. We couldn't get that car to take more than the 3.6.

 

[vreihen]

I need to run a new wire for about 50-60ft for the new outlet. My electrician is asking how many Amps will it draw.

Would the math be 240 / 7.7 = 31 something Amps?

The usual accepted number is 32A for a Level 2 i3 EVSE in the USA. To do that under NEC, you will need a 40A circuit for the required safety buffer.

One of the more common big power plugs/sockets is 50A. Some EVSE's come with that plug (even if it is overkill), so you may want to have your electrician pull a 50A circuit and use one of those sockets unless you plan to have the EVSE hard-wired. Also, another silly electrical code says that an EVSE can only have a short power cord (15 inches), so place your outlet right next to your planned EVSE mounting location.

While the i3 can only use about 32A maximum, the odds are that your next EV will happily draw 40-50A in a few years. I strongly recommend sizing your EVSE purchase and wiring accordingly, for example a 50A circuit for a 40A EVSE.....

 

[jadnashuanh]

THe charging circuit and action takes place INSIDE the car when dealing with ACV. So, the size of the charging circuit is important on both sides.

There is a protocol so the source isn't overloaded (assuming it is installed properly to code). The EVSE sends out a signal that says "I have x amps available", then, the car adjusts itself so it doesn't overload the supply. There's also a couple of safety interlocks, one that says the plug is properly inserted and latched, and then one from the car that tells the device it wants power, which if all else is good, causes it to flip its internal switch to apply power.

US electrical codes says that a device that can draw power for extended timeframes must have the system sized so that that constant load is NGT 80% of the rating...so, a 40A circuit could safely supply up to 32A, a 50A circuit up to 40A (and another common set are 15A-12, or 20A - 16...all at 80% of the available).

The EVSE needs two power leads and a safety ground. There might be a few 240vac devices that require a neutral for internal purposes, but generally, you don't need one. You might need to derate the cable based on whether it's in a conduit, or the length is excessive, so that might dictate larger cable, but the circuit breaker is there to protect the wiring, not the device(s) attached. It doesn't hurt to oversize the wiring except for the costs...well, thicker wire is harder to run, but not much unless you go really overboard. Thicker wires will have less power lost to internal heat buildup. The heat is the reason why the run is derated, to limit the amount of power/heat is lost in the cable which, depending on how it is run, could start a fire if not manage properly.

Some people want their EVSE to do a bit more than a basic one, such as:
- a WiFi monitor, control capability
- built in timer
- voltage/current/power display
and, maybe some other things. Those 'perks' add to the cost and complexity. Technically, not needed at all.

A basic EVSE will have usually at least four indicator lights:
- power
- charging
- power fault
- error
The basic logic in an EVSE has the function of a GFCI device, so you may not need one depending on local codes.

There have been some breakthroughs on bumping the efficiency with wireless charging, but it's not as high as with a wired connection...it should be more convenient. On most of them, there's not a lot of leeway in exactly where you park your car over the coil. The i3 does not come with wireless charging capabilities. Not to say that it may not show up at some future time, but it adds weight, and reduces ground clearance, assuming you don't make other major changes), so, at least for now, except for a few special cases, you can't get this from the factory. Most have shown prototypes. THe aftermarket suppliers don't support every platform.

 

[Rolf]

Thanks everyone for great answers.

Sounds like I need to tell my electrician to install wiring capable of 50 Amp.

Good point, even though the i3 may draw less, more EV cars will probably be in that garage.

The Clipper Creek sounds like it is a good value. Wifi may be nice but only if PSE offers lower rates at night etc. Need to check. If not, make is simple.

As far as wireless or plugless, the company I mentioned shows a unit for i3 but maybe the car is not ready?

Also, their website talk about taking deposits, maybe still under development? Not interested in being a crowd funder for sure.

 

[jadnashuanh]

BMW has shown prototypes for some of their vehicles, but I'd be a little apprehensive modifying the charging circuit to install an aftermarket one on an i3. I'd rather let someone else try it first as well!

 

[eNate]

The Clipper Creek sounds like it is a good value. Wifi may be nice but only if PSE offers lower rates at night etc. Need to check. If not, make is simple.

The i3 can also be set via the iDrive interface to charge during "tariff time slots." You can adjust the times and turn the feature on and off via the BMW Connected Drive app.

 

[jadnashuanh]

IF the car was going to be plugged into an EVSE, to ensure it got some charge time, you could set a departure time for say every Monday. No need to check the precondition the cabin. But, the 1-Kw heater for the battery, at least when it's cold outside, should trigger the EVSE to turn on. If it was summer, then, maybe also check the precondition the cabin...it would turn the a/c on, and the combination would trigger it to activate the EVSE.

 

[vreihen]

Programmed departure times will disable themselves after a few missed departures.....

 

[jadnashuanh]

Programmed departure times will disable themselves after a few missed departures.....

Didn't know that! But, if you have connectivity, you could always reinstate them.

 

[eNate]

Programmed departure times will disable themselves after a few missed departures.....

...f you have connectivity, you could always reinstate them.

I have all three of my departure times set and use them up to 3x per day.

If I miss two departures, I receive a message the next time I'm in the car that "several" preconditioning sessions went unused, so the feature is disabled.

However, from my app, there's no indication this has happened, so there's nothing to restore.

The last time I skipped a day (yesterday), I disabled preconditioning in the app, so the whole page was grayed out. But when I got back in the car this morning (after trying to precondition manually because I forgot to reenable the app), I received an error / unable to execute, and the car gave me the same "disabled / missed several departure times" notification.

So as great as it sounds, I'm thinking there's no way to manage this remotely.

 

[Rolf]

Programmed departure times will disable themselves after a few missed departures.....

Well, that's just stupid! My humble opinion, of course;-)

 

[jadnashuanh]

Well, there's always a way around this...maybe add a WiFi enabled control for your EVSE?

Maybe the next generation will work more in concert with the needed functionality. I'd asked about car to grid capabilities, and was told it's coming...now, that could be anywhere from never to tomorrow. This allows the car's batteries to act as a buffer to the grid, often giving you a reduced electric bill. You can tell the system when you need the car, so it will adjust the in/out of current to allow that to happen.

 

[3pete]

Sounds like I need to tell my electrician to install wiring capable of 50 Amp.

Good point, even though the i3 may draw less, more EV cars will probably be in that garage.

Just wanted to chime in that 50amps seems like a good choice. It seems (to me) to be the sweet spot for 'new installations' combining the benefits of: minimal additional material costs, future-proofing for faster charging EVs, and convenient for if you pick up welding or want to park an RV in your driveway.

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, I would have gone with a 50A circuit (or maybe even more!), but with my older panel and no easy way to upgrade it, 40A was all I could deal with reliably.

Note, while EVs get larger batteries, they'll still recharge just fine with a smaller EVSE, it's just that it will (obviously) take longer. That may or may not be an issue for you, as for most people, when used on a daily basis, aren't driving far enough so that a 40A circuit can't recharge the car overnight. On a longer trip, the CCS input then becomes much more important. Many hybrids with smaller batteries don't have that large of an onboard charging capability. So, even if you came home from a long trip with a nearly discharged battery, and wanted to go to work the next day, it should be able to recover probably at least 100-miles overnight, and the next day, you'd be able to recover fully, if you didn't already.

 

[vreihen]

Well, that's just stupid! My humble opinion, of course;-)

My i3 has been buried under a snow bank in the driveway since November 26th, not plugged in. The batteries would surely be depleted by now if it kept pre-conditioning every weekday morning for almost three weeks while it sat parked. Picture someone parking at the airport and forgetting to disable programmed departure times. Are they going to think that the feature is stupid when they push the on button and are greeted by an alert that the departure times were automatically disabled rather than a 100% dead battery?????

 

[eNate]

In my humbles of opinions, the car is smart enough to know whether it's plugged in or free standing in a dark parking lot, so at least could give the user the option of how to respond to unused departure times.

More so, since this is becoming a wish list of sorts, why not provide an option in iDrive to put our cars in "storage mode" so this battery maintenance task is handled legitimately?

 

[eNate]

[Dupe post]

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, unless plugged into an EVSE, the only thing setting a departure time would do is condition the cabin...it will not use battery power to warm them. Cabin preconditioning is a selectable option part of setting a departure time.