My Virgin Charge Was a Nightmare!!!

[Skyking6976]

Took my shiny new BEV to the closest Level 3 ChargePoint for my first charge…at a Harley dealership no less. Machine kept saying “waiting for vehicle” Over and over.

BMW is a few miles down the road so I went there. “Genius” employee walks me over and I say WTF use is a level 2 charger? I like coming to the dealership but not for 4+ hours. Takes me around to the Level 3…which only puts out half the 40 I needed. Machine said fault so I called ChargePoint. Fortunately a tech came out that owns one. He helped me work with ChargePoint to get it running.

THEN…after a couple hours sitting around I went out to unplug and leave. We’ll…the tech had swiped his card so the socket was LOCKED…and the tech was at lunch. Nightmare….finally disconnect and go back to the HD ChargePoint. Nope….authorizes, remove nozzle or whatever, stick it in and it says “waiting for vehicle”.

WHAT THE F IS GOING ON HERE?!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ve got 2 months of this nightmare before we move in the house with a level 2 charger in the garage. Oh…this BMW “genius” that tried to help me was far from it. I learned more from the tech (who has owned an i3) than that guy.

 

[eNate]

I've read stories of nothing but frustration and failure at Harley dealerships.

 

[Arm]

What socket was it locked in?

 

[3pete]

I've read stories of nothing but frustration and failure at Harley dealerships.

I'll second that. It makes one wonder just how "standard" the charge/communication protocol is, because reading through plugshare check-ins around me it seems like BMWs are more prone to communication failures preventing DC charges.

I'm still curious about this product which specifically states it is NOT compatible with the i3. Isn't the J1772 standard, you know, a standard???
https://qccharge.com/products/jesla-jr

NOTE: Effective June 2018, due to an update in manufacturing of the Tesla® UMC units, our JESLA JR will not work with the BMW i3. Please call or write about our other options, including the original JESLA.

The ONLY DC chargers I've had reliable success at are the Electrify America ones. And part of that is because they have multiple stations. If one doesn't work you just move to another one (which I have had to do once or twice). And the bonus is they're typically all provisioned for 150+kW so they won't break a sweat maxing out the i3's max charge instead of some Harley chargers at ~25kW

 

[Skyking6976]

After I calmed down a bit, I started researching and was very impressed with Electrify America Nate. There’s one not far from the bridge we cross to see the grandkids. The app seems very slick as well. It’s an 11 mile drive so…

Doing all the work over 6-7 weeks finding one of these, I did very little research on charging When considering buying one I saw the Harley dealer had a “Level 3” as did the BMW dealer a couple miles further down the road. I thought OK… I’ll stop buy 1-2 times a week for a quick 30 mile charge… No idea “Level 3” has such a wide meaning. When I thought of level 3, my understand was giving the car the max it could take.

 

[Skyking6976]

What socket was it locked in?

CCS ??? Locked in the car port because both the tech and I tried our cards to get the thing to work. Further after being home and hour or so, I called CP and said hey…the app is still showing I’m at BMW charging. She couldn’t fix it but passed it on to someone in IT. I didn’t want someone charging with my account. She said no worries it’s showing a fault and wasn’t used for a couple weeks before I used it :shock:

 

[Arm]

What socket was it locked in?

CCS ??? Locked in the car port because both the tech and I tried our cards to get the thing to work. Further after being home and hour or so, I called CP and said hey…the app is still showing I’m at BMW charging. She couldn’t fix it but passed it on to someone in IT. I didn’t want someone charging with my account. She said no worries it’s showing a fault and wasn’t used for a couple weeks before I used it :shock:

If I understand correctly, you're saying the charging connector was locked onto your vehicle?

 

[Skyking6976]

Yes…because the BMW tech and I were having a problem clearing the “fault” and we would alternately swipe our cards to clear the fault. The CP rep on the phone “forced” the machine to dispense electricity and I guess when it did the tech’s card was the last one used so it was locked until the tech came back to shut it off. However, the app still showed my car “charging” but the percent never changed.

 

[Arm]

Yes…because the BMW tech and I were having a problem clearing the “fault” and we would alternately swipe our cards to clear the fault. The CP rep on the phone “forced” the machine to dispense electricity and I guess when it did the tech’s card was the last one used so it was locked until the tech came back to shut it off. However, the app still showed my car “charging” but the percent never changed.

Silly question but when you tried to remove the cable from your car, was it locked or unlocked? The i3 has a feature where you can set the charging port on the vehicle to lock the cable in place whike the vehicle is charging.

 

[eNate]

Inside the rear door sill, under a stryofoam cover, is a manual release for the charging cable lock. I've had to use this once -- it works.

And once lock is released, the trigger on the CCS head can be depressed, which (in theory at least) sends a signal back to the DCFC to command it to cease charging. So if everything is working as it should, you can disconnect safely, without an arc.

 

[Skyking6976]

Yes…because the BMW tech and I were having a problem clearing the “fault” and we would alternately swipe our cards to clear the fault. The CP rep on the phone “forced” the machine to dispense electricity and I guess when it did the tech’s card was the last one used so it was locked until the tech came back to shut it off. However, the app still showed my car “charging” but the percent never changed.

Silly question but when you tried to remove the cable from your car, was it locked or unlocked? The i3 has a feature where you can set the charging port on the vehicle to lock the cable in place whike the vehicle is charging.

That’s a good question. The answer is yes the car was unlocked because as soon as the tech swiped his card the lock was off. However, yes… I’d forgotten about that feature of locking the car locks the charger…thank you.

 

[Skyking6976]

So…I went to an Electrify America charger before the charge got to low and OMG that was fast. Think I was high 30% charged and in 20 minutes or so I got just over 80%. By the time I went in the convenience store and got a sandwich there was only 6 minutes left to 80%…WOW.

Maybe it’s just EA but I couldn’t get the damn nozzle to lock on the car. After going to several chargers, I accidentally angled the nozzle because that wire cable is heavy…and it snapped in place. I tried it again after charging and yep…you have to angle the nozzle into the plug…at least at EA.

EA had 150 and 350 kW chargers. Now THAT’S what I understood was level 3…

 

[Arm]

Actually that's what's called HIGH POWER.

L3 is 50kW.
L2 is 24kW DC/19kW AC,
L1 is 7.2kW, etc home charging
Below that is plug in the wall.

 

[alohart]

Actually that's what's called HIGH POWER.

L3 is 50kW.
L2 is 24kW DC/19kW AC,
L1 is 7.2kW, etc home charging
Below that is plug in the wall.

Not sure where you got your information.

In North America:

AC Level 1: 120 VAC 1 phase up to 16 A (1.92 kW)
AC Level 2: 208-240 VAC 1 phase up to 80 A (19.2 kW)
DC Level 1: 50 to 1000 VDC up to 80 A (80 kW)
DC Level 2: 50 to 1000 VDC 80-400 A (400 kW)

When charging with AC power, the charger is in the EV. When charging with DC power, the charger is external to the EV.

Neither AC Level 3 nor DC Level 3 is a standard anywhere, so there is no "Level 3". Much of the rest of the world has different charging standards, some of which include charging with 3-phase AC power.

 

[Arm]

50kW isn't considered L2. I'm in the business.

 

[alohart]

50kW isn't considered L2. I'm in the business.

You're being sloppy with your use of various charging levels because you don't distinguish between the two very different charging methods, AC and DC, each of which have 2 levels adopted by the SAE. So when you write "L2", do you mean AC Level 2 or DC Level 2?

No one considers 50 kW charging to be AC Level 2 (19.2 kW max). However, 400 VDC charging at 125 A is 50 kW which means that it conforms with the DC Level 2 spec.

If you're in the business, shouldn't you be more precise to avoid confusing your customers?

 

[Skyking6976]

Okay… I truly meant “THAT’S level 3” in a funny NOT electrical engineer way. I am well aware the station could provide 1,000 kW but the car could only take 50kW I believe. I was just wowed by how fast it charged, the huge wire cable you plug in versus my nightmare experience at HD and BMW on Monday.

For those thinking of buying an electric powered car and happened on this thread in the future, if an app or map shows “level 3” that does NOT automatically mean you’ll be at 80% in 20-30 minutes. THAT was my mistake. When I started looking for an i3, I simply downloaded the typical apps and narrowed the search to level 3 and thought oh…there’s 2 close so I can limp along until we move to the new house.

Just as an aside… I wonder how much power those solar panels on the roof of our huge barn\shed\extra garage thing produces. Pre-purchase inspection on Monday so I’m gonna ask. No…don’t need level 3 at home…just curious.

Yes…I’ve read that frequent “fast charging” causes battery degradation but I’m only doing it for 2 months and more importantly…it’s a lease.

 

[Arm]

50kW isn't considered L2. I'm in the business.

You're being sloppy with your use of various charging levels because you don't distinguish between the two very different charging methods, AC and DC, each of which have 2 levels adopted by the SAE. So when you write "L2", do you mean AC Level 2 or DC Level 2?

No one considers 50 kW charging to be AC Level 2 (19.2 kW max). However, 400 VDC charging at 125 A is 50 kW which means that it conforms with the DC Level 2 spec.

If you're in the business, shouldn't you be more precise to avoid confusing your customers?

There are also 100AMP, DC Wall boxes that are 240V, 24kW, L2. The difference between charging currents isn't the issue, power level is. That's how it's defined in the arena I work in.

 

[alohart]

There are also 100AMP, DC Wall boxes that are 240V, 24kW, L2. The difference between charging currents isn't the issue, power level is.

As I wrote in a previous post, DC Level 2 is defined as 50 to 1000 VDC 80-400 A (400 kW). Your example DC charger is 240 V (yep, between 50 and 1000 VDC) and 100 A (yep, between 80 and 400 A). Therefore, it is a DC Level 2 charger, not just "L2" which doesn't distinguish it from AC Level 2, a very different standard.

Charging power isn't the only factor, but also the type of power used, AC or DC. AC charging requires only a smart switch, an EVSE, and uses an EV's internal charger to convert AC power to DC power at the higher voltage required by the battery pack whereas DC charging connects to an EV's battery pack directly using a charger external to an EV to convert AC power to DC power at the voltage required by the battery pack.

Trying to categorize all charging protocols as a series of levels is simplistic and ignores important distinctions.

 

[Arm]

The distinctions have nothing to do with categorizing by power level. Anything at or above 50kW is considered L3 in general until you start entering HP territory.

You are essentially breaking down the level categories into the sub-categories for the two types of current types...which to most people is irrelevant. For home users, L3 charging at 50kW is not an option due to cost and the fact that home currents are AC and capped at 240V to the panel/breaker. Even a 19.2kW unit at home is highly unusual if at all possible given the high current.