Lack of 17 i3 BEV at dealers

[archieb]

My lease on a 2014 i3 BEV will be up in a few months and I wanted to start looking at what the 2017 i3 BEVs had to offer. My local BMW dealer in southern Wisconsin has none in stock, and has not had any i3s for quite some time. No problem, I thought, Chicago is nearby with plenty of BMW dealers.

I used cars.com, autotrader.com, cargurus.com to search for 2017 i3s BEVs. First out 100 miles, zero, 200 miles, zero, 300 miles, zero, 500 miles, finally found one over 350 miles away. I then searched individual Chicago area BMW dealers websites, still zero. In fact looking for any 2017 i3 resulted in only 15 cars within 200 miles, all range extenders. This is a huge difference from 2015 when dealers had multiple BEVs available to choose from.

With the exception of two tires being replaced (potholes) I've had no out of pocket repairs. The car has only been to the dealer twice, once for the 2 year maintenance and a software upgrade and once more for a software upgrade.

It is hard to sell a car when none are available to see or test drive. Very disappointing.

 

[spinball]

I'm in the same situation, also in WI. My lease ends in June.

I think BMW has intentionally ramped down inventory in many areas because they expect the current model become less and less competitive every month as the Bolt rolls out and the Model 3 inches closer. I'd expect the "Central" region to be the most affected because electric cars in general simply aren't popular here (yet).

I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to need a "temporary" car to bridge the gap between a reasonable deal on a new i3, Bolt later this year, or something else.

 

[alohart]

My guess is that BMW is constrained on how many i3's it can build due to the likely greater time required to build a CFRP passenger cell compared with stamped steel construction. BMW's margin on U.S. leases might have been slim to none due to higher than expected depreciation rates whereas sales of BEV's in Norway are robust with likely greater margins. So maybe most BEV's are being shipped to Norway while REx's go to the U.S. with its poorer public charging infrastructure and its greater average driving distances.

I'm becoming happier and happier that we bought our 2014 BEV and can keep it as long as we want instead of being one of the apparently many lease returners who'd like to lease a 2017 BEV but cannot find one or are shocked by the higher lease payments. Would custom ordering one be an option?

 

[Tirpitz]

If you have the time order one. That is what we did though ours is a REX. Couldn't find any cars configured the way we wanted. BMW typically will work with you if you have a car on order but it is not ready at your lease turn in date.

Also if you are considering this move before April 1 when the MSRP increases by $850. You will be grandfathered in at the old price provided you take delivery by June 30.

 

[jadnashuanh]

One thing that set the i3 apart from any other CFRP vehicle/component out there is the build process they developed. It takes all of about 5-minutes after the fabric is fully in place to have a cured chassis. A little clean up, some holes, and they're ready to start to use it to build up a car. They're capable of building about 40K per year. IF they needed more, a different technique would have been preferred. They may have had more demand for the newer battery packs, and have decided to stop making them available after the end of this month.

 

[hightower82]

My lease on a 2014 i3 BEV will be up in a few months and I wanted to start looking at what the 2017 i3 BEVs had to offer. My local BMW dealer in southern Wisconsin has none in stock, and has not had any i3s for quite some time. No problem, I thought, Chicago is nearby with plenty of BMW dealers.

I used cars.com, autotrader.com, cargurus.com to search for 2017 i3s BEVs. First out 100 miles, zero, 200 miles, zero, 300 miles, zero, 500 miles, finally found one over 350 miles away. I then searched individual Chicago area BMW dealers websites, still zero. In fact looking for any 2017 i3 resulted in only 15 cars within 200 miles, all range extenders. This is a huge difference from 2015 when dealers had multiple BEVs available to choose from.

With the exception of two tires being replaced (potholes) I've had no out of pocket repairs. The car has only been to the dealer twice, once for the 2 year maintenance and a software upgrade and once more for a software upgrade.

It is hard to sell a car when none are available to see or test drive. Very disappointing.

I have a 2017 BEV being delivered to me in the next week or so from Colorado. I live in Ohio. I had to search far and wide to find one with the specs I wanted. I used bimcar.com to search nationwide, then I sent out several emails to each dealer that had one in stock and made an offer (I'm buying, not leasing). My local dealers here never have BEVs. I would have to order one and wait several months to buy locally. Shipping is not bad (800 from Colorado to Ohio). And I negotiated a good price on the car itself so that made it more worthwhile.

 

[theothertom]

This is an interesting discussion. I suppose most people want the REx due to range anxiety, but I wonder how they will use the car. IMO, the i3 and other similar EV's are made for commuter cars, not longer trips. As long as you're using it as a commuter car you really don't need the REx. The BEV can be taken on longer trips, but it requires more planning and longer trip times. This is true for the REx as well. So, in the end, the BEV is more suitable for the intended purpose of an EV. All IMHO of course.
Having said that, I want to buy (lease) a BEV but my wife is adamant that if we get an EV, it will be the REx. Why ? She has range anxiety. Even though I try to explain that a REx can leave you stranded if you don't plan ahead, she is still adamant that the REx is the one to get. So, if that's the only way I can get an EV, then.....

 

[jadnashuanh]

I find it interesting, and vindicating, that some of the people buying or leasing their second i3 are moving from the REx to the BEV because they've either never needed the REx, or only used it to verify that it worked! With the larger battery pack in the 2017 i3, if you're buying it for the designed purpose, IMHO, you don't need the REx. If you want to rely on it as an only car (in the USA, that's rare), then, yes, the REx may be a worthwhile add-on, but otherwise, it's dead, expensive weight that you're carrying around for that hypothetical 'need'. Having the heat pump, lighter weight, and faster vehicle in the BEV does have some benefits! If you can always leave with a full battery, and can precondition it, the vast majority of people will never need the REx. FWIW, I don't find the i3 wonderful on long trips. I find it perfectly fine when used within its battery capacity, though, and that's how I use mine. When needed, I use my other vehicle, when more room or range is required. If you absolutely can't support two vehicles, or are willing to borrow/swap/rent one suitable for your trip where it won't work, if you're willing to live with the restrictions, I guess, that points more towards the REx. Different environments, different expectations. The US has some huge distances between places that many people don't want the restrictions of the REx (like stopping every hour or so to refill the tank).

FWIW, over the life of the car (at least most leases), you can rent a suitable vehicle for those occasional trips when the BEV won't work, and still come out ahead, at least for many people.

 

[bwilson4web]

. . . the vast majority of people will never need the REx. . . . I use my other vehicle, when more room or range is required. . . . you can rent a suitable vehicle . . .

• Well if I never had to go on vacation or visit family (or anyone else) outside of Huntsville AL.
• I need each vehicle to carry their own weight and serve my requirements.
• Renting a vehicle is not on my short list because: (1) I have to know ahead of time I need it, and (2) the local rental companies have to have a suitable vehicle.

I don't fault your rationalization for a BMW i3-BEV as having a second, gas/diesel vehicle for longer trips is certainly a solution. In contrast, we have two, plug-in vehicles that either one can run 100% EV for local trips yet still have long, gas legs for cross country trips. Cross country trips taken on my schedule, not the rental company with a gasser or diesel.

Bob Wilson

 

[hightower82]

This is an interesting discussion. I suppose most people want the REx due to range anxiety, but I wonder how they will use the car. IMO, the i3 and other similar EV's are made for commuter cars, not longer trips. As long as you're using it as a commuter car you really don't need the REx. The BEV can be taken on longer trips, but it requires more planning and longer trip times. This is true for the REx as well. So, in the end, the BEV is more suitable for the intended purpose of an EV. All IMHO of course.
Having said that, I want to buy (lease) a BEV but my wife is adamant that if we get an EV, it will be the REx. Why ? She has range anxiety. Even though I try to explain that a REx can leave you stranded if you don't plan ahead, she is still adamant that the REx is the one to get. So, if that's the only way I can get an EV, then.....

That's exactly how I feel. To me, if I had a REX, it would be my primary goal to never use the gasoline motor. So, I'd be carrying around a 600 lbs motor that does nothing but decrease the efficiency of my battery pack and require the same regular maintenance as a regular gas car.
One of the main things that attracts me to EVs outside of the obvious benefit to the environment is the sheer simplicity of the car. So, the REX made no sense to me. I don't suffer from range anxiety because this car is for driving around town. We still own a second gas car, which can serve as our long distance car for now. Eventually I plan on replacing that with a Tesla Model 3 (that will hopefully have a 300 mile range). If that happens, we won't need a second gas car anymore. 300 miles of range combined with Tesla's already fairly extensive charging network means that long distance trips will be very doable.
Its funny to me though that dealerships in my area (Ohio) all think so poorly of the BEV that they won't even consider carrying one on the lot. They all order fully loaded REX's only. That's all you can find locally.

 

[alohart]

To me, if I had a REX, it would be my primary goal to never use the gasoline motor. So, I'd be carrying around a 600 lbs motor that does nothing but decrease the efficiency of my battery pack and require the same regular maintenance as a regular gas car.

To clarify a misconception, a REx weighs only ~280lb. more than a BEV, so the weight penalty is only ~10% which is much less than the weight penalty of the ICE in any other range-extended EV or PHEV.

 

[spinball]

I am attempting to move from a REx to a BEV, but only because of the extra range in the 2017. I live in the midwest where winter can knock up to 30% of your total range on the worst days. Lowest range I saw in my fully-charged REx was right above 50 miles, so only about 25 miles each way!

Even so, I've only used 18 gallons of gas over 15,500 miles. And it served it's purpose as training wheels for a BEV. I now know precisely what to expect in any given situation. I'd still recommend the REx to those brand new to EVs, especially until the charging network is more established (except if you live in California!).

 

[czarmar]

Don't bother trying to get a local i3 - when I leased my '14, no local dealer was willing to give me the deal that I wanted, and I ended up shipping a car from Tennessee - I was extremely happy with the deal and with the process of getting a car out of state that I now have no inhibitions about sourcing a car from a distance. Of course, I'd prefer to work locally, but Chicago area dealerships aren't excited about EVs and they couldn't match prices. I'm very glad to have leased, although I'm a bit bummed that I'm going to be returning the car soon, I saved about $20K by leasing. First I got $10K off MSRP, then $4875 lease credit (for '14), and now the car is worth $12-13K under its residual value. If I had bought the same car at the same deal, I would have been killed on depreciation over the last two years, even though I would have gotten the full $7500.

With this positive leasing experience, I'm looking at getting another lease deal, or picking up a seriously depreciated '14 while I wait for more EVs to hit the road.

 

[pesky]

The thing I hate about BMW dealers, is that when you are buying used, they have absolutely no intention of selling you a vehicle at a 'reasonable' cost, yet when you trade in your vehicle, they verbally abuse the vehicle, about how they can't give you the same price they are selling the same model/year for at a 40% markup! Claiming they have to spend money to 'fix it up' and offer a warranty, bitching that there's no market for them, every damn excuse in the book. A total contradiction of their spiel when you make them an offer on the vehicle they are selling.
I know it's a business and you have to make a profit. It must work on people that are extremely gullible, or have so much money, they don't mind 'giving' it aware ('fool and his money are easily parted').
But it will never work on me!

 

[theothertom]

The thing I hate about BMW dealers, is that when you are buying used, they have absolutely no intention of selling you a vehicle at a 'reasonable' cost, yet when you trade in your vehicle, they verbally abuse the vehicle, about how they can't give you the same price they are selling the same model/year for at a 40% markup! Claiming they have to spend money to 'fix it up' and offer a warranty, bitching that there's no market for them, every damn excuse in the book. A total contradiction of their spiel when you make them an offer on the vehicle they are selling.
I know it's a business and you have to make a profit. It must work on people that are extremely gullible, or have so much money, they don't mind 'giving' it aware ('fool and his money are easily parted').
But it will never work on me!

I had a very open conversation with the sales manager at my local dealership regarding this. He explained that they low ball you because if the car doesn't sell to the general public, they will sell it at auction or to a wholesaler at a considerable lower price than they are asking. So they are protecting themselves from a potential loss. As you say, EV's are hard to sell so most likely it will wind up at auction and the dealer doesn't want to take a loss.
All dealerships (not only BMW) operate this way. They look at the worst case scenario and try to protect themselves from that.

 

[pesky]

But that works one way - They refuse any offers on used cars, A few years ago, I was looking to buy a used vehicle at a local BMW dealer and I said I was interested in making an offer on a car and the salesman out an out told me that the sticker price was firm. Since it was way over priced, I waited until a better deal came up and purchased from another dealer. That make no business sense to not even consider an offer, then sell it at auction for an even lower price.
Price them properly and you'll sell them.
Case in point, a local BMW dealer has a 2014 BEV for US$27K.
Has all options but no leather. They are absolutely dreaming!

 

[theothertom]

Not to defend dealers, but a lot of factors go into whether or not they will accept an offer on a used car. How long it's been on the lot, buyer interest, etc. You are correct in that if you don't like the deal, walk. They're other deals out there.
Regarding the dealer that's asking 27K for the '14 BEV...if you have to say the first number, you'll say a high number if you're selling or a low number if you're buying. So the first number is a "starting point". Also, remember what PT Barnum said...there's a sucker born every minute . On the other hand, if I was looking for a '14 BEV and saw one advertised for 27K, I wouldn't even call the dealer or go by to look at it.

 

[archieb]

Contacted the dealer that we leased our 2014 BEV from. They have one REX in stock and will have no BEVs incoming for the remainder of model year 2017.

To be honest, there did not seem to be any interest or enthusiasm to sell another i3. Rather than being informative, it was like pulling teeth to get information. This is a complete turn around from 2014 when this same dealership actively pursued us to lease an i3.

This is very disappointing, especially since we have been very pleased with our 2014 BEV. We would be happy to replace it with another BMW i3.

Archie

 

[jadnashuanh]

Not all dealerships 'understand' all or the models available to them, and thus, if they've got no interest in them or understanding on where they may excel, so they don't even try. If one sticks on the lot for awhile, the immediate impression is that it is not desirable. If you don't understand the benefits of an EV, or can successfully describe where it may or may not be 'right' for a customer, you can mislead them, and that makes it bad for both the dealership and the potential customer.

When it comes to something like the i3, you also must put some resources into training for the service department and sales group. Otherwise, if something does come in and need work, you can get stuck for an extended period of time while the mechanic 'learns' what is necessary to make it work right again. It's even a bigger investment if the dealership wants to be able to do body work on an i3 or i8...it requires different tools and knowledge to fix it right within the guidelines of the manufacturer without spending way too much time on trial and error.

My other car is a BMW 535GT...that series has lots of features that make it ideal for me, but many dealers don't even stock one so that they could offer it. As a result, it's sort of an orphan or ******* stepchild. IMHO, when that car was first introduced, BMWUSA forced dealerships to buy at least several, fully loaded, very expensive units, and not many people were looking to buy something that cost nearly $100K. That you can buy one for lots less that is quite serviceable, is irrelevant, because managers felt that they would not sell from that initial experience, and thus, didn't try, so didn't order any. You can't sell what you don't have, and if you don't have one, you'll rarely get someone interested enough to buy one, sight-unseen. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[archieb]

I agree with you 100%. What surprises me is that this dealer in 2014-2015 stocked, and sold/leased, a lot of i3s. They are located in a city that has many charging stations, including DC chargers, and a large base of EV owners. The salesperson I spoke to has been there multiple years and is considered one of their i series gurus. When I asked about incoming units he indicated almost all i3 sales are by order only since 2016. The only units they are currently stocking are REX (1 in stock, first one in several months).

Archie