LA auto show driving times

[TomMoloughney]

Well, here it is Tom, as promised. Took pictures of the centre screen where in the REX model at least it shows the % battery in the car.

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Thanks. I wonder if you can access this on non-REx models in Europe. In the US we cannot manually turn the REx on like you can in Europe, we have to wait for it to come on by itself which makes it much less useful. It's a certification/regulation thing unfortunately. I hope someone comes out with a hack for this quickly!!!

 

[TomMoloughney]

I did a blog post about the lack of a state of charge gauge if anyone is interested and used the picture GPVG33 provided. Thanks for that!

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2013/12/no-state-of-charge-gauge-on-i3-really.html

 

[Yiiikes]

An SOC indicator is nothing more than an electronic analog holdover of an ICE fuel gauge. I would much rather have my ICE tell me how many miles I have left in the tank than how many gallons of gas I have left. Or, more accurately, what fraction of a full tank of gas I have left. I have to convert that information in my head, via estimated fuel economy, into applicable data that actually has meaning. The thing I want to know is can I make it to my next destination before having to refuel. I definitely do not care what fraction of a full tank it takes to get there. An SOC is the same kind of useless information if I have a vehicle that tells me how many miles I can go. Even more so if I have a Driving Range Assistant with dynamic range map, which takes account of all relevant factors to determine the most efficient route: battery charge level, driving style, traffic conditions, and topographic features of the route. Let those remnants of ICE driving go and fully embrace the convenience that is possible with an EV and technology.

 

[Waitingi3]

Yiiikes, Something tells me you may not (yet) be driving an EV.

Like you I was very pleased when my ICE cars made "miles to empty" information available, but since I got a Nissan Leaf eighteen months ago I have been continually bothered by the lack of a simple numeric "gas gauge" SOC display. My Leaf has only a pictorial number of bars and a wildly inaccurate estimate of miles to empty.

Your beliefs may change in the future.

 

[Yiiikes]

Actually I have been driving EVs probably before most people on this forum even knew that EVs existed. I had possession of a GM EV1 in 1998 for some time. I worked for a company that designed and built many EV prototypes for all of the OEMs. I can tell you an SOC indicator is only there to make us feel more comfortable in our transition from ICE to EV so that they look and feel like what we are used to. EV can be a new paradigm if you let it be. With the BMW range assistant available, using SOC is like using pencil and paper to do math.

 

[ChrisC]

Welcome to the forum.

Brace yourself, most here feel very strongly about the need for a SOC percentage indicator.

 

[Yiiikes]

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I can definitely see by all of the previous posts that I am swimming against the tide on SOC. I am certainly interested in the dialogue, maybe I can learn something as well.

Best regards

 

[Bunter]

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I can definitely see by all of the previous posts that I am swimming against the tide on SOC. I am certainly interested in the dialogue, maybe I can learn something as well.

Best regards

I have never owned an EV and have only ever had fuel range indicators on IC cars which I've hired. I'm totally open to both camps in that I think it doesn't make any sense at all to worry about having a SOC indicator but equally it doesn't make any sense not to include one!

Cheers

 

[GPVG33]

Well, here it is Tom, as promised. Took pictures of the centre screen where in the REX model at least it shows the % battery in the car.

[/URL]

Thanks. I wonder if you can access this on non-REx models in Europe. In the US we cannot manually turn the REx on like you can in Europe, we have to wait for it to come on by itself which makes it much less useful. It's a certification/regulation thing unfortunately. I hope someone comes out with a hack for this quickly!!!

Wait a minute!!!!!! Now I'm getting nervous, so you are telling me that this feature won't be available at all in the USA? Since I will be driving in Texas, distances can sometimes be longer than expected. One of the reasons I loved the REX model was due to the fact that you did have the ability to plan your range and usage, bug now your telling me that is only cutting in at 5% charge (which I think is too low of charge) only and no manual overwrite capabilities? This can be a deal breaker for me. if and when you go to another meeting would you mind smacking them in the head and ask them what are they thinking? Thanks.

 

[SanSerif]

It's not BMW's design call.

Or rather, the call they had to make was to EITHER give manual control of REx OR to qualify for all the tax and other perks on offer for BEVs in the US (or part of the US - I forget).

If you want to smack someone in the head, I suspect your target should be the politicians in your neck of the woods rather than the engineers in Germany!

 

[SanSerif]

Actually I have been driving EVs probably before most people on this forum even knew that EVs existed. I had possession of a GM EV1 in 1998 for some time. I worked for a company that designed and built many EV prototypes for all of the OEMs. I can tell you an SOC indicator is only there to make us feel more comfortable in our transition from ICE to EV so that they look and feel like what we are used to. EV can be a new paradigm if you let it be. With the BMW range assistant available, using SOC is like using pencil and paper to do math.

I've never driven an EV but on my ICE I find the "range" function much more useful than the fuel needle.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Actually I have been driving EVs probably before most people on this forum even knew that EVs existed. I had possession of a GM EV1 in 1998 for some time. I worked for a company that designed and built many EV prototypes for all of the OEMs. I can tell you an SOC indicator is only there to make us feel more comfortable in our transition from ICE to EV so that they look and feel like what we are used to. EV can be a new paradigm if you let it be. With the BMW range assistant available, using SOC is like using pencil and paper to do math.

I've never driven an EV but on my ICE I find the "range" function much more useful than the fuel needle.

Exactly. The people that have never lived with an EV say that which is where BMW came up with the idea on excluding it, knowing that the vast majority of i3 purchasers will be first time EV owners. However the VAST majority of seasoned EV drivers say they wouldn't want an EV without a numeric SOC gauge. When I don't have experience with something, I turn to those that do for advice. If you haven't ever owned an EV it's reasonable to listen to those that have and see what their thoughts on certain things are. That's not to say you will eventually agree with them, but it's probably a good idea to at least listen to their opinions.

I think many people are missing the root of the issue here. Nobody is saying BMW should remove the range assistant or even the way they display the bar graph on the drivers screen (although I would have given it more than four segments - probably ten). All we that are advocating is to have a simple numeric state of charge display buried somewhere in the iDrive so we can find it if we want it. Other drivers would not be forced to look at it -ever. Just include it in there for those that are interested in it. The car knows it's state of charge so it's not like they would have to spend a lot of money to do this, in fact the European i3's with the REx already display it.

I've been driving EV's for 5 years and I can tell you for sure I won't use the range assistant. I'll hack the car and install my own SOC gauge if necessary. It won't be hard or expensive but I'm just hoping I don't have to go through the trouble, that's all.

 

[GPVG33]

It's not BMW's design call.

Or rather, the call they had to make was to EITHER give manual control of REx OR to qualify for all the tax and other perks on offer for BEVs in the US (or part of the US - I forget).

If you want to smack someone in the head, I suspect your target should be the politicians in your neck of the woods rather than the engineers in Germany!

I'm sorry, but it is BMW's call. This is just a way for them to have the BMW i3 approved as a total zero emission vehicle in States like California. It is a huge selling point due to the fact they are allowed to use HOV lanes, even in the REX model. It's all about sales, but taking that in mind, everyone else who does not live in those extreme states have to pay for it.... Nothing to do with politicians. The car it's what it is, an electric vehicle with a range extender. Tax credits are the same for all electric cars! even the volt gets it which is similar mechanics of operation, and for the REX to kick in at 5% or manually kick in at 30% does not change the mechanics or the way it works.

 

[Plug]

It's not BMW's design call.

Or rather, the call they had to make was to EITHER give manual control of REx OR to qualify for all the tax and other perks on offer for BEVs in the US (or part of the US - I forget).

If you want to smack someone in the head, I suspect your target should be the politicians in your neck of the woods rather than the engineers in Germany!

I'm sorry, but it is BMW's call. This is just a way for them to have the BMW i3 approved as a total zero emission vehicle in States like California. It is a huge selling point due to the fact they are allowed to use HOV lanes, even in the REX model. It's all about sales, but taking that in mind, everyone else who does not live in those extreme states have to pay for it.... Nothing to do with politicians. The car it's what it is, an electric vehicle with a range extender. Tax credits are the same for all electric cars! even the volt gets it which is similar mechanics of operation, and for the REX to kick in at 5% or manually kick in at 30% does not change the mechanics or the way it works.

You haven't explained what you think BMW should do about this ? Do you expect them to manufacture a Californian spec i3 and a different one for Texas ? Or do you think BMW should ignore what is best for Californians and produce the US spec i3 to allow manual engagement of the REx as per the Euro spec ? Or something else ?

As for SOC %, I've never driven an EV either but I already know that I'll be wanting to show that. On similar lines, I just bought a new android phone and the first thing I did was find an app to show me the missing SOC % :ugeek:

 

[GPVG33]

It's not BMW's design call.

Or rather, the call they had to make was to EITHER give manual control of REx OR to qualify for all the tax and other perks on offer for BEVs in the US (or part of the US - I forget).

If you want to smack someone in the head, I suspect your target should be the politicians in your neck of the woods rather than the engineers in Germany!

I'm sorry, but it is BMW's call. This is just a way for them to have the BMW i3 approved as a total zero emission vehicle in States like California. It is a huge selling point due to the fact they are allowed to use HOV lanes, even in the REX model. It's all about sales, but taking that in mind, everyone else who does not live in those extreme states have to pay for it.... Nothing to do with politicians. The car it's what it is, an electric vehicle with a range extender. Tax credits are the same for all electric cars! even the volt gets it which is similar mechanics of operation, and for the REX to kick in at 5% or manually kick in at 30% does not change the mechanics or the way it works.

You haven't explained what you think BMW should do about this ? Do you expect them to manufacture a Californian spec i3 and a different one for Texas ? Or do you think BMW should ignore what is best for Californians and produce the US spec i3 to allow manual engagement of the REx as per the Euro spec ? Or something else ?

As for SOC %, I've never driven an EV either but I already know that I'll be wanting to show that. On similar lines, I just bought a new android phone and the first thing I did was find an app to show me the missing SOC % :ugeek:

I would say probably to have it as an option, even in California! Leave the option to the consumer, is only a small reprogramming issue.

 

[ultraturtle]

I've driven electric for a little less than two years, and if I had to choose between an SOC gauge and a range remaining display, I would choose to know the car's best guess of miles remaining:

• - It is, after all, the number we really want after making the calculation to convert from SOC.
  - Manufacturers seem to be making the miles remaining calculation more accurate each year. My current car calculates it based on past driving behavior, and while not very accurate, is very consistent.
  - As long as the indicator is consistent, conversion to an accurate number is easy. For instance, I simply add 5% to range remaining with the air conditioning off, and 10% with the air conditioner on, to get an accurate number.
  - I would guess that most EVs display slightly less range remaining than you probably have. Go by it, and worst case will have you arriving at a charging opportunity with a bit more range remaining than initially expected. Not the end of the world.
  - An SOC indicator can easily be added by using a ScanGauge or smartphone with the Torque app.

The point that resonates on this forum, however, is that we shouldn't need to be limited to just one of these displays when it is easy enough for BMW to provide both. I think we would all be okay with having the miles remaining displayed prominently on the main display (as it is now), with the SOC indicator buried but accessible in the iDrive menu structure.

 

[viut]

I am sorry - but I can't realy see the trouble with the display. I have been so lucky to drive the i3 for a day yesterday, in realy hevy snow conditions for a day. I found the range given extremly exact, and when I enterede my destination in the navigation system it managed to calculate the estimated consumtions - and range exactly - even with heavy weather conditions. After driving 45km the range differed 1 km from the start of the drive.

Off course it is neat to se the % remaining - and this should be an option , but I think BMW has done a fantastic job in the calculation, and how the range is estimated.

The handeling of the car in theese conditions was also good. I normaly drive an 4x4, in adition to an A2 (that the i3 is going to replace). I found the i3 superior to the A2, and had no problems - even in getting over large snow drifts. I think the combination of low weight, large weels, and a good electronic drive support system helps a lot.

It must be noted that I drove an european version - and this might be different from the American

 

[TomMoloughney]

"The point that resonates on this forum, however, is that we shouldn't need to be limited to just one of these displays when it is easy enough for BMW to provide both. I think we would all be okay with having the miles remaining displayed prominently on the main display (as it is now), with the SOC indicator buried but accessible in the iDrive menu structure."

Bingo!

 

[Davidfromdigswell]

Really interested to read of your experiences of driving the car in the snow. I am still undecided whether to purchase a set of winter tyres for my i3 which is due to be delivered at the end of January. I have not been able to find any one in the UK who can provide a set of winter tyres on steel rims, so my only choice seems to be to buy the tyres without rims and to arrange for them to be fitted and balanced by a garage, or to purchase a set on tyres on alloys from BMW which I could put on and take off easily myself, but these cost £1500 for the standard alloys and nearly £1900 for the turbine wheels. Was the grip still good under regenerative and normal braking?

 

[ChrisC]

Now I'm getting nervous, so you are telling me that this feature won't be available at all in the USA? Since I will be driving in Texas, distances can sometimes be longer than expected. One of the reasons I loved the REX model was due to the fact that you did have the ability to plan your range and usage, bug now your telling me that is only cutting in at 5% charge (which I think is too low of charge) only and no manual overwrite capabilities? This can be a deal breaker for me.

Precisely. Now you see why we are discussing this so much. Being able to force the REx on (aka "hold mode" in the Chevy Volt) is a hugely important feature, but BMW is chasing the California regulations.

Personally I think this is much more important than the SOC percentage display.

As it turns out, the Georgia tax situation is leading me towards a pure BEV, non REx, so it doesn't matter to me anymore