i3 Software Update (USA)

[jadnashuanh]

The i3's ACC uses image recognition logic from a visible light camera. SOme other cars use lasers or radar. The visible light camera can be fooled by shadows (such as from an overpass or trees), especially if there isn't a vehicle it can see in front of it. THen, sometimes, especially if the road doesn't have good lane markings visible, on a curve, it can be fooled by an approaching vehicle when it may think it is in your lane. To turn the ACC portion off, press and hold one of the distance following buttons on the steering wheel. Also, if you have the safety avoidance button on, it may 'see' an animal or person in the road or nearby, and slow down.

 

[Neil]

Thanks to all for the tip on how to deactivate the ACC and use it as a DCC (dumb cruise control). It came in handy for today's commute home.

David- the symptoms you describe are ones I've experienced as well. It sees ghosts. Were you able to get those issues addressed? I've assumed that was a quirk of the technology at this point in time and hopefully might get better with future software updates. Let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

 

[jasleinstein]

"In some cases the charging rate may be reduced by up to 30% but will no longer result in the potential for a total loss of charging."
is incorrect. ALL charging will not exceed 5kW. I pressed BMW and the service center hard on the issue and they told me 5KW is the max, and it might be lower depending on temperature.

I have checked mine with my home automation system. When the overnight temp was 40 degrees and car was sitting cold, the max charge was 5 kW. BMW need to fess up to this.

 

[Chrisn]

ALL charging will not exceed 5kW

That's not possible since a charge from empty (accounting for overhead/losses) would require 20-21kWh which, at 5kW would (given slower charging for last 10-15% of SOC), be 4.5+ hours, not the 3.5 hours clearly claimed on window sticker and advertising.

And, since my car had the software "fix" before I took delivery AND the the dealer didn't tell me anything about it, that would be false advertising / fraud.

So you MUST be mistaken.....

 

[noakey]

ALL charging will not exceed 5kW

That's not possible since a charge from empty (accounting for overhead/losses) would require 20-21kWh which, at 5kW would (given slower charging for last 10-15% of SOC), be 4.5+ hours, not the 3.5 hours clearly claimed on window sticker and advertising.

And, since my car had the software "fix" before I took delivery AND the the dealer didn't tell me anything about it, that would be false advertising / fraud.

So you MUST be mistaken.....

It's no mistake... Following a blown KLE replacement and software update I only get 5.2kw max rate... i discovered myself and when I challenged bmw the said yes... why didn't they tell me?

 

[jasleinstein]

Chrisn,

Yes same with me. I took possession of the car with the software downgrade of charging. Neither BMW nor the dealer told me anything about the downgrade. In buying the car I said over and over charging time is critical as we have two EVs and they have to share power from a 1905 home with limited service. I told them we only had 4.5 to 5 hours MAX and it must be programmed to start charging at 3 AM and stop at 8 AM. When I found my charging had dropped to 3 kW due to the KLE fail I was talking to the sales manager at Seattle BMW, London Agrawal, telling him the car I received was not the car I ordered and specified, he told me "Maybe the car doesn't work how you "like" but we can take your issues to BMW."

 

[Chrisn]

Well, as long as they agree to "take your issues to BMW," then you're golden.


In all seriousness, if they resolve the issue "in a few weeks" as was told to me when I called to complain, then I will forgive them. But if weeks turn into months, then that is a problem for me. I have a specific route that I take frequently with a limited recharge window before return trip. It's tight to do without REX, but this exact issue has caused me to burn some gas in my final few miles that FOR SURE could have been avoided with full speed charging. Not a huge deal (few tenths of a gallon), but still annoying.

 

[M2140]

Well, as long as they agree to "take your issues to BMW," then you're golden.


In all seriousness, if they resolve the issue "in a few weeks" as was told to me when I called to complain, then I will forgive them. But if weeks turn into months, then that is a problem for me. I have a specific route that I take frequently with a limited recharge window before return trip. It's tight to do without REX, but this exact issue has caused me to burn some gas in my final few miles that FOR SURE could have been avoided with full speed charging. Not a huge deal (few tenths of a gallon), but still annoying.

Its going to be a couple of months for the fix man. I've been told that the new KLE will not be available till later in the year in the November and December timeframe. The reduced charging is BMW's way of trying to avoid more KLE's from failing. My i3 has been at the dealer for 3 weeks now and starting it's 4th week trying to get slow charging and several other issues fixed. I don't think BMW dealers know or have the skills to service the cars. They had to transport mine back to Oxnard and they flew in a guy from Germany to attempt to troubleshoot and fix my car. the Germany guys have had it for 3 days now and no update.

 

[jasleinstein]

I was told by the service manager that replaced my KLE (in my three week old i3) that is absolutely the case. He told me if I begin to charge after the car has been driven, or the external temp is over 70 or so (I live in Seattle ) expect the charge rate to be lower than 5 kW. When my car started charging at 3.4 kW last week he suspected it was this case. But it also happened when the car and temps were cool. The service techs at Seattle BMW are awesome and convinced BMW to send a new KLE.

 

[jasleinstein]

Chrisn,

actually "Well, as long as they agree to "take your issues to BMW," then you're golden." is not good. BMW pretty much ignores dealers and customers. Early on when I was on the phone with iconcierge, simply trying to get the user manual in PDF form, the rep told me "BMW has us hung out to dry here" four times during our conversation.
You think BMW corporate reads these forums? Not a chance.

When I bought my first X5, there was a condition that would cause the car to drift into an intersection, dead, no brakes, no steering, no accelerator, etc. This happened several times. When I spoke to a regional BMW rep about the issue, he all but called me a lier. I told him it was clearly a software bug and within a few months they would call me and want to upgrade the software.
Surely enough, about three months later I got that call.

 

[M2140]

I was told by the service manager that replaced my KLE (in my three week old i3) that is absolutely the case. He told me if I begin to charge after the car has been driven, or the external temp is over 70 or so (I live in Seattle ) expect the charge rate to be lower than 5 kW. When my car started charging at 3.4 kW last week he suspected it was this case. But it also happened when the car and temps were cool. The service techs at Seattle BMW are awesome and convinced BMW to send a new KLE.

The problem with replacing the KLE is that the KLE your getting has the same problem. BMW will replace KLE's that are having problems if they fail. But you still have the same problem with reduced charging until the new redesigned part comes out. That redesigned part fix for the KLE will not happen till the end of the year.

For those of us that live in hot weather, being told that reduced charging is the norm is not acceptable. We would only have 3 months out of the year of normal charging and no other EV Manufacturer has the same problem. BMW should have better tested charging in hot weather and designed a cooling solution that would allow for normal charging. The whole battery has a cooling system, why was the KLE left out if they knew it would have problems?

 

[jadnashuanh]

Look, I'm not supporting BMW on this, but keep in mind that prototypes verses mass production parts don't always work the same way, even if the design seems identical. All it could take is one land on the circuit board not being made large enough, where on the prototype, it may have been a jumper wire that could handle the heat and current. Or, sourcing a part from vendor A when it was working when built with a part from vendor B. Once identified, it may not be a hard fix, but then, you have probably over 10K of the things out there now, and the production line running, so it's not easy to make 10K of anything fast, if it's a bit more than a very simple part. Now, if the fix doesn't work, then I'd be much more worried.

I had one of the early Audi A6's...the thing had two fuel sensors to determine the gas levels. The fuel in the USA has more sulfur than in Europe. The sensors corroded, leaving you with an inoperative gas gauge. They replaced them. They didn't last, third redesign, the finally work reliably. Markets are different, conditions are different, testing only goes so far - then throw in subcontractors maybe making small changes to make the production faster or easier or cheaper, and the thing may not always work as designed.

Give them a chance.

 

[Chrisn]

@ jadnashuanh:

I agree with you to a point, but what I suspect here is that BMW has over-corrected toward the conservative for THEIR benefit versus their customers' that were given cars not performing to advertised specs (or recalled to de-tune to that configuration).

What I mean is that it feels like they have de-tuned the charging to a target level calculated to avoid ANY future failures with a very high confidence (perhaps 99.9%). Instead, they ought give customers a choice (perhaps via quick addition of another L2 charge rate in the menu, coupled with a warning screen if you select the original factory-spec 7.4kW rate ("warning: known issue could cause a charging failure if you use 7.4kW charging")). If I want to use the advertised charging rate and face a 10% (or whatever) risk of failure, I should have that right. If the part fails, I should get a new one for free. All existing defective parts (in cars and spares) will eventually be junked anyway. Frankly, I think they INTENTIONALLY deceived people about the SW update by not CLEARLY disclosing the reduced charging rate (versus a vague reference to temperature management that they knew to be "cute").

This isn't a safety issue, it is a convenience issue and an economic issue. BMW should take ALL the lumps here until they resolve it. Frankly, the de-tuning SW update kinda takes the pressure off of them to provide a long-term fix ASAP.

I call BS.

 

[kevinb61]

@ jadnashuanh:

Instead, they ought give customers a choice (perhaps via quick addition of another L2 charge rate in the menu, coupled with a warning screen if you select the original factory-spec 7.4kW rate ("warning: known issue could cause a charging failure if you use 7.4kW charging")). If I want to use the advertised charging rate and face a 10% (or whatever) risk of failure, I should have that right. If the part fails, I should get a new one for free. I call BS.

Uhhh, so you are saying you should be able to "blow up parts" knowing there is a design deficiency at the moment, and it is BMW's responsibility to pay for you continually "blowing them up"??

Wow.......

I'm really lost here. A brand-new design car has a design defect, which BMW says they are fixing (within a reasonable timeframe IMO), and people are all upset...OK...

Thank God you guys didn't buy Cadillac V8-6-4s or Oldsmobile Diesel V8s :lol:

 

[jadnashuanh]

I have grown up and lived in the USA my whole life (well, I have lived elsewhere for about 4 years), but I do not abide by the sense of entitlement some people seem to think they have, or their propensity to sue at the drop of a hat. Some common sense would seem to be called for. Parts don't magically appear in moments. Ensuring that the car operates until the 'fix is in' seems entirely the responsible thing to do, rather than risking it sitting in the shop waiting for parts, pissing people off more. Even if you have to use non-reduced electrical rates for part of your charging (keep in mind, those are not available everywhere - in fact, it's probably the majority of people that cannot access them), it's still MUCH less expensive than using fossil fuel to move your car. I look at it as the cost of being on the cutting edge. Sort of like the first hard drive I bought way back when - 10Mbytes - over $500 and slower than molasses (but faster than the floppy disks!).

 

[kevinb61]

Sort of like the first hard drive I bought way back when - 10Mbytes - over $500 and slower than molasses (but faster than the floppy disks!).

Hehehe...the good ol days. My first hard drive was a "Davong" (can't believe I can still remember the name) 5MB for $1500! And it had to be replaced around every 6-8 months because the bearings in the drive would go bad.....

 

[Chrisn]

Uhhh, so you are saying you should be able to "blow up parts" knowing there is a design deficiency at the moment, and it is BMW's responsibility to pay for you continually "blowing them up"??

Wow.......

I don't know what the failure rate was on the original KLE + Original software. If it were 90% (or 50%), then I would agree with you. I assume the failure rate was <10% (probably <5%). BMW has this info. If so, it is reasonable to allow consumers to operate their cars as promised and as designed if they choose to bear the risk of hassle and inconvenience of a trip to the shop. Many people would choose to opt for a lower charge rate and a near-zero risk of failure until a new part emerges. Others might choose to charge at full speed and take the risk. The expected cost of additional failures would be modest. BMW should cover it.

What is unreasonable about that? I was promised a car that charges from empty in 3.5 hours. I would like to have that car, please.

In the status quo, BMW has managed THEIR cost/risk at OUR expense (for their screw up). Wow.

For the record, my first hard drive was attached to the side expansion port of my Amiga 500 (a SCSI device in there I think). I think it was 10MB capacity and it never let me down. I don't recall the cost. This would have been 1987 or 88 I guess.

 

[M2140]

@ jadnashuanh:

Instead, they ought give customers a choice (perhaps via quick addition of another L2 charge rate in the menu, coupled with a warning screen if you select the original factory-spec 7.4kW rate ("warning: known issue could cause a charging failure if you use 7.4kW charging")). If I want to use the advertised charging rate and face a 10% (or whatever) risk of failure, I should have that right. If the part fails, I should get a new one for free. I call BS.

Uhhh, so you are saying you should be able to "blow up parts" knowing there is a design deficiency at the moment, and it is BMW's responsibility to pay for you continually "blowing them up"??

Wow.......

I'm really lost here. A brand-new design car has a design defect, which BMW says they are fixing (within a reasonable timeframe IMO), and people are all upset...OK...

Thank God you guys didn't buy Cadillac V8-6-4s or Oldsmobile Diesel V8s :lol:

You have it all wrong man. This is not BMW's first electric car. Presumably the active e was used to test and develop the technology and hardware in I3. No one was allowed to actually own active e's because BMW knew they would have problems and they were more of a test bed.

On the charging issues BMW is not being forward about the issues they are having with the KLE. Have you seen any service bulletin on the issue? Have any emails gone out to drivers warning them about level 2 fast charging? No. Only message is bring your car in for a recall for a software update. No warning to drivers that they are going to experience slower charging. It's always a surprise.

In fact, When I dealt with my dealer they tried to tell me it was my constant Rex use that was heating up the KLE and causing the slow charging. Even though every time i had a problem, the Rex was never used. Tell me if you can keep your same point of view if you plan a trip and expect to quick charger, quick charge fails so you go to your backup plan of level 2 fast charging of 3.5 to 4.5 hrs, The battery is at 10% and you need a full charge to get home and now you 30 min to 1 hr recharge time turn into a 6 hr recharge time. What do you do then? the only options are wait the 6 hrs or get a flat bed truck to get home.


My car is starting it's 4th week at the dealer and this is it's 2nd visit for issues. BMW shipped my car from the dealer in Ontario to a repair facility in Oxnard because they could not fix it. My dealer tells me that someone from Germany had to fly out to troubleshoot and fix my car. 3 weeks later and there is no communication at all from BMW NA on the status of my car. No word if any issues have been resolved, based on what I can see on the remote app it looks like nothing, and there is no end in sight.

Brand new cars, even new models, should not have these many problems or require extended stays at the dealer. You would expect a big company like BMW would have the process in place to properly test new models before releasing them to the public. Even a new company like Tesla that you would expect the cars would have a ton of problems have handled things much better than BMW. Tesla is very open and forthcoming about the issues with the cars and rather than have people experience extended dealer stays they go out of their way to get the cars back quick and enable remote updates at home so a dealer stay is not required.

I think the main problem here is that BMW is not properly communicating to i3 owners of issues or potential issues we are going to face. Dealer service is really bad and none of them are properly prepared to service the i3's. Dealers rely completely on BMW NA in New Jersey and those guys can take 2-3 days to respond. BMW needs to get it act straight and communicate with owners and improve dealer service.

 

[noakey]

@ jadnashuanh:

Instead, they ought give customers a choice (perhaps via quick addition of another L2 charge rate in the menu, coupled with a warning screen if you select the original factory-spec 7.4kW rate ("warning: known issue could cause a charging failure if you use 7.4kW charging")). If I want to use the advertised charging rate and face a 10% (or whatever) risk of failure, I should have that right. If the part fails, I should get a new one for free. I call BS.

Uhhh, so you are saying you should be able to "blow up parts" knowing there is a design deficiency at the moment, and it is BMW's responsibility to pay for you continually "blowing them up"??

Wow.......

I'm really lost here. A brand-new design car has a design defect, which BMW says they are fixing (within a reasonable timeframe IMO), and people are all upset...OK...

Thank God you guys didn't buy Cadillac V8-6-4s or Oldsmobile Diesel V8s :lol:

You have it all wrong man. This is not BMW's first electric car. Presumably the active e was used to test and develop the technology and hardware in I3. No one was allowed to actually own active e's because BMW knew they would have problems and they were more of a test bed.

On the charging issues BMW is not being forward about the issues they are having with the KLE. Have you seen any service bulletin on the issue? Have any emails gone out to drivers warning them about level 2 fast charging? No. Only message is bring your car in for a recall for a software update. No warning to drivers that they are going to experience slower charging. It's always a surprise.

In fact, When I dealt with my dealer they tried to tell me it was my constant Rex use that was heating up the KLE and causing the slow charging. Even though every time i had a problem, the Rex was never used. Tell me if you can keep your same point of view if you plan a trip and expect to quick charger, quick charge fails so you go to your backup plan of level 2 fast charging of 3.5 to 4.5 hrs, The battery is at 10% and you need a full charge to get home and now you 30 min to 1 hr recharge time turn into a 6 hr recharge time. What do you do then? the only options are wait the 6 hrs or get a flat bed truck to get home.


My car is starting it's 4th week at the dealer and this is it's 2nd visit for issues. BMW shipped my car from the dealer in Ontario to a repair facility in Oxnard because they could not fix it. My dealer tells me that someone from Germany had to fly out to troubleshoot and fix my car. 3 weeks later and there is no communication at all from BMW NA on the status of my car. No word if any issues have been resolved, based on what I can see on the remote app it looks like nothing, and there is no end in sight.

Brand new cars, even new models, should not have these many problems or require extended stays at the dealer. You would expect a big company like BMW would have the process in place to properly test new models before releasing them to the public. Even a new company like Tesla that you would expect the cars would have a ton of problems have handled things much better than BMW. Tesla is very open and forthcoming about the issues with the cars and rather than have people experience extended dealer stays they go out of their way to get the cars back quick and enable remote updates at home so a dealer stay is not required.

I think the main problem here is that BMW is not properly communicating to i3 owners of issues or potential issues we are going to face. Dealer service is really bad and none of them are properly prepared to service the i3's. Dealers rely completely on BMW NA in New Jersey and those guys can take 2-3 days to respond. BMW needs to get it act straight and communicate with owners and improve dealer service.

Agreed. ...

 

[Buskraut]

This is the email I received on Aug 29th (ironically, AFTER I had the software updated). Personally I don't think this issue is a big deal, at least for my use. The car takes a little longer to charge than its supposed to, and BMW said they will have it fixed in the next 3 months. If they follow through, I'm good with their response to the situation.


My name is Bryce with BMW of North America, LLC and we wanted to reach out to you to provide important information regarding your BMW i3.

Through BMW’s quality control process, we have become aware of intermittent vehicle software deficiencies, which can be corrected with software updates available from your BMW i3 center. To have the software update performed, please contact your authorized BMW i3 center to schedule a service appointment at your earliest convenience.

The BMW i3 Charging Electronics Control Unit (KLE) can be permanently damaged during hot ambient temperature charging. A temporary software solution will prevent damage to the KLE control unit and the charging rate will now be temperature dependant. In some cases the charging rate may be reduced by 30%. Full 7.4 kW charging will be restored with further improvements in late 2014.

The software update also includes measures that will solve the following issues:
• Air Conditioning issues for the Battery Electric i3
• Check Engine Light activation for the Range Extender i3
• 12V Battery discharge

Unfortunately, the reprogramming will take approximately 3-4 hours. Additional time may be required depending upon the center’s scheduling and processing. The software update will be performed free of charge. Thank you for your support and cooperation.

Should you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us (855) 236-1025. The BMW i Customer Relations and Services Department is available Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., ET.

Sincerely,

Bryce Winters
BMW of North America, LLC.