How Do You Engage Neutral w/Dead 12v Battery

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RoadJager

Active member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
33
I woke up to a dead 12v accessory battery. The owners manual has been no help as I have not found any reference to how to get to neutral for towing with a dead 12v accessory battery. If anyone has some insight it would be appreciated. Some of the towman may not know either.
Thanks ahead of time
 
As far as I can recall, BMW don't provide a facility to achieve this. If that recollection is correct you only really have three options - a full lift onto a flatbed (i.e. a cradle under each wheel) or the lack of 12V has to be resolved where it is using a jump-start pack (or of course replacing the 12V battery in situ).
 
The parking pawl is bolted on to the top of the gearbox at a relatively accessible location so I wonder how readily it can be removed while engaged. I haven't explored it to see if there's a way to manually manipulate it to disengage it, but that would certainly be ideal.
 
My stylized brick (I3) in my garage has taught me a lot. Most towman will NOT touch any car that can not be put in neutral., especially electric cars. But includes both gas and electric. Apparently Tesla can be put in tow-mode. I have not verified it because I don't care about Teslas. Not all BMW dealerships have the battery in stock nor do they seem to want to expedite one in as BMW batteries come from East Penn Company. (Not a geographical place) Prices vary radically from dealer to dealer as much as $175 for a $250 MSRP battery. Some dealers say you have to replace the battery terminals ($80 eachx2) when replacing the battery.....WRONG.....they are transferred. So I decided to just f**king replace it my self. I am tired for the bulls**t they were saying. My local dealership, whose hands are tied by East Penn's service, have indicated they get restocked in 3 days. (it's kind of an expensive bigger lawn mower battery) So I will wait for their shipment to come in.
I found a good YOU TUBE tutorial and will just replace the battery myself. Removal took 15-20 minutes as it was the first time doing this procedure for me. If i had a battery available to me, the car would have been up and running in about an hour. I have decent rapport with my dealership and they indicated they will register the battery to the car for me.
I feel grateful that the battery decided to expire in my own garage versus elsewhere with my wife driving. By doing it myself I have saved the struggle, cost and possible damage from attempting a tow truck.
Thanks to eNate for your suggestion but that procedure was way above my pay grade and was not comfortable with the procedure.
Lesson Learned: Just have the 12v Accessory Battery replaced every 5 years as a maintenance item and save being stranded......

Jager
 
Not all BMW dealerships have the battery in stock nor do they seem to want to expedite one in as BMW batteries come from East Penn Company. (Not a geographical place)
Hmm, East Penn Manufacturing is in Lyon Station, PA, which is in eastern Pennsylvania. :)
I feel grateful that the battery decided to expire in my own garage versus elsewhere with my wife driving.
A failing 12V battery is most likely to fail after being parked overnight rather than shortly after driving because the DC-DC converter remains on for up to 30 minutes after shutting an i3 down. I suppose it could fail after being parked for 8+ hours while at work.
Lesson Learned: Just have the 12v Accessory Battery replaced every 5 years as a maintenance item and save being stranded......
After new 2014 i3 owners were reporting failing 12V batteries after 3 years, I decided to order a replacement to have when the battery in our 2014 i3 failed so I wouldn't have to pay the BMW tax at our local BWM dealer and be dependent on them having one in stock. I charged it about twice per year with a 12V battery charger so that its charge level wouldn't decrease too much via self-discharge. Turns out, the original battery in the 2014 i3 that we bought new lasted over 7 years, but I was ready when it failed. I had another spare when the battery in our used 2019 i3 failed in 2023, a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery that I hope will last much longer than the OEM AGM battery. I swapped it into our used 2021 i3 before we sold our 2021 i3 and have a spare LFP battery for when that battery fails.

However, I realize that most i3 owners don't have a 12V battery charger and wouldn't want to maintain a spare battery, so a preemptive replacement is probably the best solution for them.
 
In a pinch, any 12 volt battery will do to get the car booted up. And conveniently, there are "easily" accessible 12 volt terminals underneath the motor cover in the tailgate, just 8 screws away from daylight.
 
Hmm, East Penn Manufacturing is in Lyon Station, PA, which is in eastern Pennsylvania. :)

A failing 12V battery is most likely to fail after being parked overnight rather than shortly after driving because the DC-DC converter remains on for up to 30 minutes after shutting an i3 down. I suppose it could fail after being parked for 8+ hours while at work.

After new 2014 i3 owners were reporting failing 12V batteries after 3 years, I decided to order a replacement to have when the battery in our 2014 i3 failed so I wouldn't have to pay the BMW tax at our local BWM dealer and be dependent on them having one in stock. I charged it about twice per year with a 12V battery charger so that its charge level wouldn't decrease too much via self-discharge. Turns out, the original battery in the 2014 i3 that we bought new lasted over 7 years, but I was ready when it failed. I had another spare when the battery in our used 2019 i3 failed in 2023, a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery that I hope will last much longer than the OEM AGM battery. I swapped it into our used 2021 i3 before we sold our 2021 i3 and have a spare LFP battery for when that battery fails.

However, I realize that most i3 owners don't have a 12V battery charger and wouldn't want to maintain a spare battery, so a preemptive replacement is probably the best solution for them.
Where did you get the 12V LFP battery from, or the model number? Thanks.
 
Hmm, East Penn Manufacturing is in Lyon Station, PA, which is in eastern Pennsylvania. :)

A failing 12V battery is most likely to fail after being parked overnight rather than shortly after driving because the DC-DC converter remains on for up to 30 minutes after shutting an i3 down. I suppose it could fail after being parked for 8+ hours while at work.

After new 2014 i3 owners were reporting failing 12V batteries after 3 years, I decided to order a replacement to have when the battery in our 2014 i3 failed so I wouldn't have to pay the BMW tax at our local BWM dealer and be dependent on them having one in stock. I charged it about twice per year with a 12V battery charger so that its charge level wouldn't decrease too much via self-discharge. Turns out, the original battery in the 2014 i3 that we bought new lasted over 7 years, but I was ready when it failed. I had another spare when the battery in our used 2019 i3 failed in 2023, a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery that I hope will last much longer than the OEM AGM battery. I swapped it into our used 2021 i3 before we sold our 2021 i3 and have a spare LFP battery for when that battery fails.

However, I realize that most i3 owners don't have a 12V battery charger and wouldn't want to maintain a spare battery, so a preemptive replacement is probably the best solution for them.
Yes, 2017 owner here (in extreme climate - hot/cold - Colorado). I replace mine profilactically ever 3 years. Remy Battery order online. What is the LFP one you use? Exact same physical size? I assume it doesn’t need the vent connection?
 
My 2018 REx is OK so far with about 29,000 miles on the clock. (Had less than 9,000 when I bought it in late 2020.) Do we know whether this is a time-based problem? Or mileage-based? I've no error messages yet. Thanks to the forum, I can now source the battery from Remy Batteries, though not available until after August 30. I watched their DIY video, and while I saw nothing that I can't do, there certainly are a lot of fiddly bits. I think I will let my local indie do it. Sooner rather than later!
 
I wouldn’t expect error messages. On one of my first trip after I bought the car in 2020 the DC fast charging was acting weird/glitchy. At first I thought it might just be Electrify America, but looking at online forums the symptoms were in line with 12V battery failure (don’t remember exact issues). The car had 23k miles on it. I have heard from people running the original 12V battery for a very long time, but I am guessing the lease holder wasn’t kind to the car, and the cold weather here probably didn’t help. The 12V battery is rather low capacity and from what I understand recharges only while driving or when Level 1 or 2 charging. Degradation has less to do with age or mileage - only as a function of charge/discharge cycles I would think, and how low it gets run, etc.
 
My 2018 REx is OK so far with about 29,000 miles on the clock. (Had less than 9,000 when I bought it in late 2020.) Do we know whether this is a time-based problem? Or mileage-based? I've no error messages yet. Thanks to the forum, I can now source the battery from Remy Batteries, though not available until after August 30. I watched their DIY video, and while I saw nothing that I can't do, there certainly are a lot of fiddly bits. I think I will let my local indie do it. Sooner rather than later!
Ours did very well and was the original AGM from 2017! I guess we literally, squeezed the juice out of it. I won't, nor do I suggest going that long.
 
My 12V battery on a 2017 i3 REX died in the parking lot at work after being parked for 10 hours (we work 4 X 10hr day shifts). I had gotten a warning message over the weekend with the car plugged into a 10A 110V level I charger all weekend. It was saying something about excessive discharge, but wasn't specific about which battery. It meant that the 12V battery level was decreasing while parked. Once you see that, replace your battery that very day... or else.

I had to jump start the car to get the electronics to power up. Once they came up, I had one trip until it went dead again, so I called a local dealer, and drove directly there once boosted. They had me park it in the lineup to the garage, and shut it down. They had to boost it again to move it to another location, and again to put it where they were going to work on it.

If your battery is VERY dead, even using a 12V pack to jump it may not be enough. You may have to also disconnect one of the regular battery terminals and keep it from shorting out. VERY dead batteries draw a lot of current and do not charge up to 12V.

Jump starting for me involved taking out the frunk and getting to the battery terminals in the front. I left it out when driving to the dealer, and let them put it back, as it has to come out to replace the battery anyway. Don't lose the screws. I put mine back into the holes they were in (finger tight only) after removing the frunk so I wouldn't mix them up or lose them.

The terminals in the back are easier to get to normally, but smaller and closer together, and under all the stuff I had in the hatch area. In either case, you are better off using a booster pack that has smaller size alligator clips than the standard size used on normal cars. There is very limited space if you try to get to the terminals in the front, so clips that are no more than 3 inches on a side are better, and small hands. In the back you need small light clips so they don't touch each other or anything else because the terminals are close together.

You do not need to disable the HV battery to bump an i3, in fact, you cannot bump an i3 without the HV system active. The DC-DC runs off the high voltage system to produce the aux power and recharge the battery. If the HV system is disabled it won't come on, and as soon as you disconnect the jump start pack, the car will die again. I don't think you can bump an i3 by plugging into the 12V cigarette lighter ports like you can on ICE cars. Those are powered by the DC-DC converter, and not reversible as far as I understand. It is too bad, that would be a quick, simple, and safe way to bump the car if it worked.

I mention the HV disconnect only because it was listed as a necessary safety step for changing the battery yourself. I tried it, and it is MUCH easier to disable the HV than to get it re-engaged. You just pull a tab up. There is a trick to it, you can't just push it down, you also have to push (tilt) it or pry the casing to just the right angle for it to re-engage. It took me hours to get that to re-engage (standing out in the rain in a parking lot) trying different prying points and angles and just pushing harder. Once it closed, I didn't open it again to figure out exactly where to press to close it easily. The videos I saw showed it opening, but did not show it being closed. DO NOT DISENGAGE THE HV SYSTEM UNLESS YOU KNOW HOW TO RE-ENGAGE IT FIRST. Make sure you watch the video, listen to the description and review multiple videos or writeups on this before you try it. Have them queued up on you phone before you go out to the car so you can review them while trying it. I am sure it is easy once you know exactly how to release the catch, but if you are working in limited light on a cold rainy day in a parking lot, you may end up getting frustrated enough to damage the switch, your car, or yourself.

I didn't replace the battery myself because I was 320 miles from home staying in a hotel on a business trip, and could not locate anywhere but a dealer that had a battery. They sold the one they had before I got there the day I brought it in and had to give me a loaner for a couple days until they could replace it.

All the writeups mention pre-charging the battery to 100% before installing. That is not necessary. The dealer took a battery out of a box, installed it, and started my car and left it "running" in the parking lot so it would charge itself. Basically put the car in park, press start without your foot on the brake, turn off lights, radio, etc. and it will sit there with the DC-DC operating which charges your battery. I have done that while charging so I could listen to the radio while waiting 2 hours for a free level 2 charger to put charge on my car before. You may have to come back and re-start it as it times out eventually. The dealer left my car parked outside like that long enough for a whole lot of condensation to form on the inside of the windshield.

There are also videos on using the 12V system of an i3 with a 1200W inverter (roughly equivalent to one 110V 10A outlet) to run some AC essentials in case of a power outage, and they use this trick to keep the DC-DC going. Don't do this from the driver seat, as soon as you unbuckle the seat belt and open the door the car will stop. Lean across from the passenger side to press start so the door stays closed. You might also need to plug in the driver's seat belt.
 
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A few months ago, I changed the original (february) 2014 battery. Just in time.... pfew
Impressive! Are you in a mild/warm climate?
My 12V battery on a 2017 i3 REX died in the parking lot at work after being parked for 10 hours (we work 4 X 10hr day shifts). I had gotten a warning message over the weekend with the car plugged into a 10A 110V level I charger all weekend. It was saying something about excessive discharge, but wasn't specific about which battery. It meant that the 12V battery level was decreasing while parked. Once you see that, replace your battery that very day... or else.

I had to jump start the car to get the electronics to power up. Once they came up, I had one trip until it went dead again, so I called a local dealer, and drove directly there once boosted. They had me park it in the lineup to the garage, and shut it down. They had to boost it again to move it to another location, and again to put it where they were going to work on it.

If your battery is VERY dead, even using a 12V pack to jump it may not be enough. You may have to also disconnect one of the regular battery terminals and keep it from shorting out. VERY dead batteries draw a lot of current and do not charge up to 12V.

Jump starting for me involved taking out the frunk and getting to the battery terminals in the front. I left it out when driving to the dealer, and let them put it back, as it has to come out to replace the battery anyway. Don't lose the screws. I put mine back into the holes they were in (finger tight only) after removing the frunk so I wouldn't mix them up or lose them.

The terminals in the back are easier to get to normally, but smaller and closer together, and under all the stuff I had in the hatch area. In either case, you are better off using a booster pack that has smaller size alligator clips than the standard size used on normal cars. There is very limited space if you try to get to the terminals in the front, so clips that are no more than 3 inches on a side are better, and small hands. In the back you need small light clips so they don't touch each other or anything else because the terminals are close together.

You do not need to disable the HV battery to bump an i3, in fact, you cannot bump an i3 without the HV system active. The DC-DC runs off the high voltage system to produce the aux power and recharge the battery. If the HV system is disabled it won't come on, and as soon as you disconnect the jump start pack, the car will die again. I don't think you can bump an i3 by plugging into the 12V cigarette lighter ports like you can on ICE cars. Those are powered by the DC-DC converter, and not reversible as far as I understand. It is too bad, that would be a quick, simple, and safe way to bump the car if it worked.

I mention the HV disconnect only because it was listed as a necessary safety step for changing the battery yourself. I tried it, and it is MUCH easier to disable the HV than to get it re-engaged. You just pull a tab up. There is a trick to it, you can't just push it down, you also have to push (tilt) it or pry the casing to just the right angle for it to re-engage. It took me hours to get that to re-engage (standing out in the rain in a parking lot) trying different prying points and angles and just pushing harder. Once it closed, I didn't open it again to figure out exactly where to press to close it easily. The videos I saw showed it opening, but did not show it being closed. DO NOT DISENGAGE THE HV SYSTEM UNLESS YOU KNOW HOW TO RE-ENGAGE IT FIRST. Make sure you watch the video, listen to the description and review multiple videos or writeups on this before you try it. Have them queued up on you phone before you go out to the car so you can review them while trying it. I am sure it is easy once you know exactly how to release the catch, but if you are working in limited light on a cold rainy day in a parking lot, you may end up getting frustrated enough to damage the switch, your car, or yourself.

I didn't replace the battery myself because I was 320 miles from home staying in a hotel on a business trip, and could not locate anywhere but a dealer that had a battery. They sold the one they had before I got there the day I brought it in and had to give me a loaner for a couple days until they could replace it.

The all the writeups mention pre-charging the battery to 100% before installing. That is not necessary. The dealer took a battery out of a box, installed it, and started my car and left it "running" in the parking lot so it would charge itself. Basically put the car in park, press start without your foot on the brake, turn off lights, radio, etc. and it will sit there with the DC-DC operating which charges your battery. I have done that while charging so I could listen to the radio while waiting 2 hours for a free level 2 charger to put charge on my car before. You may have to come back and re-start it as it times out eventually. The dealer left my car parked outside like that long enough for a whole lot of condensation to form on the inside of the windshield.

There are also videos on using the 12V system of an i3 with a 1200W inverter (roughly equivalent to one 110V 10A outlet) to run some AC essentials in case of a power outage, and they use this trick to keep the DC-DC going. Don't do this from the driver seat, as soon as you unbuckle the seat belt and open the door the car will stop. Lean across from the passenger side to press start so the door stays closed. You might also need to plug in the driver's seat belt.
Interesting thoughts. Considering all the complications this just underlines (to me) replacing my 12V battery every few years, before they ever show any issues. And: I don’t recall the HV disconnect being particularly hard to disengage/re-engage. I think that BMW did change the mechanism once (mine is a 2017), so it may be different for different vintages of i3-s? I definitely would stress disconnecting the HV system before performing any work on the car, regardless. This isn’t like getting zapped by a 110 or 220V AC outlet. 360V DC will almost certainly be deadly.
 
The all the writeups mention pre-charging the battery to 100% before installing. That is not necessary. The dealer took a battery out of a box, installed it, and started my car and left it "running" in the parking lot so it would charge itself.
I recall there have been owners who have received "flat" 12 volts that wouldn't start the car.

Under ICE this was definitely bad practice to charge a dead battery by idling the car – bad for the leaving the engine running, bad for the load placed on the alternator, bad for the excessive rate of charge the battery received.

With the i3, two of those concerns are gone, but I'm curious what rate the flat 12 volt is charged at, and whether it's detrimental.
 
I recall there have been owners who have received "flat" 12 volts that wouldn't start the car.

Under ICE this was definitely bad practice to charge a dead battery by idling the car – bad for the leaving the engine running, bad for the load placed on the alternator, bad for the excessive rate of charge the battery received.

With the i3, two of those concerns are gone, but I'm curious what rate the flat 12 volt is charged at, and whether it's detrimental.
I don't know if this is a new thing, an international thing, an EV-specific battery thing, or a regional thing, but I've never bought a new battery that couldn't be dropped into a car and immediately turn over the engine. That woulda sucked too, because almost every replacement was a result of a (second) jump start and a drive directly to O'Reilly or Autozone or -- in the really old days -- good old Western Auto in what was (in my recollection) always bad weather.

It's definitely not a welcome development, but first world problem,I guess, waiting around while dealer charges up a battery.
 
I'm curious what rate the flat 12 volt is charged at
There are guidelines for charging an AGM battery expressed in a C-rate. Given the small size and the max. power c.q. amps the DC converter can deliver, the C-rate will be too high for a flat battery. Unless there is some smart algorithm that limits the charging amps to the battery.
 
Where did you get the 12V LFP battery from, or the model number? Thanks.
Yes, 2017 owner here (in extreme climate - hot/cold - Colorado). I replace mine profilactically ever 3 years. Remy Battery order online. What is the LFP one you use? Exact same physical size? I assume it doesn’t need the vent connection?
I hesitate to recommend my LFP 12V battery because LFP batteries don't charge or discharge well when cold (can't recall which). I live in the tropics, so that's not a problem for me. The manufacturer of my LFP battery claims that its LFP automotive batteries include automatic battery cell heaters that overcome the cold weather problem, but I cannot verify that this works well.

Also, like most (all?) lithium chemistries, LFP battery cells degrade more rapidly at a full charge with an average charge level of 50% recommended for the lowest degradation rate. LFP battery cells differ from other lithium chemistries in that it is not so harmful to charge them fully, so no high charge level unusable buffer is needed. A problem with using a LFP battery in an i3 and probably in most vehicles is that its charge level remains almost always at or near 100%, so this would shorten its useful lifetime.

I agreed to test a LFP battery in an i3 for its manufacturer. I had assumed that they would offer a LFP battery for an i3, but that hasn't happened. The LFP battery designed for a Rivian truck is the same physical size and has a capacity at least as high as the OEM AGM battery. However, it needs screw-on SAE battery posts to work with an i3. The OEM screw-on posts don't fit and would require a lot of modification to fit. The SAE posts that the manufacturer sent to me are too large to fit into the recess in the battery case surrounding the terminals, so they require some grinding to fit snugly. Brass washers must be installed between the posts and the terminals to provide good electrical contact.

One of the nice features of this manufacturer's LFP batteries is that it includes a Bluetooth radio that communicates with a smartphone app that displays all sorts of data about the state of the battery as well as supporting enabling/disabling charging or discharging. So I am currently testing disabling charging until the battery's charge level decreases to ~40% which corresponds to an output voltage of ~13.1V. Its full-charge voltage is ~0.5V higher than an AGM battery and its voltage doesn't decrease as rapidly as its charge level decreases compared with an AGM battery, so it should work well in an i3 within a 40% to 60% charge level range. It should occasionally be charged to 100% so that cell balancing can occur (it contains 4 cells). The manufacturer told me that he could program the battery to automatically enable and disable charging to keep it within a suitable charge level range if my managing its charge level manually works well.

If this manufacturer decides to offer a plug-and-play battery for an i3, I'll post information about it. As it is now, the Rivian LFP battery plus screw-on SAE posts is more than twice the cost of the Remy AGM battery with no guarantee that it would last any longer.
 
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