Gig worker looking for his futuristic hatchback

[Instacar7er]

I don’t live in sf where they have those crazy hills. It’s fairly flat and not so many pot holes. Oh and I was wondering how loud is that motor? Some say it sounds like a motorcycle idling as it literally is a motorcycle motor.

 

[Instacar7er]

Wow I wonder how much a charging station is going to cost me or can I do it myself? I’m an electrician and I know I can add a new circuit breaker. Def gonna YouTube the large component to see how that is installed.

You could install a 240 V 40 (hardwired) or 50 A (NEMA 14-10R) circuit for the electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE). However, you'd need to buy an EVSE which is a smart switch that protects its user from electrocution and communicates with the EV's on-board charger to supply the requested current. If you avoid bells and whistles like WiFi connectivity, smartphone app integration, etc., a basic AC Level 2 EVSE can be purchased for as little as $300. The EVSE included with every i3 is an AC Level 1 EVSE (120 V 10 A) (a few i3's have optional dual-voltage EVSE's).

I would not go cheap on safety. Def will have some smart protection and notification.

 

[websterize]

It's not Scandinavia, but California currently has among the highest concentrations of DC fast chargers in the contiguous United States. See plugshare.com for more details. (The i3 uses a CCS charging connector, and its maximum rate is 50 kW.)

I'm driving my BEV about 700 miles out and back over a long Memorial Day weekend. The DC count on my flight plan pales in comparison.

 

[Instacar7er]

It's not Scandinavia, but California currently has among the highest concentrations of DC fast chargers in the contiguous United States. See plugshare.com for more details. (The i3 uses a CCS charging connector, and its maximum rate is 50 kW.)

I'm driving my BEV about 700 miles out and back over a long Memorial Day weekend. The DC count on my flight plan pales in comparison.

I’m not going out of town say 40 miles out and above. The farthest would be 25 miles and that’s super rare. I’m often driving around town in a 15 mile radius. My intentions are to ride my daily routes on one charge and with the extension just in case I find myself going over that 150 mile range. I will definitely check if a fast charger is in town. I def would like to keep it at just Bev.

 

[frictioncircle]

Since we got into the subject of using larger voltage of power. Can anyone give me a rough estimate of the difference one would have to spend with their power bill after they got an EV? I understand certain regions are different, but percentage wise. What’s the percentage difference?

Howdy Instacar7er, and welcome to the board!

If you're in Central California I would guess that your electric service is with PG&E. I don't know what PG&E's rate plans are like but you should take a look to see what metering plans they offer for EV owners.

At the very least they should offer a time-of-use (TOU) plan which should price your electricity usage by time of day. The most expensive will likely be weekdays 4p-9p.

Your i3 does have the ability to to charge based on time of day, but it requires you to set a departure time.

I've found it easier to buy an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment, what we think of as our home "charger") with a built-in clock that lets you program when your vehicle to charge.

 

[frictioncircle]

Wow I wonder how much a charging station is going to cost me or can I do it myself? I’m an electrician and I know I can add a new circuit breaker. Def gonna YouTube the large component to see how that is installed.

Hello again Instacar7er –

If you're an electrician then you might want to take a look at OpenEVSE:

https://www.openevse.com

 

[3pete]

I’m not going out of town say 40 miles out and above. The farthest would be 25 miles and that’s super rare. I’m often driving around town in a 15 mile radius. My intentions are to ride my daily routes on one charge and with the extension just in case I find myself going over that 150 mile range. I will definitely check if a fast charger is in town. I def would like to keep it at just Bev.

With this driving style and your location, I would think you could get by with the BEV, assuming:
1) You can charge to full overnight (an L2 EVSE would be needed for that).
2) On the rare case you need more range in a day, you are comfortable stopping at a DC fast charger in town for 15-30 minutes. I'm assuming you stop driving to eat lunch/ take a break at some point anyway so maybe there's a DCFC in a convenient location for that and it won't feel like it's out of the way. On Plugshare, I'd advise filtering to CCS plug only and plugshare score >7 to see which ones look reliable and convenient. Be sure to read some reviews to see if there are other hassles to be aware of.

I hate to talk anyone out of an i3 but IF you're trying to stay EV only and are considering other options, the Chevy Bolt seems like it would fit your use case perfectly. It's not an i3 but most accounts consider it to be a surprisingly good car with possibly uncomfortable front seats. 0-60 times are also quite similar (I think Bolt is actually quicker) but other driving dynamics are definitely in BMW's favor, including RWD and turning circle. The range is undeniably in the Bolt's favor though. Even a 200+ mile day in non-expressway driving in central CA should be no worry. The Bolt isn't anywhere near as cool or futuristic as the i3 though.

 

[Instacar7er]

I’m not going out of town say 40 miles out and above. The farthest would be 25 miles and that’s super rare. I’m often driving around town in a 15 mile radius. My intentions are to ride my daily routes on one charge and with the extension just in case I find myself going over that 150 mile range. I will definitely check if a fast charger is in town. I def would like to keep it at just Bev.

With this driving style and your location, I would think you could get by with the BEV, assuming:
1) You can charge to full overnight (an L2 EVSE would be needed for that).
2) On the rare case you need more range in a day, you are comfortable stopping at a DC fast charger in town for 15-30 minutes. I'm assuming you stop driving to eat lunch/ take a break at some point anyway so maybe there's a DCFC in a convenient location for that and it won't feel like it's out of the way. On Plugshare, I'd advise filtering to CCS plug only and plugshare score >7 to see which ones look reliable and convenient. Be sure to read some reviews to see if there are other hassles to be aware of.

I hate to talk anyone out of an i3 but IF you're trying to stay EV only and are considering other options, the Chevy Bolt seems like it would fit your use case perfectly. It's not an i3 but most accounts consider it to be a surprisingly good car with possibly uncomfortable front seats. 0-60 times are also quite similar (I think Bolt is actually quicker) but other driving dynamics are definitely in BMW's favor, including RWD and turning circle. The range is undeniably in the Bolt's favor though. Even a 200+ mile day in non-expressway driving in central CA should be no worry. The Bolt isn't anywhere near as cool or futuristic as the i3 though.

Muchly appreciate the response. Turns I can’t have home charging so I will rely on a station. All these acronyms of what to use. I’m sorry I haven’t a clue what is what. I want to charge it and park at home. Guess I’ll have to figure out what is the fastest way to charge it.

 

[alohart]

If you're an electrician then you might want to take a look at OpenEVSE:

https://www.openevse.com

In 2013, I bought and assembled a JuiceBox 60A AC Level 2 EVSE kit that has never failed and continues to work well a decade later. I considered an OpenEVSE kit at that time as well but don't recall why I chose JuiceBox instead.

It appears that the only OpenEVSE kit for sale now is their advanced kit with WiFi and other features that increase its price to $529 which seems quite expensive for an EVSE that isn't UL certified. My EVSE is in our apartment parking garage where WiFi isn't available, so there's still a market for a basic EVSE. Maybe one could buy individual OpenEVSE parts to build a basic EVSE, but its price would still be pretty high relative to assembled EVSE's, many of which are designed and assembled in China. I've not read of any dangerous low-quality Chinese EVSE's causing damage, so maybe they're good enough.

 

[frictioncircle]

It appears that the only OpenEVSE kit for sale now is their advanced kit with WiFi and other features that increase its price to $529 which seems quite expensive for an EVSE that isn't UL certified.

In 2014 I also looked at the JuiceBox but went with OpenEVSE because there was talk of putting a small VGA full-color display on the front panel (they even sent me the actual display panel).

The display never got developed but OpenEVSE's product was a really good value at the time with an all-in kit price in the high $300s which included a two-line LCD and real-time clock for setting up charging. Buying a Clipper Creek or Bosch (neither had displays nor clocks) could cost $500-$600.

Now their full kit with AC inlet cord and J1772 cord is in the high $400s, so like everything else, OpenEVSE costs more.

Out of curiosity I just checked the pricing of Clipper Creek units.

https://enphase.com/store/ev-chargers/commercial-ev-chargers/hcs-40-ev-charger

$732 for 32A? That's terrible.

Costco has a 40A JuiceBox with wireless control for $599:
https://www.costco.com/juicebox-40-...with-nema,-20-ft-cable.product.100574926.html

 

[Instacar7er]

It appears that the only OpenEVSE kit for sale now is their advanced kit with WiFi and other features that increase its price to $529 which seems quite expensive for an EVSE that isn't UL certified.

In 2014 I also looked at the JuiceBox but went with OpenEVSE because there was talk of putting a small VGA full-color display on the front panel (they even sent me the actual display panel).

The display never got developed but OpenEVSE's product was a really good value at the time with an all-in kit price in the high $300s which included a two-line LCD and real-time clock for setting up charging. Buying a Clipper Creek or Bosch (neither had displays nor clocks) could cost $500-$600.

Now their full kit with AC inlet cord and J1772 cord is in the high $400s, so like everything else, OpenEVSE costs more.

Out of curiosity I just checked the pricing of Clipper Creek units.

https://enphase.com/store/ev-chargers/commercial-ev-chargers/hcs-40-ev-charger

$732 for 32A? That's terrible.

Costco has a 40A JuiceBox with wireless control for $599:
https://www.costco.com/juicebox-40-...with-nema,-20-ft-cable.product.100574926.html

Nice to know… thank you!

 

[alohart]

In 2014 I also looked at the JuiceBox but went with OpenEVSE because there was talk of putting a small VGA full-color display on the front panel (they even sent me the actual display panel).

The display never got developed but OpenEVSE's product was a really good value at the time with an all-in kit price in the high $300s which included a two-line LCD and real-time clock for setting up charging. Buying a Clipper Creek or Bosch (neither had displays nor clocks) could cost $500-$600.

I paid ~$340 for my JuiceBox kit. Then I pimped it out with a slide-out mounting bracket, a FTDI programming cable, 4-button Wireless remote which I can used to change the maximum amperage in 1 A increments, start and stop charging, and a few other things, a 13-line u144 color LCD, a current sensor, and a J1772 plug holder. I got the C source code as well and have added functionality which I have enjoyed. All of this increased my cost to $463 plus $62 shipping to Honolulu. So I paid a lot more than I recalled.

 

[websterize]

I’m not going out of town say 40 miles out and above. The farthest would be 25 miles and that’s super rare. I’m often driving around town in a 15 mile radius. ...

What's your average speed for a delivery workday? If it's under 40 mph, energy consumption would likely be about >5 mi/kWh in moderate weather (70º F to 80ºF is an optimum air temperature for the i3's traction battery). On 2019+ models, the 42 kWh battery has an available capacity of about 39 kWh, yielding a maximum mile range of 195 = 39 x 5. Driven conservatively in that temperate weather, the range could be even higher. Unlike internal combustion engines, low-speed, stop-and-go driving is ideal for a non-REx.

 

[Instacar7er]

I’m not going out of town say 40 miles out and above. The farthest would be 25 miles and that’s super rare. I’m often driving around town in a 15 mile radius. ...

What's your average speed for a delivery workday? If it's under 40 mph, energy consumption would likely be about >5 mi/kWh in moderate weather (70º F to 80ºF is an optimum air temperature for the i3's traction battery). On 2019+ models, the 42 kWh battery has an available capacity of about 39 kWh, yielding a maximum mile range of 195 = 39 x 5. Driven conservatively in that temperate weather, the range could be even higher. Unlike internal combustion engines, low-speed, stop-and-go driving is ideal for a non-REx.

I pretty much drive 45-50lbs on average and freeway at 75mph which a quarter of the day I usually have orders cross town. Again total out 140-150 total for the day of driving.

 

[3pete]

Turns I can’t have home charging so I will rely on a station.

Does this statement mean you are planning to recharge the car 100% of the time at a public station?

If so, owning an i3 is probably going to be less convenient than a gas car. How much inconvenience are you willing to put up with to go electric?

 

[alohart]

Turns I can’t have home charging so I will rely on a station.

Does this statement mean you are planning to recharge the car 100% of the time at a public station?

If so, owning an i3 is probably going to be less convenient than a gas car. How much inconvenience are you willing to put up with to go electric?

I could not charge the first EV we bought in 2012 where we parked at night, so I relied on public charging stations for a year. That was back when many public charging stations were free and almost always available due to not so many EV's on the road. I would drive 5 minutes to the closest public AC Level 2 charging station at a shopping center in the evening when the shopping center wasn't busy, plug in, and walk 15 minutes home to wait. After a couple of hours, I'd walk 15 minutes back to the shopping center, unplug, and drive 5 minutes home. I didn't drive very much, so a couple of hours of daily AC Level 2 charging was sufficient. This became very tiring.

We bought a condo where we could install an AC Level 2 EVSE where we parked. This is so much more convenient. I'm not sure that I would own another EV if I could not charge at home where I park, especially these days when public charging stations are much more popular and expensive compared with residential electricity rates.

Driving as much as you do, instacar7er, you'd almost certainly need to charge daily at a DC fast charger (~200 miles/hour charging speed up to ~90% charge level, considerably slower from 90% to 100%). There aren't as many of these compared with public AC Level 2 charging stations (~28 miles/hour charging speed to ~90% charge level, somewhat slower from 90% to 100%). Because of how far you drive each day, you'd need to charge to 100% to be safe. At a DC fast charger, that would take over an hour. On an AC Level 2 charging station, that would take over 6 hours which might not be possible except overnight at home.

I suppose an option would be to buy an i3 REx and drive on gasoline when you are unable to fully charge. However, the REx engine is designed for occasionally rather than routine operation. Some REx owners drive frequently with the REx engine running. This causes problems for some of these engines, but others seem to be mostly trouble free.

 

[Instacar7er]

Turns I can’t have home charging so I will rely on a station.

Does this statement mean you are planning to recharge the car 100% of the time at a public station?

If so, owning an i3 is probably going to be less convenient than a gas car. How much inconvenience are you willing to put up with to go electric?

I could not charge the first EV we bought in 2012 where we parked at night, so I relied on public charging stations for a year. That was back when many public charging stations were free and almost always available due to not so many EV's on the road. I would drive 5 minutes to the closest public AC Level 2 charging station at a shopping center in the evening when the shopping center wasn't busy, plug in, and walk 15 minutes home to wait. After a couple of hours, I'd walk 15 minutes back to the shopping center, unplug, and drive 5 minutes home. I didn't drive very much, so a couple of hours of daily AC Level 2 charging was sufficient. This became very tiring.

We bought a condo where we could install an AC Level 2 EVSE where we parked. This is so much more convenient. I'm not sure that I would own another EV if I could not charge at home where I park, especially these days when public charging stations are much more popular and expensive compared with residential electricity rates.

Driving as much as you do, instacar7er, you'd almost certainly need to charge daily at a DC fast charger (~200 miles/hour charging speed up to ~90% charge level, considerably slower from 90% to 100%). There aren't as many of these compared with public AC Level 2 charging stations (~28 miles/hour charging speed to ~90% charge level, somewhat slower from 90% to 100%). Because of how far you drive each day, you'd need to charge to 100% to be safe. At a DC fast charger, that would take over an hour. On an AC Level 2 charging station, that would take over 6 hours which might not be possible except overnight at home.

I suppose an option would be to buy an i3 REx and drive on gasoline when you are unable to fully charge. However, the REx engine is designed for occasionally rather than routine operation. Some REx owners drive frequently with the REx engine running. This causes problems for some of these engines, but others seem to be mostly trouble free.

I def will have a Rex and yes I will charge most of the time in public but will have it charge at home with 120v regular outlet. From 10-8am I should get at 40 miles just charging at home, right? I recall regular home charging is 5miles per hour.

 

[alohart]

I def will have a Rex and yes I will charge most of the time in public but will have it charge at home with 120v regular outlet. From 10-8am I should get at 40 miles just charging at home, right? I recall regular home charging is 5miles per hour.

If you have a clothes dryer outlet close to where you would park, it would support an AC Level 2 EVSE set to a maximum current of 24 A, or 5.7 kW, which is 80% of the maximum charging power supported by the i3's on-board chargers. Otherwise, charging with the i3's AC Level 1 EVSE, the maximum current would be 10 A, or 1.2 kW. If you average a driving efficiency of 4 mi/kWh (should be easy to do), 1.2 kW x 4 mi/kWh would be a charging speed of 4.8 mph. The charging power would be ~15% lower due to charging losses because the high-voltage system remains on while charging and consumes some power.

 

[eNate]

...Otherwise, charging with the i3's AC Level 1 EVSE, the maximum current would be 10 A, or 1.2 kW...

Ah alternative being an aftermarket 16 amp 120 volt EVSE.

For less than $200 for the unit, I replenish 30% of my battery while plugged in at work for 8 hours,

In your case Instacar7er, that equates to better than 60 miles of range over 10 hours of overnight charging.

 

[Instacar7er]

I def will have a Rex and yes I will charge most of the time in public but will have it charge at home with 120v regular outlet. From 10-8am I should get at 40 miles just charging at home, right? I recall regular home charging is 5miles per hour.

If you have a clothes dryer outlet close to where you would park, it would support an AC Level 2 EVSE set to a maximum current of 24 A, or 5.7 kW, which is 80% of the maximum charging power supported by the i3's on-board chargers. Otherwise, charging with the i3's AC Level 1 EVSE, the maximum current would be 10 A, or 1.2 kW. If you average a driving efficiency of 4 mi/kWh (should be easy to do), 1.2 kW x 4 mi/kWh would be a charging speed of 4.8 mph. The charging power would be ~15% lower due to charging losses because the high-voltage system remains on while charging and consumes some power.

I do have a washer and dryer in the garage but my brother and his wife parks their car in it. How long are those cords? I park in front of the drive way and we have a slot perfect for a 2 inch cord to go through it on the side.