Class action lawsuit on battery reserve

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

The same day I selected my used BMW i3-REx, this article was posted:
http://insideevs.com/class-action-lawsuit-filed-bmw-unsafe-i3-rex-reduced-power-operation/

Now I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but I am thankful for the 'heads up' given in this forum. I've already bought the 'dvinmortion' patch and have it loaded on a flash drive. So I feel confident that I won't have any problems on driving back to Huntsville.

As for the lawsuit, I'll follow it but not sure I have anything to contribute. You' all have more expertise with the BMW i3-REx that I have yet to even test drive. My test drive is from Charlotte NC to Huntsville AL.

2016/05/23 Update

Apparently Consumer Reports had something: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/10/bmw-i3-has-the-little-engine-that-could/index.htm

Further tests revealed that after a prolonged use of the throttle with little or no speed varying and no gentle braking to regenerate energy to the battery, acceleration ability falls off dramatically. In that state, we measured a 0-60 mph acceleration time that ranged from 27 to 40 seconds—as opposed to 9 seconds in normal range extending mode. For the record, when the car is running purely on electric power it sprints to 60 mph in 7.5 seconds.

BMW bills the i3 as a car suited for a mega metropolis and as such, with frequent speed variation, it is unlikely to wind up in a situation like this. But it would be nice to get a warning light regarding the reduced power, as one gets in the Tesla Model S and Toyota Prius.

Asked for a response, a BMW spokesman, Matthew Russell, said that an enhancement is coming in spring 2015 that will address our concern. It will include a battery state-of-charge indicator, an early alert prior to potentially experiencing a temporary loss of power, and a proactive boosting of the battery level based on the car’s navigation prior to encountering hilly terrain. This enhancement will also be available as a retrofit for existing i3 owners.

Also found this reference to the case in a legal forum: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/335769-bmw-class-action-says-range-extender-causes-big-power-loss/

Tsoar is represented by Jonathan A. Michaels, Kathryn J. Harvey, and Kristen R. Rodriguez of MLG Automotive Law APLC.

The BMW Power Loss Class Action Lawsuit is Edo Tsoar v. BMW of North America LLC, Case No. 2:16-cv-03386, in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.

Bob Wilson

 

[Sparky17]

I read about this. In fact I came to check out the forum because I expected it to be abuzz with discussions about this.

Well, here's my take on it. BMW sold their soul to the devil (California) for money in the form of a more advantageous classification for the i3. The deal was, they had to emasculate the REX functionality that was designed into the car, and is standard in Europe. Now, someone has pointed out, by suing BMW, that their kluge is not only inconvenient to owners of this vehicle, but downright dangerous under certain circumstances. Personally, I would like to see BMW have to pay dearly for their careless disregard for owners of their product.

The i3 with range extender, with the functionality that it's supposed to have, makes the vehicle much more usable. You can choose when to maintain your current state of charge, as long as it's under 76%. Thus you can keep a substantial battery range in reserve. Contrary to California's stupid classification system, this does not make the i3 a hybrid. We own hybrids, and have owned 4 of them over a period of 12 years (2004 to present). The i3 REX is no hybrid.

Apart from the safety issue of the US i3 REX as sold, there is the issue of gasohol. In it's stock USA configuration the REX is really only an emergency backup. Most people won't run it much. If the gasohol in the tank is not replaced every few months, it is liable to gum up the entire fuel system, same as with any small engine. With the USA configuration, there's no way to run the fuel through the engine and replace it. I'm pretty sure that after a while we're going to start hearing of cases where the REX was needed in an emergency low SOC situation, and it isn't going to work. Yes, I know that the engine will run for a few minutes every 6 weeks, but that's not going to drain the tank any time soon. You really need to be able to control the REX as it was designed to be controlled.

My hope is that BMW will be forced into removing the block on the Range Extender menu option, which is there on USA cars but locked out, I assume by a setting in the configuration file. Then we won't have to pay some aftermarket outfit for a reflash file to make the thing work properly.

 

[PluviaPlumbum]

Even if BMW had chosen to give the Carb classification a miss and set up the car as the rest of the world gets it, it is still a possibility for negligent owners too stupid or idle to read the manual that came with the car to get into the same situation that a minority of owners may have experienced. i.e reduced power on long inclines after battery depletion.

As I understand it the car does not stop moving, but rather slows to what some people feel is an unsafe speed, while other traffic is overtaking at higher speeds. Inadvisable (perhaps) , Illegal (No). None of this has resulted in a single accident or fatality as far as I am aware. Therefore, I would hope that even the ridiculous US Adversarial legal system might find there is little in the way of a case to answer.

If owners make an ill considered purchase that doesn't meet their requirements then they have only themselves to blame. Still that won't stop your well paid lawyer from trying it on regardless.

What I find less logical is why BMW does not allow an unlocked version in US States that do not require CARB regulation ?

 

[Sparky17]

Even if BMW had chosen to give the Carb classification a miss and set up the car as the rest of the world gets it, it is still a possibility for negligent owners too stupid or idle to read the manual that came with the car to get into the same situation that a minority of owners may have experienced. i.e reduced power on long inclines after battery depletion.

As I understand it the car does not stop moving, but rather slows to what some people feel is an unsafe speed, while other traffic is overtaking at higher speeds. Inadvisable (perhaps) , Illegal (No). None of this has resulted in a single accident or fatality as far as I am aware. Therefore, I would hope that even the ridiculous US Adversarial legal system might find there is little in the way of a case to answer.

If owners make an ill considered purchase that doesn't meet their requirements then they have only themselves to blame. Still that won't stop your well paid lawyer from trying it on regardless.

What I find less logical is why BMW does not allow an unlocked version in US States that do not require CARB regulation ?

I suppose we'll see. I think BMW took a really good and innovative design and turned it into something that can't even be maintained properly given the lousy fuel that's available in most places in the USA. And there have been accounts here on this forum of people getting into trouble with the stock USA range extender setup without being stupid at all. Actually, your attitude is exactly the way BMW has been treating its customers for decades: trying to shift the blame for bad design onto the customer. We BMW motorcycle owners have had to deal with this on more than one issue.

I'm rooting for the plaintiffs. It's way past time for someone to hold BMW accountable for their arrogance.

Mind you I, we actually, love our i3 REX. I just resent having to buy a hack to make it properly functional.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The issue, should you care, also applies to the BEV...run the battery down far enough and it will dramatically slow down. The real point is: the REx CANNOT maintain the charge under some circumstances. If you encounter those, regardless of when you turn on the REx, you will experience the same problem if you persist on stressing the system. Only being able to start it up at 6% leaves you with a smaller buffer, but if you are not climbing mountains or you keep your speed at or near the speed limits most places in the USA, you may never experience the problem.

 

[Sparky17]

The issue, should you care, also applies to the BEV...run the battery down far enough and it will dramatically slow down. The real point is: the REx CANNOT maintain the charge under some circumstances. If you encounter those, regardless of when you turn on the REx, you will experience the same problem if you persist on stressing the system. Only being able to start it up at 6% leaves you with a smaller buffer, but if you are not climbing mountains or you keep your speed at or near the speed limits most places in the USA, you may never experience the problem.

Exactly! If you know you're going to have to climb a steep hill at speed, with the European setup (the correct setup), you can turn the REX on at 75% SOC. You will then never encounter a problem. You can refuel as needed. So, even if you lose 20% of your charge, you still have 55% left. And you'll probably get a bunch of that charge back going down the other side. With the USA setup, you'll be lucky to get to the top safely unless you had a good amount of charge left when you started up.

And it isn't just hills. The REX will not maintain SOC at 65 mph or more with the heater on in Winter in NH, for example. So, if I want to go 60 miles one way in Winter, for example, I turn the REX on, again, at 75% SOC. I will get there with a somewhat depleted charge and need to refuel. But I won't have a problem.

And the elephant in the room in both cases is that, once I am done with high battery drain driving, chances are I will be going at slower speeds on surface roads for a while. The REX will then attempt to build the charge back up to 75%, and will probably make significant progress in doing so. This will make the return trip more assured without having to find a charging station, of which there are few in NH. You cannot count on finding one anywhere near your destination here - not like California.

It's a real issue in New England. We have lots of substantial hills on our highways, and cold Winters. If you want to use the car to get from here to there, the proper REX setup can and will make the difference between making that practical and safe as opposed to impractical and unsafe.

Yes, I know. You can argue that people who want to use the i3 for anything other than city driving should buy something else, or be informed about its limitations before they buy/lease yada yada yada. You can look at it that way if you want. I still say that BMW did something sleazy, which is not a new practice for them, and I'd love to see them have their feet held to the fire for it. It just might improve their respect and attitude toward their USA customer base, which could use some work, believe me.

By emasculating the REX system in the USA, BMW did a HUGE disservice to its customers. And the really pathetic thing is that none of the dealers I've spoken to, sales folk or service techs, even know about the European setup. The dealership from which I leased our i3 REX has an employee whose job title is "Genius". He's the one that's supposed to know technical things when no one else does. Even he knew nothing about the proper function of the REX when I spoke to him.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The system gives you plenty of warnings, and is akin to ignoring the fuel gauge on an ICE, and then trying to sue the manufacturer because the car ran out of fuel. The REx never was intended to run the i3 under all conditions at all power draws. Yes, if you are aware, you can manage things to limit or prevent the issues presented, but that takes someone that cares and understands how the car works. The same issue can occur with the BEV, and will on the REx, if you used all of the fuel, and it reverts to limp mode...once your battery gets low, nothing can keep you going at full tilt, and REx or not, you can get to that situation on either vehicle...you can go further with the REx before that happens, and may never notice it, but it is always looming in the background as a possibility. Not a big deal, if you understand how things work...you can compensate for the issue. Hit your thumb with a hammer then complain that the hammer is hard...

 

[ericblz]

Just got a letter that they want to do a system update on my car, has anyone gone in recently? I'm concerned that they're going to force the REx to turn on at 15% or something ridiculous to prevent a low battery / power reduction situation.

Not that I would ever do it but it's a simple matter to turn on the REx on demand option with a bit of coding. PM me and I can point you to the guy who does it for my friend. From what I understand it shouldn't do anything to your warranty since it is simply a configuration change that doen't affect the core functionality of the car.

 

[michaelbmw]

I read about this. In fact I came to check out the forum because I expected it to be abuzz with discussions about this.

Well, here's my take on it. BMW sold their soul to the devil (California) for money in the form of a more advantageous classification for the i3. The deal was, they had to emasculate the REX functionality that was designed into the car, and is standard in Europe. Now, someone has pointed out, by suing BMW, that their kluge is not only inconvenient to owners of this vehicle, but downright dangerous under certain circumstances. Personally, I would like to see BMW have to pay dearly for their careless disregard for owners of their product.

I don't think it fair to say that they sold their souls to the devil. I think it's more correct that they whored themselves out

 

[Jerrybmwrex]

Either way BMW will be required to unlock the features it took away from the early Rex models because safety disasters are looming. They are fully aware of the safety disaster they have created and continue to do nothing. The most sensible option is to upgrade the battery pack of the older models to at least match the 2017 models higher battery pack, this allowing the cars to be safe AND CARB compliant just as the current models are.

 

[i3Houston]

I always knew that Rex kicks in at 6% but the first time i underestimated how quickly battery will discharge to 2% and car will slow down(not without the warning though) It was not fun at all! Since then I installed bimmerCode to unlock the Rex.

Besides, the i3 is the only car that is compatible with newer higher capacity batteries so if it comes to that, BMW can upgrade the battery but i think it will be really expensive.

 

[nickp]

I always knew that Rex kicks in at 6% but the first time i underestimated how quickly battery will discharge to 2% and car will slow down(not without the warning though) It was not fun at all! Since then I installed bimmerCode to unlock the Rex.

Besides, the i3 is the only car that is compatible with newer higher capacity batteries so if it comes to that, BMW can upgrade the battery but i think it will be really expensive.

I know this may be a stretch but I bought my Gen 2 Prius in 2006 and the battery replacement was $3500 from Toyta after the warranty period.
Well still own the Prius and got my battery replaced 3 years ago for $1200 albeit refurbished. I fully expect aftermarket batteries and other businesses to offer similar solutions for the i3.

 

[alohart]

Well still own the Prius and got my battery replaced 3 years ago for $1200 albeit refurbished. I fully expect aftermarket batteries and other businesses to offer similar solutions for the i3.

I had a similar experience with my 2000 Honda Insight hybrid even though less than 20k were sold total. The 3rd-party battery pack replacements were rebuilt with new, higher-capacity cells rather than refurbished with "good" cells taken from used battery packs. Honda sold refurbished packs which seemed to fail sooner than the rebuilt packs.

I also expect 3rd-party battery pack modules to be available for much less than the BMW dealer price after the battery pack warranties begin to expire in significant numbers.

 

[EVMan]

What happened to the law suite ? its easy to reproduce , and by this time ,nay owners will have even sold it...
If Nissan is in trouble with rapid gate, which happens after few charges , i think this has it merits . This will happen in 2 minutes , going uphill.

 

[dfdureiko]

This entire mess could have been avoided had the dealerhips sales staff informed the customers of the cars limitations, and the owners manual as well.....the manual was very very obtuse regarding the operation of the car. My 2015 Volts oweners manual explained just about everything and was very explicit in how the car operated. I Love my i3, it works for me in FL as no mountainous terrain. The Volt had THREE cooling systems, one for the engine, the battery pack and the electronics........still don't really have that info on the i3....

 

[alohart]

The Volt had THREE cooling systems, one for the engine, the battery pack and the electronics........still don't really have that info on the i3....

More detailed i3 information including about the i3's cooling systems is available at the URL's linked in this post.

 

[jfran2]

IMHO, I think some people on this forum are being unnecessarily hard on BMW. The fact is, building an electric car is expensive. To build enough of them to make them affordable, you need to sell them in America. To sell them in America, you have to follow California's rules, so they can be eligible for huge tax incentives, be affordable for a two-year lease, then be sold at auction for the rest of us to enjoy. That's not "stupid" BMW's fault, that's our stupid California politician's fault. Thank goodness for the developers at Bimmercode and others who found an easy way for us to get our car's true functionality back! For people who say their dealers are ignorant of the way the REX works in Europe, my bet would be that they know perfectly well what it's supposed to do. It's more likely that California made BMW sign some sort of agreement that they would not change the REX setting in order to keep selling the cars in that state. Again, IMHO, our best option would be to write our politicians to pass laws that will benefit the electric car community as a whole, and not let California run the rest of the country!

 

[i3Houston]

I think the people are hard on BMW because the 6% battery buffer runs out so quickly and that has put them in in a bad situation. All seem to have the same ask to mitigate this issue, BMW should offer battery upgrade.

 

[EVMan]

IMHO, I think some people on this forum are being unnecessarily hard on BMW. The fact is, building an electric car is expensive. To build enough of them to make them affordable, you need to sell them in America. To sell them in America, you have to follow California's rules, so they can be eligible for huge tax incentives, be affordable for a two-year lease, then be sold at auction for the rest of us to enjoy. That's not "stupid" BMW's fault, that's our stupid California politician's fault. Thank goodness for the developers at Bimmercode and others who found an easy way for us to get our car's true functionality back! For people who say their dealers are ignorant of the way the REX works in Europe, my bet would be that they know perfectly well what it's supposed to do. It's more likely that California made BMW sign some sort of agreement that they would not change the REX setting in order to keep selling the cars in that state. Again, IMHO, our best option would be to write our politicians to pass laws that will benefit the electric car community as a whole, and not let California run the rest of the country!

I am a supporter of small rex. But as an engineer, i agree with the lawsuit
I agree the carb rules are not best. But they do not dictate to put a small engine. neither they forced BMW to follow them.
If all other cars have bigger engine and still don't follow blindly the CARB rule. Clearly BMW needs to use engineering sense , but they used financial sense over engineering sense for a mountain country in CA.
BMW is not the victim here . the customers who purchased it are the victims.
They should clearly warn, the rex will not suffice in mountain.

Understand, the rex is a selling point of the car. They charge more. Someone may choose the rex over another car for the rex feature , which may not work. This is false advertising .