REx Class Action Lawsuit

[TOEd]

During some recent trips we lost power several times while driving on the REX. Power loss occurred after driving uphill for more than a mile, particularly during driving rain, sometimes into a headwind at about 10 C . Yes there was a warning chime. Power symbol progressively lost bars on right side until white bar was against remaining blue bar. Car slowed to 45 mph from 60 to 65 mph. Speed limit was 70 mph. After about a mile we crested the hill and power was recovered. Stopping for gas part way up a hill allowed REx to recover particularly since we stayed stationary for several minutes while REx was allowed to run. When we lost power we drove in the far right lane on a highway with light traffic.

 

[jadnashuanh]

If you had run out of fuel on an ICE, you would have, if lucky, had enough momentum to get to the breakdown lane if you can wrestle the steering now that it has no power. I still don't see why going into limp mode on the REx is a defect. FWIW, the owner's manual states the following:
"If the high-voltage battery is heavily discharged
during the trip, the performance and
some comfort features are reduced step-by step
to extend the range."

This will happen whether you have the REx or not. Most people do not read the manual to their peril. Even if mentioned during the new car intro the dealer (should) provide, so much is happening, most people would not remember. IT really doesn't matter when the REx is turned on, if you get the SOC low enough, it will happen regardless.

The manual also states (my emphasis):
"The range can be abruptly reduced or increased
based on the following factors:
▷ Driving style.
▷ Traffic conditions.
▷ Program change via Driving Dynamics
Control.
▷ Climate and terrain conditions.
▷ Automatic climate control settings.
▷ After determination of a route by the navigation
system.
▷ When exiting a route or recalculating a
route."

 

[TOEd]

When we ran out of fuel the car behaved very well. It coasted an extremely long distance while the brakes and steering operated normally. No drama. Plenty of time to find a good place to pull over to use my emergency supply of fuel kept in the frunk. Four way emergency flasher button is very conveniently located.

 

[electrons]

During some recent trips we lost power several times while driving on the REX. Power loss occurred after driving uphill for more than a mile, particularly during driving rain, sometimes into a headwind at about 10 C . Yes there was a warning chime. Power symbol progressively lost bars on right side until white bar was against remaining blue bar. Car slowed to 45 mph from 60 to 65 mph. Speed limit was 70 mph. After about a mile we crested the hill and power was recovered. Stopping for gas part way up a hill allowed REx to recover particularly since we stayed stationary for several minutes while REx was allowed to run. When we lost power we drove in the far right lane on a highway with light traffic.

Very typical scenario for the lawsuit. Maybe you should have pulled over and parked for a while on a side road and let the Rex engine recharge the battery (until the Rex shut off automatically when done). I understand why you didn't, except when you had to for gas, since you weren't going to play the "Energy Optimization Game" the i3 throws at you in real time. A very normal response.

Glad you had light traffic. Can't count on that.

If you had run out of fuel on an ICE, you would have, if lucky, had enough momentum to get to the breakdown lane if you can wrestle the steering now that it has no power. I still don't see why going into limp mode on the REx is a defect.

The main point about the i3's defect is to never operate a moving speedbump (an i3 limping) on roads with 80 mph giant SUVs and 18-wheelers on your bumper. By contrast, running out of gas in normal gasoline cars means you have to exit the road immediately, period, and its much rarer anyway due to long range gas tanks in ICE cars. The Rex tank size means you can limp on for many miles going in and out of Crazy-Slow mode for many miles, a big difference.

Those who harp on saying the i3 CAN do 70 mph with the Rex running must understand that you go much, much slower at low battery charge, or when passengers are in the car, or cargo, or headwinds, or hills happen, etc., so good luck negating all those factors simultaneously.

FWIW, the owner's manual states the following:

"FWIW", not worth much. It's simply a statement of physics combined with very vague operating dynamics of battery depletion, Rex contribution, mode settings, parasitic energy draws, navigation, and driver input. People don't read owner's manuals, much less are able juggle Dynamic Optimization problems in real time while driving in the rain at night (TOEd's situation above).
Most of us can see how unreasonable this is from a human factors viewpoint.

This lawsuit will succeed if a logical jury is seated.

 

[TOEd]

I have no doubt the lawsuit will succeed. At least half the jury will be driving pick-up trucks or SUVs. Most of them will have a strong dislike of those EVs that they honk at for doing less than 10 over the speed limit. They will abhor the idea that an i3 has been designed such that it may do 45 mph on a 70 mph highway. They already believe that these cars are ridiculous so when they learn that they can easily run out of gas because of a 2 gallon fuel tank they will be more than happy to right this design flaw.

 

[jadnashuanh]

My point is that if you ignore the warnings, at least the i3 with a REx still can move out of its own way while still providing power steering and brakes AND, if you understand how it works and actually read the instructions that come with your high dollar device, it should not come as a surprise. What ever became of personal responsibility?

IMHO, BMW would have done better ignoring the REx version, and only sold the BEV. They hinted at that, and discussed it as more of an emergency backup, but marketing then seemed to change it to just longer, unrestricted driving, which is a mistake unless you understand and abide by its limitations. The big problem is, people treat it like an ICE with full performance available until it runs out of the last ounce of fuel...battery operated devices, whether assisted by an on-board generator or not, do not operate in the same way.

The Volt had different design guidelines...whether you believe those are the better choice or not depends on what your expectation are. It is designed as a hybrid that could replace your ICE for all situations...the i3 was not designed with that goal. It is likely that the i5 or whatever comes next, can. The i8 already is in the same view as the Volt, where it can easily go on its ICE, has reasonable range with a decent sized tank, and can keep going. But, it, too, can slow down if you've overloaded its battery pack's SOC, it's just that it has significant power from the ICE that can and does keep you going at probably any legal speed in the USA until you run out of gasoline. You'd probably only notice that while running around a track, but it could happen with really aggressive driving on the road, too. The drop from full electric plus ICE to ICE only still has the car with a lot of power, probably about 8x what the i3 with REx has, at least via the engine alone.

 

[alohart]

They already believe that these cars are ridiculous so when they learn that they can easily run out of gas because of a 2 gallon fuel tank they will be more than happy to right this design flaw.

Just to be clear, the alleged design flaw has nothing to do with the size of the gasoline tank; the alleged flaw is that the power output of the REx generator is insufficient to prevent the battery pack's charge level from dropping below 2% under certain conditions. This results in the motor's power output being reduced in software to prevent the battery pack's charge level from dropping to 0% and to allow the REx generator an opportunity to increase the charge level so that normal performance would return.

The confusion among the plaintiff's occurred because the gasoline tank was not empty yet the electric motor power was reduced thus reducing the speed at which the car could travel unlike what would occur in a normal ICE vehicle. The "fuel gauge" that they weren't monitoring closely enough was the battery pack's charge level.

I, as a U.S. citizen who resides half of each year in Sweden, feel that this lawsuit is yet another example of U.S. residents blaming others for something that residents of most other countries would take responsibility for themselves: learning how their cars function so that they could avoid or be prepared for a loss of power that is totally predictable by merely paying attention to the battery pack's charge level. I hope but doubt that this lawsuit will be dismissed as frivolous.

 

[i3an]

+1

 

[electrons]

Conversation during the next freeway traffic jam at noon:
"Why are we jammed up? Crash ahead maybe?"
"Nope, just BMW i3's in Rex mode trying to go up a shallow hill into a light headwind breeze."
---- And 3,000 car drivers behind the moving i3 roadblock hope the lawsuit suceeds.-----

Kind of says it all.

Going into the Rocky Mountains on I-70 out of Denver, there are special uphill lanes for low specific powered trucks to slow to a crawl and let faster traffic by.
Do we now need special BMW i3 Rex slow lanes built? Who will pay for that?

 

[Brice]

Conversation during the next freeway traffic jam at noon:
"Why are we jammed up? Crash ahead maybe?"
"Nope, just BMW i3's in Rex mode trying to go up a shallow hill into a light headwind breeze."
---- And 3,000 car drivers behind the moving i3 roadblock hope the lawsuit suceeds.-----

Kind of says it all.

Going into the Rocky Mountains on I-70 out of Denver, there are special uphill lanes for low specific powered trucks to slow to a crawl and let faster traffic by.
Do we now need special BMW i3 Rex slow lanes built? Who will pay for that?
[\quote="electrons"]

Nobody.

Just code your car and start the REx at 75 % left on the battery , or even at 10 %.

Stop play dumb.

 

[Brice]

Conversation during the next freeway traffic jam at noon:
"Why are we jammed up? Crash ahead maybe?"
"Nope, just BMW i3's in Rex mode trying to go up a shallow hill into a light headwind breeze."
---- And 3,000 car drivers behind the moving i3 roadblock hope the lawsuit suceeds.-----

Kind of says it all.

Going into the Rocky Mountains on I-70 out of Denver, there are special uphill lanes for low specific powered trucks to slow to a crawl and let faster traffic by.
Do we now need special BMW i3 Rex slow lanes built? Who will pay for that?

Nobody.

Just code your car and start the REx at 75 % left on the battery , or even at 10 %.

Stop play dumb.

 

[TOEd]

Hopefully the class action lawsuit will require BMW to recode our cars as you have suggested. Simple solution!

 

[alohart]

Conversation during the next freeway traffic jam at noon:
"Why are we jammed up? Crash ahead maybe?"
"Nope, just BMW i3's in Rex mode trying to go up a shallow hill into a light headwind breeze."
---- And 3,000 car drivers behind the moving i3 roadblock hope the lawsuit succeeds.-----

When I drove my VW bus pulling a UHaul trailer up I-70 out of Denver probably traveling more slowly than an i3 REx in reduced power mode, no one sued VW just as they shouldn't sue BMW.

Going into the Rocky Mountains on I-70 out of Denver, there are special uphill lanes for low specific powered trucks to slow to a crawl and let faster traffic by.
Do we now need special BMW i3 Rex slow lanes built? Who will pay for that?

Right lanes in multilane highways around the world (left lanes for those countries that drive on the left) are intended for any vehicle that cannot maintain the speed limit, including an i3 REx in reduced power mode. I drove in the right lane on Interstate highways between Colorado and California in my VW bus with UHaul trailer which caused no problems just as driving an i3 REx in reduced power mode would cause no problems. There are plenty of vehicles that cannot maintain the speed limit, yet they drive on roads throughout the world without causing death and destruction. Maybe I'm just missing your attempt at humor, or you're being incredibly silly.

 

[electrons]

Just code your car and start the REx at 75 % left on the battery , or even at 10 %.

Hopefully the class action lawsuit will require BMW to recode our cars as you have suggested. Simple solution!

Then the i3 would violate the CARB rule that says the BEV range must be greater than the gasoline range Rex mode portion.
I suppose BMW could just pay the CARB fines Rex-equipped i3's sold in the past as one solution.

I'd agree that turning on the Rex engine at, say, about 40% of battery charge, would help a lot. Then the Rex could spin at full power and try it's best to inject electrons into the battery as you drive, keeping this crazy reduced performance mode at bay until the tank runs dry in most cases.
--------Don't make it manual because people would forget to turn it on.
--------Don't tie it to the navigation or predicted charging location since people may change their routes & plans.
It's got to be an automatic Rex activation at about 40% battery left. At least you'd be able to get 50 all-BEV miles out of the i3 before the buzzy lawnmower engine lights up. If you don't like that, then just don't put gas in the Rex tank.

BTW, is there more than one law firm trying to do this?
MLG Automotive Law in L.A. was one often reported, and there was this other one:

Multiple class action suits. Probably combined with the Cosby case too..... :arrow: :lol:

 

[electrons]

Right lanes in multilane highways around the world (left lanes for those countries that drive on the left) are intended for any vehicle that cannot maintain the speed limit, including an i3 REx in reduced power mode. I drove in the right lane on Interstate highways between Colorado and California in my VW bus with UHaul trailer.....

Guess what: Right lanes and multiple lanes aren't always available. This, apparently, needs to be pointed out to you. Next time, gather clues before typing, please.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Is an 18-wheeler that is unable to maintain the speed limit a serious death trap? I don't think so! Under normal circumstances, the i3, doesn't matter if it has a REx or not, can maintain any legal speed in the USA until you are about empty on the battery SOC. If you reach that magic almost dead point on the SOC, it's far better than an ICE that just shuts off entirely, and the ICE won't have gone through multiple, progressive warnings to tell you about it. Not all cars even have a low-fuel warning light...you must actually pay attention to your car and watch the gauge!

It really bothers me that people don't take the time to understand new technology after they've spent a significant sum of money for it. As an emergency backup so you are not stranded, the REx works as designed. It was never designed to provide full power full time of use under all circumstances. If you have any technical knowledge or even common sense, you'd understand that 34hp, when that's all you have left to propel the i3, just won't perform miracles - that's about what the original VW Bug had, and those couldn't climb a hill at speed any time, let alone when their gas ran out! They had problems maintaining speed even on the level if they were fully loaded or there was a good headwind. Guess what, if you continue to exceed the 34hp max that the REx can provide, the SOC will decrease...do it long enough, and it will reach that magic low SOC where it will force you to slow down. It doesn't really matter when you turned it on.

I really don't care when you turn on the REx...on a long trip, if you continually stress the system, the SOC will continue to drop, and you can reach that low SOC and the same problem can occur. Only if the REx were much larger (requiring more cooling, space, fuel, weight which results in less range, etc.) could it provide adequate power to keep the i3 going under any circumstances. The car has a 170hp electric motor, then add in all of the other things: computers, lights, HVAC, wipers, etc., if you're stressing things, you'd need a much bigger motor than 34hp to have it work all of the time under any circumstances. Where are you going to put it? How would you cool it to keep it from self-destructing? Would you be willing to live with the reduced pure EV range because of carrying around all of that extra weight? Do you really want to spend the money for it?

It is what it is...if it doesn't work for your needs, you bought the wrong car. IMHO, it is not broken. IT's sort of like buying a 4-cylinder truck, then complaining that it can't pull your house trailer.

Could BMW have installed a larger, more powerful engine? Certainly, but it didn't fit the design parameters of the vehicle and its intended use patterns. If you need to stress or stretch the limits, you need to learn to live with the limitations or buy a different vehicle, not complain that you bought the wrong one and someone must pay for it! America has too many lawyers, and too little common sense.

 

[TOEd]

Where were the GM ĺawyers when they were killing people with their faulty ignition switches? Or Chrysler and their door latches? Or Ford and the exploding gas tanks on their Pinto? Or VW and their lies to cover up the pollution from their diesel engines? How many people need to die before you realize that corporations do not exhibit the human traits know as ethics and morality? Common sense is a human attribute. If is not an attribute displayed by corporations.

 

[mlsstl]

Where were the GM ĺawyers when they were killing people with their faulty ignition switches? Or Chrysler and their door latches? Or Ford and the exploding gas tanks on their Pinto? Or VW and their lies to cover up the pollution from their diesel engines? How many people need to die before you realize that corporations do not exhibit the human traits know as ethics and morality? Common sense is a human attribute. If is not an attribute displayed by corporations.

Actually, plaintiff lawyers were quite busy in all of those situations.

I'll disagree that corporations behave differently than individuals. History is full of examples where individuals made a decision to be greedy, selfish and to enhance/protect themselves at the expense of others.

Every decision made by a corporation can be traced back to decisions made by individuals, whether an individual employee to hide what's he's done or a group of executive offices or board of directors protecting their interests. It is still people behaving badly.

That said, since corporations are collections of individuals, they also have the capacity to reach right decisions and do good things.

In this case, I'll agree that people who are suing over this i3 issue simply bought the wrong car. It is what it is, and now they are complaining that it works the way it was designed to work.

 

[alohart]

Guess what: Right lanes and multiple lanes aren't always available.

Of course not! So what? There are plenty of vehicles that can't maintain the speed limits on 2-lane roads. This is nothing new. It's the responsibility of drivers to not crash into the vehicles in front of them. If they don't want to travel at that speed, then overtake safely. It's amazing to me that people consider vehicles that don't travel at or above the speed limit to be dangerous. Maybe it's young drivers who have very little 2-lane highway experience.

 

[PluviaPlumbum]

Hagens Berman should perhaps have read the manual supplied with each vehicle that warns of the very situation they wish to sue for.

Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware.

Travelling slowly on the highway is not a crime or illegal as far as I'm aware. Not a single accident or fatality as far as I'm aware. :lol: