BMW i3 FIRE

[bmwi3fire]

Please keep us informed about the progress of this class action. I will be surprised if the class size is significant.

Will do.

The Qualified Entities under the Irish Section 18 of the Act transposing the Directive imposes an obligation on the Qualified Entities to publish on their website details of ongoing class actions.

Currently the two Qualified Entities in Ireland are the Irish Council of Civil Liberties and NOYB (none of your business).

However, there are 47 other qualified entities across the EU, all of which may bring cross-border collective action for infringements of relevant enactments.

 

[mojo]

In addition, the BMW i3 doesn't appear to be equipped with an oil pressure sensor to show a loss of pressure in the event of sudden oil loss.

As already stated, the REx engine does have an oil pressure sensor. The circumstances that you seem to describe will not cause sudden oil loss.

If the fill point cap is left off, you should expect to get slow oil loss and no loss of oil pressure for a significant length of time because, as explained, that part of the system is not pressurised (it is, in effect, the return point for the oil circulatory system).

 

[Mondomensch]

UN R118 if memory serves me right.

UN R34 refers to fuel tanks.

Thank you - it's always good to learn something new!

It seems that those are international technical standards (for buses and similar large vehicles in this case) that are then referenced by individual countries or regulatory organizations who have the power to enforce rules and standards.

 

[bmwi3fire]

As already stated, the REx engine does have an oil pressure sensor. The circumstances that you seem to describe will not cause sudden oil loss.

If the fill point cap is left off, you should expect to get slow oil loss and no loss of oil pressure for a significant length of time because, as explained, that part of the system is not pressurised (it is, in effect, the return point for the oil circulatory system).

oh, that's news to me.

You wouldn't have the part number by any chance?

Is it in any way linked to an oil warning in the dash?

 

[mojo]

oh, that's news to me.

I don't know why it's news to you. It has already been stated further up in this thread.

If you want a part number, just look it up on Realoem, or one of the other parts catalogues. As already said further up in this thread, under-pressure in the oil system will almost certainly bring up a warning message on the dash.

 

[bmwi3fire]

I don't know why it's news to you. It has already been stated further up in this thread.

If you want a part number, just look it up on Realoem, or one of the other parts catalogues. As already said further up in this thread, under-pressure in the oil system will almost certainly bring up a warning message on the dash.

I read the article above and read the post by Burch Motors. I can see the photo of the Crank Shaft position sensor, I can see a fault code pertaining to an oil pressure switch, but I can't seem to find anywhere the picture, location or part number for the oil switch, nor the red warning oil light that triggers in the event of loss of oil pressure in ICE.

 

[mojo]

The problem is that your case will look bad if you refer, as statements of fact, to things that BMW will easily be able to show to be false. There is no point in trying to base a legal case on "facts" that aren't facts.

 

[bmwi3fire]

The problem is that your case will look bad if you refer, as statements of fact, to things that BMW will easily be able to show to be false. There is no point in trying to base a legal case on "facts" that aren't facts.

I absolutely agree with you on this.

I am not claiming to hold the absolute truth. Nor do I hold a Mechanical Engineering qualification or other relevant qualification. But I do seek to get to the truth.

One of the most pressing questions is: "Why is the BMW i3 no longer made?" I mean, I never drove anything more enjoyable than this car.

However, the regulations pertaining to M1 category vehicles exist and they pose certain obligations in relation to safety of vehicles. These regulations changed continuously aiming to make cars safer.

As a Fire Protection professional I can only look at the i3 the way I look at buildings when trying to understand the risks associated with the I3.

The facts are yet to be found. I hold no facts. Neither does anyone else whose I3 went up in flames.

There is however something all these fires have in common. The fire appears to have been extremely aggressive in all circumstances and the time the entire vehicle is consumed by the fire, appear to be consistently of an extremely short duration.

This raises serious concerns in a world where Fire Safety is no longer frowned upon.

 

[airman2482]

7 recalls.

Fire risk.


Our bmw i3 rEx caught fire while driving.

I do not believe in coincidences.

I see a lot of posts about other burnt Bmw i3 rEx.

BMW endangered my family by not making those recalls known to us.

I now ask every BMW i3 owner whose car went up in flames to please contact me with a detailed description of what happened to their car, including photos.

Please email me at [email protected]

Thank you!

Hello

Saw your post to me. My BMW didn’t catch fire. I have a 2017 REX and all recalls and service bulletins are current.

Sorry to hear about your fire. I watch my REX pretty carefully, and if there’s even a “wisp” of a problem, I’ll bring it to the stealership under warranty. (CA original title)

I do pretty much my own maintenance and closely watch the REX.

I used to be a volunteer fireman in my city - one of the largest all-volunteer departments in the nation - we’ll used to be, with a city of almost 100,000 we now have a couple of full time firefighters at each of the six city stations, and a full time staff at the Mall of America substation.

If I can help, let me know.

Good luck!

- if you read the long diatribe of posts regarding the i3 fire, my i3 didn’t start on fire… I called the OP’s i3 fire posts baloney and show the post was a bunch of false BS - I also work PT in Law Enforcement and it doesn’t take a “rocket scientist” to see the whole line of posts the guy made along the pics he posted showed no proof in any jurisdiction showing what he alleged was true. (I checked public records and the OP “disappeared” after I pressed for the jurisdiction name)

 

[havrla]

People, get a grip—this isn’t normal. You’re blaming the whole world for your own or someone else’s negligence. The protocol is clear: the oil filler cap wasn’t closed. It’s obvious, and anyone who has ever changed oil or is a technician knows that if the cap isn’t closed, oil aerosol, vapors, and small oil droplets escape.
The oil leak doesn’t manifest immediately; first, the insulation around the engine absorbs it. It can soak up a significant amount of oil without any visible leakage from the car. Hot oil can ignite a kitchen, let alone an engine.
A lot of oil can escape from the engine, and as long as the intake pump doesn’t draw air, the pressure sensor will continue to indicate a good value. However, as soon as the pressure in the lubrication system drops, the engine will seize very quickly. If the sensor doesn’t work, the engine will seize regardless—it’ll just stop.
Accept the fact that either someone, or perhaps you yourself, changed the oil and forgot to close the filler cap. That’s what Occam’s razor is all about. The problem isn’t the oil sensor, nor is it that the car is made of flammable materials—the problem is the forgotten oil filler cap, the subsequent oil leak, and ignition from the hot exhaust.

 

[alohart]

One of the most pressing questions is: "Why is the BMW i3 no longer made?"

One reason is how much more time is required to make a CFRP passenger cell, laying the carbon fiber cloth on forms, infusing it with an epoxy resin, and allowing the resin to cure, compared with stamping and robot-welding a steel chassis. This made the i3 cost-uncompetitive with new EV's that were being introduced. BMW management changed with the new management dropping the ball on EV development after being ahead most other vehicle manufacturers with the i3.

I've never heard any concern expressed about the safety of the i3's CFRP construction. CFRP is apparently safe enough for Boeing to use it for the 787's fuselage and for Airbus to use it for the A-350's fuselage. High-performance vehicles typically use CFRP in their construction without any apparent safety issues. However, a variety of resins are used in making CFRP, so maybe some are less flammable than others.

 

[mojo]

This made the i3 cost-uncompetitive with new EV's that were being introduced. BMW management changed with the new management dropping the ball on EV development after being ahead most other vehicle manufacturers with the i3.

I've read on other forums that a further factor was the lifetime of some of the moulds and other equipment needed during manufacture. It's been said that some of this equipment was going to need replacing, and that BMW were not willing to commit the significant capital investment needed, given the expected fall in EV prices (mainly due to price pressures from the Far East).

One further fact that undermines any case about CFRP being too flammable to use in cars: cars with essentially all-plastic panels have been around for many many years - for example until recently I owned a 1966 Jensen C-V8 that was all-plastic based externally (other than the door panels) and Reliant made a vehicle (the SS1) in the mid-1980s which had entirely plastic outer and inner panels, with a variety of different construction types (i.e. not all GFRP). And as I recall, the early versions of the Renault Espace had mainly plastic outer panels - and that car sold in greater numbers than the i3.

The use of plastic in the construction of vehicles is so well established that you don't (IMO) stand any chance at all of making a case that CFRP is inherently "dangerous" in terms of fire risk.

 

[JamesInLondon]

I've read on other forums that a further factor was the lifetime of some of the moulds and other equipment needed during manufacture. It's been said that some of this equipment was going to need replacing, and that BMW were not willing to commit the significant capital investment needed, given the expected fall in EV prices (mainly due to price pressures from the Far East).

One further fact that undermines any case about CFRP being too flammable to use in cars: cars with essentially all-plastic panels have been around for many many years - for example until recently I owned a 1966 Jensen C-V8 that was all-plastic based externally (other than the door panels) and Reliant made a vehicle (the SS1) in the mid-1980s which had entirely plastic outer and inner panels, with a variety of different construction types (i.e. not all GFRP). And as I recall, the early versions of the Renault Espace had mainly plastic outer panels - and that car sold in greater numbers than the i3.

The use of plastic in the construction of vehicles is so well established that you don't (IMO) stand any chance at all of making a case that CFRP is inherently "dangerous" in terms of fire risk.

Fifty years ago, I owned a Lotus Elite with the entire monocoque structure made from glass fibre, the Coventry Climax engine had remarkably loose tolerances and the car always reeked of petroleum, but it lasted a couple of years in my possession without ever showing any signs of combusting.
“Plastic” cars have been around for longer than most of the members of this forum.

 

[alohart]

Fifty years ago, I owned a Lotus Elite with the entire monocoque structure made from glass fibre, the Coventry Climax engine had remarkably loose tolerances and the car always reeked of petroleum, but it lasted a couple of years in my possession without ever showing any signs of combusting.
“Plastic” cars have been around for longer than most of the members of this forum.

Good point!

Another example is the Chevrolet Corvette. Since it was introduced in 1953, its bodies have been made of glass fiber reinforced polymer, a.k.a., fiberglass. The resin that binds the glass fiber is very similar to that which bonds the carbon fiber in the i3's CFRP passenger cell.