Battery technology 2017?

[ecoangel]

Do you see BMW offering a battery upgrade in say 3 years time? This video (in German) gives some idea of how manufacturers like Volkswagen and Panasonic are seeking to improve range of BEVs:

http://youtu.be/GgHRZuu63D4

You may have seen this one:

http://youtu.be/OtfKux9BUnE

 

[elptex]

This is why we went with a 3 year lease on the i3. We didn't want to buy/own a car that, in 3 years time, would already be seen as having old technology and <100 mile range. In 3 years we are banking on there being a 200-mile range model available (at lower than the Tesla Model S price).

 

[ecoangel]

Maybe something to compete with proposed Tesla E?

http://ecomento.com/2014/03/04/electric-tesla-model-e-half-price-20-percent-smaller-70000-model-s/

 

[BoMW]

In the middle of August I attended the last formula E testing session at Donnington. There were 2 i3 medical cars and one i8 track car. The i3 was demonstrating induction charging ,by driving over a metre squared pad and using an iPhone to align optimum position.

Any way I managed to find the BMW rep and asked him about the possibility of exchanging batteries in the future once considerable improvements were made. He said that this was bmw's intention. He also mentioned that they already have a 30% improvement on range with their latest battery development!

 

[jelloslug]

I see it as a real possibility.

 

[nowtta60]

This is why we went with a 3 year lease on the i3. We didn't want to buy/own a car that, in 3 years time, would already be seen as having old technology and <100 mile range. In 3 years we are banking on there being a 200-mile range model available (at lower than the Tesla Model S price).

I've kind of gone the opposite way... buy outright and hold on to it till the carbon fibre starts to delaminate. Say around 2024 I might stick in a new 100kWh battery that weighs 100kg and costs $5,000 and tell the to pull out the REX as it's no longer needed. I'm sure though I might get tempted to do that earlier if they have a 50kWh solid state battery than can charge in 5 minutes.

The main benefit for me buying out right is the company then get to write off the value of the car against corporation tax. Saving me £6,600!

I guess leasing is a better option if you know you wont want to keep the car and like to keep paying for the 1st 3 years of depreciation and interest payments on new cars and/or don't want to have to have the hassle of selling them at the end ;-)

 

[WoodlandHills]

Unless one can access the batteries from the underside of the car, wouldn't the cost of removing the body from a 10 year old i3 to upgrade batteries make it prohibitively expensive? Or is it in fact, very easy to unplug and lift off the passenger cell? If so it might be feasible although I cannot see why BMW would ever want to offer this despite what they tell you today: much more profit in a new car than in new batteries. Would EU and US patent law allow a third party to knock-off the batteries to sell upgrades if BMW won't? With no standard battery sizes upgrades against the wishes of a MFG is unlikely.

Maybe a 3 year lease is not such a bad way to keep abreast of fast changing technology?

 

[jadnashuanh]

The batteries must be reasonably replaced without disassembling the whole car!

 

[jelloslug]

Unless one can access the batteries from the underside of the car, wouldn't the cost of removing the body from a 10 year old i3 to upgrade batteries make it prohibitively expensive? Or is it in fact, very easy to unplug and lift off the passenger cell? If so it might be feasible although I cannot see why BMW would ever want to offer this despite what they tell you today: much more profit in a new car than in new batteries. Would EU and US patent law allow a third party to knock-off the batteries to sell upgrades if BMW won't? With no standard battery sizes upgrades against the wishes of a MFG is unlikely.

Maybe a 3 year lease is not such a bad way to keep abreast of fast changing technology?

The battery can be removed from underneath the car.

 

[WoodlandHills]

That does of course, make perfect sense, but I am disappointed in a way. I had envisioned tuner bodied second hand i3's running around like 21st century Lotus 7's. Find a rolled i3 and put a kit body the platform. I am sure that chopping the harness and hacking the software of EV's will be common in another decade or less. Kids will always try to hotrod........

 

[nowtta60]

Unless one can access the batteries from the underside of the car, wouldn't the cost of removing the body from a 10 year old i3 to upgrade batteries make it prohibitively expensive? Or is it in fact, very easy to unplug and lift off the passenger cell? If so it might be feasible although I cannot see why BMW would ever want to offer this despite what they tell you today: much more profit in a new car than in new batteries. Would EU and US patent law allow a third party to knock-off the batteries to sell upgrades if BMW won't? With no standard battery sizes upgrades against the wishes of a MFG is unlikely.

Maybe a 3 year lease is not such a bad way to keep abreast of fast changing technology?

The battery can be removed from underneath the car.

There's some photos of it somewhere where you can see the battery is a module that would drop out, presumably with the help of a lift jack. I'm thinking BMW were playing it safe in case battery tech doesn't advance fast enough, they could take the route of offering fast swap stations at their dealers. I know the idea has done the rounds but the assumption is now battery tech will catch up fast enough to make battery swap unrequired.

It does sort of mean that you could buy after market batteries once yours is out of warranty.. is that 8 years?

 

[ultraturtle]

The individual battery cells weigh only 55 lbs, and can be pulled easily from above, with no need to detach the life module. Replacement of all 8 modules should not take much longer than 5 hours. From the Service Managers Workshop:

 

[jelloslug]

BMW states that removal and installation of the battery unit is to take 24 FRU (flat rate units). From what I understand 1 FRU is equal to 7.5 minutes so removal an installation should take 3 hours in a BMW shop.

 

[I33t]

The individual battery cells weigh only 55 lbs, and can be pulled easily from above, with no need to detach the life module. Replacement of all 8 modules should not take much longer than 5 hours. From the Service Managers Workshop:

Are you sure the cells can be pulled from above? The photo on the right shows the life module is detached before the cells are accessible. You would otherwise have to remove the floor of the passenger compartment to get to the batteries!

 

[Jeffj]

I believe the whole battery assembly can be "dropped" by simply undoing all the bolts holding it to the chassis. Once "dropped", the cover of the batter compartment can be removed by undoing screws and the individual batteries can be accessed from the top of the battery assembly. Key point is that the assembly has to be dropped from the car first.

 

[nowtta60]

That looks like something I would even have a go at DIY job if I had the right tools. Obviously on the understanding there's 400Volts and hundreds of amps ready and waiting to kill you if you don't isolate first. Rubber gloves please.

Looks a lot easier than dropping an engine and gearbox out of an ICE. In fact - easier and safer than replacing a gas tank consider we are talking power source and not propulsion unit.

 

[jelloslug]

That looks like something I would even have a go at DIY job if I had the right tools. Obviously on the understanding there's 400Volts and hundreds of amps ready and waiting to kill you if you don't isolate first. Rubber gloves please.

Looks a lot easier than dropping an engine and gearbox out of an ICE. In fact - easier and safer than replacing a gas tank consider we are talking power source and not propulsion unit.

The eight individual modules are isolated separately and would be quite difficult to short out unintentionally. There is a set of four videos on youtube that show the making of the i3 at the Leipzig factory and you can see just how well protected the individual cells are.

 

[sithsmith23]

I'm hoping BMW have a 5yr+ strategy of retro fit on the early I3 (& others?). I assume they have a vision (as do we all) of EV's becoming the norm vs ICE.
But whether it is us now or the next batch in 2 years or the next or the next....then unless there is a swap over your batteries to upgrade your EV as tech improves (or becomes viable for mass market) then there will always be barriers for 'normal' people to buy into and grow EV population (although I'm sure if BMW don't do this, then someone will at some point).
I'm going to buy outright (as the maths make sense for me) but also I'm planning for long term & expecting BMW to offer battery upgrade some point in the future (fingers crossed)