Why EV's won't be taking over gas cars anytime soon in the USA.

[eNate]

EVs will never offer quick enough charging times to be acceptable to most of the car buying public. 15 minutes is way too long to wait and people won't do it. IMHO of course.

Ok, you've got me curious in your take on that. I can see your point if it was 15+ minutes every time I "filled up" (more like 30, honestly), but most EV owners charge at home and work. Are you approaching this from the standpoint of around-home day to day usage? Or from the perspective of a road trip?

I'm asking because most non-EVers I talk to get hung up on the two points you're making – battery longevity and changing time – which are often legitimately misunderstood from a gas-pumping, cell phone, laptop and cordless drill battery ownership perspective.

 

[Dutchi3]

I would jump a hole in the air when charging times would be ~15 mins! Just enough to get a cup of coffee and a sanitary stop. But no, I think EV's will stay a relatively nice product in the end, when all dustclouds are cleared. I do not oppose "fossil" fuels, preferably natural gas. Cheap and abundant. Abundancy of cheap energy makes a society thrive, as history tells us.

 

[Whereitis]

Ok, you've got me curious in your take on that. I can see your point if it was 15+ minutes every time I "filled up" (more like 30, honestly), but most EV owners charge at home and work. Are you approaching this from the standpoint of around-home day to day usage? Or from the perspective of a road trip?

I'm asking because most non-EVers I talk to get hung up on the two points you're making – battery longevity and changing time – which are often legitimately misunderstood from a gas-pumping, cell phone, laptop and cordless drill battery ownership perspective.

I bought my i3 Rex in the expectation that I drive locally most of the time, and the expected 40 miles on battery (60 in the summertime) would typically be sufficient. But in the real world I find that 40 miles is often actually more like 25 if I take a run down the highway a few exits or even step on the gas pedal a bit too aggressively during my drive, and the need to fill up the gas tank is a major inconvenience when that tank only holds 2 gallons. I also find that even a slightly longer trip (such as an hour away, or two shorter trips back to back) turns into a major inconvenience, not to mention the constant anxiety over having to plan to stop for a refill practically every time I go anywhere (does this exit have a gas station? Maybe the next one does). I find myself treating the car mostly like an ICE vehicle but with a battery reserve, obviously not ideal nor I presume the purpose the designers intended. Hence my recent decision to go to a RAV4 Prime, with similar e-range but 400 miles of ICE range. I want the benefits of EVs but not the limitations. I don't think a full EV is in my future.

 

[mojo]

I bought my i3 Rex in the expectation that I drive locally most of the time, and the expected 40 miles on battery (60 in the summertime) would typically be sufficient.

But surely you're passing comment on the adequacy of a design that's more than a decade old?

If buying new, would anyone seriously be considering buying a BEV with less than 200 mile range today?

All you seem to be describing are the limitations of a car that was designed as a "city car" in around 2010.

 

[eNate]

Yeah I have to second Mojo's point. Forming this opinion based on an ownership experience with 10 year old EV is bound to result in this sort of mindset.

I just saw this today:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1145442_evs-charge-gas-cars-fill-up-us-consumers

 

[Whereitis]

But surely you're passing comment on the adequacy of a design that's more than a decade old?

If buying new, would anyone seriously be considering buying a BEV with less than 200 mile range today?

All you seem to be describing are the limitations of a car that was designed as a "city car" in around 2010.

I was replying to your comment, and this is after all an i3 forum so i think any i3 issues are relevant. The range anxiety concern is why I recently upgraded, and it's bonus to me to have actually leapfrogged over every previous car I've ever owned (ICE ranges mostly in the 250-300 range). To know I can go 400 guaranteed is a great feeling, even if I have to pay for gas to do it. If I were keeping my i3 I'd be looking into the frunk tank hack.

 

[Whereitis]

Yeah I have to second Mojo's point. Forming this opinion based on an ownership experience with 10 year old EV is bound to result in this sort of mindset.

I just saw this today:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1145442_evs-charge-gas-cars-fill-up-us-consumers

I find that report improbable, and I think most of those who say 15-40 minutes is OK but have never owned an EV would change their tune quickly once they're actually driving an EV and experiencing that wait time a few dozen times.

 

[airman2482]

Everyone I know who started driving an EV and experienced the cost savings over gas have commented to me: “I wish I would have tried it sooner”.

Most people I know don’t drive their EV on long trips. A neighbor who did on a longer trip (his Bolt) from Minneapolis are to middle of Nebraska, and up to the north shore in Minnesota, learned a different way to manage his fuel (electricity). He now takes his Honda hybrid for those trips. I don’t blame him! He still uses his EV for all other local errands/commutes every day.

“…A few dozen times…”, I wouldn’t like it either, but then again I really only use my EV as a commute/errand car. If I would go on a long trip, I’ll drive my gas SUV.

Charging my EV at home is a big savings over my gasmobile. I suspect most people would agree who drive an EV for their daily commute. (And charge at home at night)

I suspect the “cheap charging” will “sunset once big oil gets a stronghold in charging stations (like Shell recharge) after all they have to make money too, that’s why they’re in business. They aren’t a charity.
—-
Both of my kids each have a gas SUV and a pair of EVs (Tesla Model Y LR, 2 - Model 3 LR and Model S) they use their EVs to commute.

 

[airman2482]

And I still “love” my i3-REX even though it has “crap” range in the winter here in MN. Just a different mindset in planning trips. As I mentioned I’m still going to buy a Tesla (probably a Model Y) or a Chevy Equinox EV. My experience with the cost savings has been great!

 

[airman2482]

This is an interesting topic and one long overdue for a frank analysis and discussion. I've been saying for years (and written numerous letters to car magazines on the subject - none have been published yet) in which I claim the EV will never be fully mainstream in the USA until two technologies become widespread. 1) standardized swappable batteries. The two biggest issues about EVs are charging time and what to do with a 10-yr-old depleted battery. This solves both. You pull into the "swap station" and put your credit card in a slot. The machine extracts the dead battery from your car and inserts a freshly charged one. You're on your way in a minute or two with another 300 miles of range (give or take) and that battery gets reconditioned and goes back into the station's rotation to be swapped into another car that pulls in. Trucks and bigger cars can be equipped with 2 or even 3 battery slots for those who need more range or load capacity. Old batteries that can't be reconditioned are identified by the station to be shunted aside and recycled, and the individual EV owner never has to deal with it. 2) Inductive charging pads. I want to be able to pull into my garage (onto a car-size charging pad) and go into the house just like with my ICE car. I don't want to have to put down my groceries to plug in my EV and have to remember to unplug it the next morning. A charging pad solves this, making my EV as convenient as my ICE car day to day. These two technologies (and improvements in the electric grid to handle the greater loads we will have in the future as these stations ramp up) will be what finally makes ICE cars obsolete. IMHO and you heard it here first.

Great ideas! Except when a kid pulls into the garage with a ferrous bike wearing some ferrous metal objects and a switch malfunctions leaving the induction charge on.

Yes that’s an extreme situation, but “almost” anything is possible.

How long does it take to charge my EV at home? Most of the time- about 30 seconds- maybe a minute. I get out of the car and open the charging door, and plug it in. I have my cord suspended on a cable from the ceiling.

I doubt you would forget to unplug it the next since the car won’t go anywhere with it plugged in.

(That’s like saying one forgot to turn off the nose wheel hydraulic pumps and the crossfeed hydraulic valve in the 727 and the ramp rat pushes back and the shear bolt snaps on the nose gear truck - wait that’s happened to many a pilot)
—-
Have I forgotten to plug the car in at night?

Yes, I have a couple of times in the now almost 5 years I’ve owned my EV. So? It happens. I learned to obey the auto-reminder set on my phone to make sure the EV is plugged in. I’m not that lazy.

Batteries are being recycled. Technology will catch up .

See:

https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recycle-with-us/

Charging times- tech is changing. I’m sure complaining will continue from people even after charging times are reduced.

Some people will always find something to complain about.

As many have mentioned on here, EVs aren’t for everyone.

I’m still enjoying my almost $6,000 I’m cost savings over the Mercedes E350 4matic the i3 replaced!
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And as for battery, when the battery warranty stops (the CA CARB warranty) I’m seriously considering replacing the i3 battery with the 400+ mile Liontech battery

https://lionsmart.com/

https://electrek.co/2018/09/07/bmw-i3-100-kwh-battery-pack-lion-smart/

There has gotta be a battery out there for this application. The electrek article talked about a “proof of concept” battery.

Yes it would be $$$ at today’s prices.
Too bad BMW never really came through with the 120aH mod they offered in Europe for a short time for the rest of the world.

 

[Joff]

Having done a few EV battery swaps, it doesn't seem doable at a reasonable price point. There are people who complain about the cost of DC fastcharging! They need cooling. They need to tell the car how much capacity they have. Maybe you could have a main battery that stays in the car, is heated and cooled when needed and handles the high amp requirements, and sockets in the trunk or frunk to plug in several auxiliary batteries that could trickle power into the big battery and car without putting out high amps or getting hot. Maybe in the future when higher energy densities make them easier to handle.