Travelling to a UK i3 meet

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The i3 gathering in Milton Keynes on Sunday was a great day out. Some 39 cars turned out plus two i8 as well as some of BMW’s i-specialists. (Well done Ross for organising it).

As usual we started planning our route (CCS chargers) early - it's about 110-140 miles away depending on the route taken.

First thoughts were to go from Bath to Milton Keynes via Wheatley and to use the free Ecotricity charger whilst having breakfast at the services - would be perfect and could do the same on the way back including afternoon tea. Ecotricity’s map showed Wheatley wasn’t working and email indicated that they didn’t know when it might be fixed - usual story. No problem, there’s a Chargemaster CCS charger at a nearby Oxford Belfry hotel - charge £7 (plus an expensive breakfast - so not so perfect); we contacted the hotel who said their charger was down and they didn’t know when it might be back up running. Instead perhaps Chargepoint Genie at Eynsham, (£1.80 + 30p per kWHr) but that’s down as well. We could go along the M4 but Zap-Map shows Chievely is down and Ecotricity don’t have out of hours support so no way of checking; if Chievely isn’t working next would be Reading but by then it’s a rather long way around to Milton Keynes.

Final choice is a Chargemaster CCS in Buckingham - it’s 81 miles which is achievable but if it’s down then I’ll arrive at an electric car meet running on petrol which is not ideal. We decide to go for it but to include 20 miles of ReX just in case the charger isn’t working. We also take a flask of tea and some biscuits as there won’t be any breakfast to be had. Miracles, the charger is working but it’s £7 per 30 minutes - I’ve conserved some battery just in case so all we can charge is 11.5kWHrs in 25 minutes (mustn’t go over 30 minutes otherwise it’s another £7) so that’s 61p/kWHr about five times a sensible cost and more than my petrol would cost.

We arrive at the i3 meet in Milton Keynes and of course the CCS charger is down.

Great day and now the return journey and it may not be a surprise that I turned the ReX on and went straight home.

There’s nothing wrong with the car or with the ambition to travel the country electrically but the charging network is not something you can depend on and is becoming very expensive.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Until CCS units become as common as gas pumps...relying on them can be both frustrating and disruptive. Unfortunately, they are quite expensive, and unlike a gas pump, they won't get continuing use, so there's not much of a revenue stream, so the opportunity costs push up the price. But, I must say, England has at least tried to make things possible...there's little push in the USA to install them, and other than certain areas, they are not convenient since they are too far apart to use, even if they worked! Maybe, if we're lucky, someday, we'll be able to drive up to a bank of them, find one open to use that's working, and be on our way in short order.

 

[Jeffj]

This is the hidden-in-plain-sight Achilles heel of EV's in the US. Long distance travel requires DCFC, and DCFC is simply not a money making proposition from a business sense. A gas pump can bring in $250+/hour in revenue, a DCFC will sit unused if it tried to charge $25/hour. Add competing standards (Tesla, CHadeMo, CCS) and the prospects are even worse. Even if the units were free (and the BMW 24kW unit priced around $6K is as close to "free" as you are going to get), the site work, installation, maintenance, cost of electricity etc. on an installation make unlikely to attract any private investment as the chance of a positive return is essentially zero.

So we have to wait for public investment (basically taxing everyone for the benefit of very, very few) which takes eons, corporate penalties (NRG EvGO in CA, maybe VW across the US), or manufacturers. While Tesla is obviously committed and Nissan is doing its part and Kia is making a little bit of noise, the commitment by BMW, VW, GM, Ford is minimal. So we have very little DCFC infrastructure, and its not growing very quickly.

 

[psquare]

From a UK perspective - where things do look better - I am worried about the upscaling of the current infrastructure. At some point it has to make the next step, ie 2 or 3 CCS at a motorway location. But with subsidies for renewables dwindling seriously, I guess the likes of Ecotricity will have less budget available to expand into the next phase. Having said that, once the pumps become more reliable -on a Tesla-like Supercharger reliability level- they can easily charge for them. At least thats the plan, as I understand.

 

[jadnashuanh]

From a society viewpoint, especially in congested city situations, supporting EV use makes some sense. The decreased noise and pollution is a benefit for all people involved whether living, working, or visiting those areas (course, good public transportation is a boon as well). The benefit to society to support long-distance EV travel is much less relevant. Cars and trucks traveling at steady speeds outside of the city canyon spaces do not impose as big of a penalty on the environment, and thus, justifying lots of infrastructure expenses to support EVs isn't as intense. And, given that few of the EV's available were really designed for long-distance travel (that will change as battery tech evolves), supporting it away from city centers has less benefit to society.

At least in the USA, on things like our electric bill or phone bill, we pay a small tax each month to support providing power and phones to people living away from city centers, where the density makes it unprofitable for utilities to provide service. As EV's evolve and increase capabilities, without something like that to build up the recharging infrastructure, I do not think the private parties will be able to justify it from a business plan viewpoint without subsidies.

 

[janner]

In most developed countries transportation is the largest cause of air pollution. Concern about pollution in city centres is down to NOx concentration but outside of cities the pollution still occurs and the same amount of CO2 occurs wherever it is emitted. Electric charging for country-wide travel in Europe is essential and is happening; it may take a change of mindset in the US but it has to happen at some time.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Most developing countries have few to no emission control inspections or requirements. Certainly, new cars sold will tend to be much better than older ones, but there are huge numbers of the older ones around, and they will stay around for a very long time.

Modern ICE vehicles at cruise are quite efficient. Certainly, they will produce CO2 and other pollutants, but not anywhere near as much as stop and go, idling does in a city center, especially densely populated ones. As EV's gain longer range capabilities, more of them will be sold and become useful. Right now, EV's are less than 1% of vehicles sold...does it make sense to make huge investments in infrastructure now to support that small quantity of users? Especially since few of them have a long-range design? You could argue chicken-egg scenario...there aren't many long-range EV's out there because the infrastructure doesn't exist, or is it the infrastructure isn't being built up to useful status because there are so few users? Until CCS units become like pumps at a petrol station and you can be assured of finding one where needed...and the cost is immense, large quantities of people switching to EV's with the expectation of long-range travel will be limited to the pioneers willing to accept the limitations. Charging with lower cost EVSE's either at home or after a commute to work or shopping or watching a movie is much more relevant. And, even those are often hard to find open and operational or not blocked by an ICE. How many stories of people finding inoperable CCS units? Lots.

 

[janner]

Developing countries need to avoid a fossil fuel addiction: once they have it then it's there for 40 years - and we don't have that much time.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Developing countries need to avoid a fossil fuel addiction: once they have it then it's there for 40 years - and we don't have that much time.

In an ideal world...

It's not like we in the industrialized world can force them to spend money on more expensive technology. Given that you might be able to have 5 new vehicles (ICE) for the cost of one EV, in a place where people are now walking, which one will they choose? Most of those places have unreliable electric power, and not enough of it.

Look out if you live in the coastal areas anywhere on the globe...it's going to get nasty, and probably quicker than most realize. The growing season may extend enough so places further north (and south) could now become productive, but the shift will be traumatic.

The hurricane now hitting Mexico is the most intense one ever measured in the 50 or so years they've been able to measure things...sustained winds over 200mph.