Possible probleem?

[trumpetdoug]

So I'm a new (used 2017) I3 owner. I've had the car for about 2 1/2 months. LOVE THE CAR!!

It seems since having the car, on occasion, when charging, we trip a breaker. Occasionaly, meaning a few times in the last 2 1/2 months. (I know that's probably too much) For the record I have an electrician coming this week to put in a 220 line for a level 2 charger.

ANYWAY...........Last night we tripped a breaker while charging. The car had been charging for probably around 17 hours, as I had run the battery down to point where the REX fired up. Fine with me that's what it's for. I Have done this twice in 2 1/2 months. Is that cool? Sorry different discussion

ANYWAY.......... I flipped the breaker and it immediately tripped again. After doing this one more time. I went :shock: OOHH I should unplug the car.

WELL................ when I went into the garage there was a definite smell of something "plastic like"???? burning!! :shock:


I immediately unplugged the car and tried to find where the smell was coming from. Not the outlet, not the cord, not the transformer like box on the charger, not even inside the car anywhere?!?! For the life of me I could find the origin of the smell.

The car dash was registering !cannot charge! (I believe that's what it said) I did "start" the car and that icon went away. Car seemed fine.

WOW, I have an electrician coming today in a couple of hours. Could there be something wrong with the charging of the car?
BTW The car had fully charged completely to 127 miles. This is what the App reading said. I also got the warning on the App saying "!Could not charge!" or something like that.

 

[eNate]

Because you already have an electrician stopping by, seek his advice first. That's the expert opinion you want to put trust in.

But that won't stop me from asking a few questions and offering some ideas.

For clarification, this happened at the end of your 17 hour charge cycle? Has the trips happened only on one breaker?

Circuit breakers wear out. So do receptacles. A worn out breaker may trip more and more frequently, or may no longer clip securely into the panel. Sometimes you'll see signs of overload if you check for heat-damaged wires coming out of the breaker. You might notice the breaker switch is "soft" when you flip it, i.e. low spring tension or a soft detent. But often there is no outward sign, maybe other than age. A worn receptacle will often have a loose fit, sometimes have black marks on the face indicating heat damage, and sometimes the problem will be a loose connection in the wall.

If there's any doubt, these are both relatively inexpensive and not complicated to replace.

The chance of it being your EVSE or the i3 itself are remote, but I wouldn't dismiss them completely. If this problem has only occurred on this one household circuit, I think you've got it sufficiently narrowed down.

 

[Anonymous]

See what your electrician says, my guess it is either something in the circuit, ie. between the circuit breaker and the plug. or more likely it's the charger itself, not the car. The charger cord-unit which should kill the charge function and give a charge error light on the charger - (most decent chargers have this built-in safety feature with any power surge on the line). What brand charger, and is it UL tested and certified or the EU equivalent??

I will get a charge fault every few months. Will go into the garage and my charger will be showing a red light instead of blue for charging or green for done charging but connected to the car. Breaker is not tripped. I knew it wasn't the breaker or circuit as that was all new. Called the charger manufacturer and found that their charger will sense power surges on the line that may not be strong enough to trip the panel breaker, but the charger is set to disconnect with a red light error to protect the charger. I then just need to flip off the power to the charger at the breaker for a minute or so, then flip it back on to reset the charger. They offered to update the ROM in the charger to reset itself then this occurs, but so far this isn't happening enough to bother me.

My first guess it is the charger, as it should have switched itself off with any fault - the fact the it stayed powered and kept tripping the breaker is suspect.

 

[skeptic]

Tripping a breaker is no big deal, and there could be 100 different reasons why it trips sometimes and not others. Maybe you have a freezer or fridge on the same circuit that sometimes kicks in. Wife makes popcorn and the microwave is the same circuit, or clothes dryer or whatever. Another possibility, one that I just remembered I need to check into, is the power coming in from the power company. Especially true for an older house, the line from the power company may have issues causing power fluctuations. This is something your power company should check for free. They will not troubleshoot inside the house, at least not for free, but from the street to your house is all them.

The smell though, that would concern me. Something clearly overheated. Good call on getting an electrician. I'm sure you'll be much happier with a level 2 charger on a dedicated circuit, plus he can check into your existing setup and wiring.

 

[jadnashuanh]

There have been lots of posts from people that have had their receptacle overheated. THat's usually because the leads to it were loose. That can happen over time if they were not tightened properly. Another thing that can cause problems is if the receptacle's terminals no longer have much spring tension on them. A new receptacle, when inserting a plug, is normally pretty stiff pushing the plug in. A loose connection there can be an issue.

Someone mentioned the issue if there's something else on that circuit. When using 120vac, there's a car menu that lets you specify a lower maximum amperage to leave room for other things.

Code calls for not using more than 80% of the rated capacity of the circuit when something is plugged in long-term (more than 3-hours, I think). So, while the car won't pull enough on a dedicated circuit, if there's something else plugged in, or wired to that circuit, it could be easy to exceed that 80% maximum load.

Hopefully, you're not using an extension cord! If you are, make sure it is a 3-wire, thick (at least 14g, and 12g is better) heavy duty one that is in good shape.

The EVSE is mainly a safety interlock and power switch...the actual charging circuits where it changes from ACV to DCV for the batteries is in the car. Internally, it does have a small power supply to run the logic, but when power is needed at the vehicle, and everything is correct, all it does then is activate its power relay to get power to the vehicle.

 

[alohart]

The car dash was registering !cannot charge! (I believe that's what it said) I did "start" the car and that icon went away. Car seemed fine.

WOW, I have an electrician coming today in a couple of hours. Could there be something wrong with the charging of the car?
BTW The car had fully charged completely to 127 miles. This is what the App reading said. I also got the warning on the App saying "!Could not charge!" or something like that.

When the power to an EVSE that's plugged into an EV is suddenly interrupted, the charging session is ended abnormally which results in an error message like you saw.

 

[trumpetdoug]

Well, we had a loose neutral in a outlet in the house (same circuit as the one in the garage) The smell coming from the garage is still a mystery.

Had to drive about 75 miles yesterday and it drove and performed like new. No issues. I'm chalking this up to dodging a bullet. I appreciate all the great help and comments here.

Electrician coming in the next couple of weeks to install a 40 amp charger.

Question:

Should I just go-ahead and have the charger hard-wired in? Seems to make sense to me and the electrician seemed to think that might be safer.

Any recs for one to fit the bill? Would like it to be programable.

 

[skeptic]

For a charger inside your garage where nobody can come along and unplug it and steal it, I don't really see the advantage for hardwired. If anything, I'd have them wire in a 14-50 socket then buy a charger you plug into it. Functionality and safety should be pretty much the same, but if you ever need to replace it, dies or you just want something different, you move or you just want to take it somewhere, you can just unplug it.

 

[eNate]

I'd hard wire it unless you have something else to plug in occasionally, such as an air compressor or a welder. Really, in the event you had to swap it out, hard wiring is just a matter of a cover plate and three wire nuts. It's also less material, and potentially a more secure connection. But ultimately, no difference.

Working on my house (full rebuild / re-wire), I noticed the microwave was tripping the breaker when a contractor I hired to frame my garage would fire up the circular saw. Odd, because he was plugged in to a entirely different electrical panel! So he asked his electrician to take a peek, and we found that the neutral to the house had come detached at the weathercap!!! This could have been this way for months.

How strong was the smell? Like "warm plastic" like maybe a computer smells when it's running hard, or "acrid?"

 

[jadnashuanh]

A thermal camera is really handy for this sort of investigation. The prices have come down a lot in the last few years. A remote sensing device is good, too, but you need to be more careful since their coverage is more of a point.

 

[trumpetdoug]

I'd hard wire it unless you have something else to plug in occasionally, such as an air compressor or a welder. Really, in the event you had to swap it out, hard wiring is just a matter of a cover plate and three wire nuts. It's also less material, and potentially a more secure connection. But ultimately, no difference.

Working on my house (full rebuild / re-wire), I noticed the microwave was tripping the breaker when a contractor I hired to frame my garage would fire up the circular saw. Odd, because he was plugged in to a entirely different electrical panel! So he asked his electrician to take a peek, and we found that the neutral to the house had come detached at the weathercap!!! This could have been this way for months.

How strong was the smell? Like "warm plastic" like maybe a computer smells when it's running hard, or "acrid?"

The smell was odd and not familiar to me if I'm being honest. That's why I figured it was related to the car. I'll probably take the car in soon to have them check it over. Still under warranty. Thanks for the reply here.

 

[3pete]

Should I just go-ahead and have the charger hard-wired in?

My two-cents is to go the 14-50 plug route. It allows you--or the future homeowner if you move-- a little more flexibility and convenience to use the outlet for something else (welder, RV etc.). Unless you're unplugging and plugging the EVSE back in every day, the plug connection shouldn't be a safety concern compared to hard-wire.

Any recs for one to fit the bill?

I have a Juicebox 40 and am pleased with it so far. It has all the smarts (and then some) you could probably want in an EVSE. Incidentally, I'm being sent a warranty replacement unit for a minor issue that I could live with if it wasn't covered under warranty and am glad that swapping out the units will be super easier since it's a plug+outlet install.

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, having an EVSE in your home coming soon, if not already present, will be a selling point. The electrician that put mine in told me that in some areas, all new homes must be already wired for one, per code amendment there. A newer home may also more easily support a higher powered EVSE, and you may not want your old one anyways. Our i3, at least in the USA, can only handle about 7400W, but there are other vehicles you can buy today that can handle significantly more on a level 2 unit. Now, for many, as long as it is recharged overnight, it doesn't really matter, and a smaller unit may suffice. It's when you come home with a nearly depleted battery and want to go out again where, if you don't have CCS available somewhere near, that a larger EVSE (and corresponding capacity in the car!) becomes important.

I'm not positive about the code implications, but technically, it would be possible to hardwire your unit, but also have a plug on the same circuit so if you wanted to run a welder, or something similar, as long as you didn't try to run them both at the same time, you could without plugging in and removing things often. Some EVSE units can be tweaked to limit their output, so say you had a welder than needed 20A, if you adjusted the EVSE to indicate all it had was 20a, you'd never have an issue. A welder, not being a constant use item, doesn't (I don't think) need to adhere to the 80% rule than an EVSE does.

Frequent plugging and unplugging anything into a receptacle tends to weaken the spring contacts. On a higher current device, any slight resistance will create heat, also messing with the tempering of the contacts. Anything you lose in heat is basically reducing your efficiency, so a solid, proper hard-wired connection is both safer and it's often cheaper to buy the unit as well (not much, but hey!). Should you really want a plug-in version, you could disconnect the pigtail and install a new one with a plug on it, or just screw on a plug to the pigtail of the unit you removed. That's probably not more than a 10-minute job to make the swap. Certainly longer than just pulling out the plug! But, how often do you really do that? I think on many, it's wishful thinking that they'll use that capability as where you're going may not have a plug that you can reach and still power up the car. I suppose if you towed your i3 to a campground, you might use it regularly, but for most, that's seasonal at best.