New Fob for +$500 or what else could I try ?

[alohart]

Back in the day, a key was $10, an early chip-key might have been $20, and a separate remote (just for door locking/unlocking) another $20.

Back in my day, a 3-month-old used 1965 425 hp Corvette Stingray convertible cost me less than $5k. However, my Corvette was stolen because it was easy for a thief to start with its keyed ignition switch. Vehicles have made a lot of security progress and there's been lots of inflation since then, so everything feels expensive.

Then they decided to get rid of the physical keylock (which saved them money) and now (since you can no longer just go to a locksmith to replace a key), they can get away with $300-500 for one of these stupid things.

You probably know that the i3 still has a keyed driver door lock and a physical key in its fob, so BMW didn't save much money in this way. I forgot that when a replacement fob is ordered, a new physical key must be ground for the driver door lock which adds to the fob's cost.

 

[tob1as]

Wow, some pretty emotional reactions here ... it's kind of like an expensive pair of sunglasses versus the street vendor version. It's a lot less likely that you will lose a $400 key as opposed to a $40 key. I bought my i3 used and the prior lessee (or someone else in the custody chain) managed to lose the second key. (I am leaning toward the lessee, because we found a singular running shoe under the driver seat, and this was after the car went from California to the Arizona dealer we bought the car from, and then to Colorado, assuming there must have been at least a couple detailing efforts as part of the process).
The part of getting the replacement key that was most annoying to me was that the independent (BMW certified) mechanic I took the car to, messed up the programming and bricked the fob in the process (likely because they treated it the same way as any other run of the mill BMW fob), and I ended up having to make another trip to a BMW dealer.
Finally, we can't forget that this is the same key as for the i8 (we don't even have an i3 icon on it), so proportionately to that car the price of this key is just peanuts. ... and don't get me started on us (in the USA) being denied the "optional" button that the European version gets, that people use for the remote start option in many cases, I believe.

 

[EvanstonI3]

One of the advantages of using the Dealer for this is that they can DISABLE the missing fob so whoever has it cannot use it on your car in the future.

 

[turns2stone]

To me, the high cost of an i3 fob is worth the security that leads to this cost. A human must process a fob purchase request and verify one's driver license and registration which take time ($$). Each i3 is limited to a fixed number of fobs during its lifetime, so someone must update a database to reduce one of the available fobs. The new fob must be programmed to the i3's VIN, probably also by a human, and then packed and shipped by a human. So there's a considerable labor cost associated with buying a fob.

I predict that any class action suit would fail when BMW explains the cost of security.

While I’m not doubting that any of these are genuine costs, it’s not a customer-friendly approach. I can buy (essentially) and unlimited amounts of Tesla keycards @ $20 each, and they’re just as secure as a BMW fob. Never have I wished my keycard had a lock button, that’s what phones are for ha.

 

[turns2stone]

One of the advantages of using the Dealer for this is that they can DISABLE the missing fob so whoever has it cannot use it on your car in the future.

The registered owner of the car should have access to do this. Again it’s a feature Tesla supports, so BMW should too.

 

[tob1as]

The registered owner of the car should have access to do this. Again it’s a feature Tesla supports, so BMW should too.

Also own a Tesla Model Y, and while I appreciate the ease of use of the Tesla approach, it does raise tons of privacy questions... I like the anonymity my i3 avails me -- especially with Muskolini showing his true colors lately (even appreciate the lack of cameras in the BMW these days ...)

 

[Whereitis]

To me, the high cost of an i3 fob is worth the security that leads to this cost. A human must process a fob purchase request and verify one's driver license and registration which take time ($$). Each i3 is limited to a fixed number of fobs during its lifetime, so someone must update a database to reduce one of the available fobs. The new fob must be programmed to the i3's VIN, probably also by a human, and then packed and shipped by a human. So there's a considerable labor cost associated with buying a fob.

I predict that any class action suit would fail when BMW explains the cost of security.

I suggested the class action suit against all carmakers, not just BMW. But you're probably right, it will never happen. It's just frustrating to see them deliver a complicated solution to a simple problem. I was once in the auto security biz, employed by the company that introduced the first commercially sold remote starters in the US. Within a few years, a high-end security system that would remotely lock/unlock the doors, start the car, roll the windows up and down from outside the car, pop the trunk, and of course prevent theft, could be had fully installed with a lifetime warranty for less than the cost of one of these keyfobs. My gf wanted to add a remote starter to a BMW X3 she once owned, and due to the car's design you couldn't buy a $199 system like the one I got for my Honda at the time, could only use theirs, and they were $1500. Needless to say, she lived without it. And so it goes...

 

[markandyeda]

This really pisses me off. You should be able to buy a $40 fob and make it work, but they have some software that prevents it. I "got a deal" on the one I bought from the (used car) dealer I bought my i3 from. They only got me for $400, then I had to provide my license and registration to prove it was actually my car, then wait weeks for the factory to send the fob to the dealer, who then shipped it to me (to save me a drive back to the dealer to pick it up). All because my i3 only had one fob when I bought it and I wanted a spare. I predict a class action suit will one day put an end to the practice, but most likely not in my lifetime.

I have the same issue. I bought two used i3 fobs off of eBay believing that I would be able to register them to my car using the Auto MaxiSys MS906 BT scanner. I went through through the programming steps and kept getting the message that the key couldn't be found but that I could program it manually. The problem is, I cam't find any documentation anywhere that shows how to enter the codes manually. So far, I am stuck with two perfectly good fobs that are useless.

 

[mojo]

I have the same issue. I bought two used i3 fobs off of eBay believing that I would be able to register them to my car using the Auto MaxiSys MS906 BT scanner. I went through through the programming steps and kept getting the message that the key couldn't be found but that I could program it manually. The problem is, I cam't find any documentation anywhere that shows how to enter the codes manually. So far, I am stuck with two perfectly good fobs that are useless.

There does still seem to be a thriving trade in useless secondhand i3 and i8 keys on Ebay!

I doubt anyone outside BMW knows exactly how they are protected, but my guess is that they use a cryptographic function to sign the key data (using a private key that only BMW knows) and the key registration process checks to make sure that the signature is correct.

Probably best to just stick one back on Ebay and keep the other for parts in case you damage your existing key?

 

[Stevick]

Just to recap some of the discussion, a key fob with the exact same design, circuitry, etc. can be had for ~$40 in the aftermarket. BMW, by policy choice, will not program these, as would be required to make them functional. However, they will sell you one that they program for over $600 (which establishes that they have the ability to program them). Yes, some of the cost to BMW is labor (lookup of the VIN, verifying ownership, logging the number of fobs provided, disabling lost keys, etc.), but we're not talking highly skilled labor here, and likely minutes not hours. While I appreciate the security technology, I'm just not seeing a justification for the exorbitant cost.

A few years ago, I needed a replacement key/fob combination for my E38. Same situation - very inexpensive replacements were available in the aftermarket, but BMW would not program the ISN. It provided the same basic functions as the i3 fob. For the dealer replacement, VIN lookup, ownership verification, etc. was also necessary for it to be ordered, but the cost was only around $150 - not in the unreasonable range.

I see no material difference between the two that justifies the difference in cost. Thus, I must conclude they charge so much more for the i3 fob for no other reason than they CAN, with impunity, by foreclosing alternatives. It's anti-competitive behavior, pure and simple, detrimental to its customers, and sadly, it's not limited to their key fobs. Don't get me wrong, I love the cars, I am just having more and more disdain for their corporate ways.

BTW, as noted earlier, my local dealer recently quoted $642.58 with tax ($600.43 before tax). Online, at thebmwminipartstore.com, the exact same items (remote & pre-cut key) are currently $407.22 shipped (no tax). Does anything other than gouging by my local dealer explain that difference?

 

[Mondomensch]

BTW, as noted earlier, my local dealer recently quoted $642.58 with tax ($600.43 before tax). Online, at thebmwminipartstore.com, the exact same items (remote & pre-cut key) are currently $407.22 shipped (no tax). Does anything other than gouging by my local dealer explain that difference?

Internet vs bricks and mortar

 

[Stevick]

Their B&M parts dept. is a sunk cost, supporting their service dept. And its not as if they have it in inventory - they have to order it too.

 

[mojo]

Just to recap some of the discussion, a key fob with the exact same design, circuitry, etc. can be had for ~$40 in the aftermarket. BMW, by policy choice, will not program these, as would be required to make them functional. However, they will sell you one that they program for over $600 (which establishes that they have the ability to program them). Yes, some of the cost to BMW is labor (lookup of the VIN, verifying ownership, logging the number of fobs provided, disabling lost keys, etc.), but we're not talking highly skilled labor here, and likely minutes not hours. While I appreciate the security technology, I'm just not seeing a justification for the exorbitant cost.

I can see your argument but... we have to pick our battles (against corporate profiteering) and this is one that you're least likely to win, IMO. BMW are likely to argue that making it impossible for anyone to clone a key just by using ISTA (or some similar tool), in the car, on the side of the road, makes car security much more robust - and they would have a point.

You would probably have more luck trying to take action against - for example - VAG group's "Component Protection" feature (a.k.a. "VW/Audi Dealer Profit Protection") which is designed to make re-use of control modules in their cars impossible without dealer involvement.

And you do also have to consider the alternative to exorbitant parts cost, and that is: zero parts availability. You have to wonder what the situation on parts will be like for the owner of a 2025 Maxus MIFA9, or any other Chinese manufactured automobile, in 10 years time. The attitude towards spare parts among Chinese export manufacturers in recent years has been pretty consistent: they almost never stock any spare parts at all...

 

[Stevick]

I can see your argument but... we have to pick our battles (against corporate profiteering) and this is one that you're least likely to win, IMO. BMW are likely to argue that making it impossible for anyone to clone a key just by using ISTA (or some similar tool), in the car, on the side of the road, makes car security much more robust - and they would have a point.

I'm a retired lawyer, so I have no delusions about winning any legal battles here, I'm just venting. The point was really that BMW's supply cost of a fob is (or should be) miniscule compared to their list price. They could sell it for a significantly lower price, make a reasonable profit, and retain control over security in activations, so the argument you suppose BMW would offer to support their profiteering is weak at best. This battle is best waged on the PR front.

And you do also have to consider the alternative to exorbitant parts cost, and that is: zero parts availability.

What I advocate and expect is a third alternative to accepting exorbitantly-priced parts or zero availability, namely, parts made available during a product's reasonable life expectancy for a fair and reasonable price (in relation to production/supply cost). Moreover, if offering reasonably-priced parts during or past the warranty period is an economic burden to BMW, and profiteering is not their objective, why not at least provide the proprietary coding/programming service support at the dealerships for OEM, aftermarket, and used electronics supplied by third parties to a customer?

 

[turns2stone]

Just got a quote from my BMW dealer to get a 2nd key for the i3 I just bought.

$638 + tax for the key
AND $135 for programming

 

[alohart]

BMW, by policy choice, will not program these, as would be required to make them functional.

From security and functionality perspectives, I can understand why BMW would not want to program a fob of unknown origin.

However, they will sell you one that they program for over $600 (which establishes that they have the ability to program them). Yes, some of the cost to BMW is labor (lookup of the VIN, verifying ownership, logging the number of fobs provided, disabling lost keys, etc.), but we're not talking highly skilled labor here, and likely minutes not hours. While I appreciate the security technology, I'm just not seeing a justification for the exorbitant cost.

It's not easy to justify the $210+ cost of an OEM i3 12 V battery at my BMW dealer. There's the BMW tax that applies to all BMW parts plus the BMW dealer markup, both of which can be substantial. At least with the 12 V battery, purchase alternatives exist elsewhere. However, that's not true for many BMW parts, a fob being one example.

A few years ago, I needed a replacement key/fob combination for my E38. Same situation - very inexpensive replacements were available in the aftermarket, but BMW would not program the ISN. It provided the same basic functions as the i3 fob. For the dealer replacement, VIN lookup, ownership verification, etc. was also necessary for it to be ordered, but the cost was only around $150 - not in the unreasonable range.

I see no material difference between the two that justifies the difference in cost. Thus, I must conclude they charge so much more for the i3 fob for no other reason than they CAN, with impunity, by foreclosing alternatives.

Are there alternatives for a replacement E38 fob? What would a BMW dealer charge for an E38 fob? I'm guessing that it would be about the same price as an i3 fob today.

BTW, as noted earlier, my local dealer recently quoted $642.58 with tax ($600.43 before tax). Online, at thebmwminipartstore.com, the exact same items (remote & pre-cut key) are currently $407.22 shipped (no tax). Does anything other than gouging by my local dealer explain that difference?

Having apparently been a BMW owner for some time, you can't be surprised by a significant BMW dealer markup. I try to avoid BMW dealers whenever I can because I know I'll pay more for parts and service than I would elsewhere. Fortunately, over 11 years of i3 ownership, I haven't had to buy any part or pay for any service at a BMW dealer.

 

[alohart]

Just got a quote from my BMW dealer to get a 2nd key for the i3 I just bought.

$638 + tax for the key

You should be able to order one for ~$400 from an online BMW dealer.

AND $135 for programming

You should be able to "program" the new fob yourself avoiding the dealer's $135 fee for probably less than 10 minutes of labor:

Newer BMW Models With Key Fob Remote​

1. Unlock your vehicle with a working key fob or with the physical key in your key fob remote.
2. Get into your BMW and ensure that there are no other key fobs in your vehicle, including any existing ones.
3. Locate the key symbol on the side of your steering column.
4. Place your new key fob on the key symbol on the side of your steering column.
5. While holding the key fob on the steering column, put your foot on the brake (or clutch if you’ve got a BMW with a manual transmission) and start your vehicle using the start button.
6. If equipped, your BMW iDrive system will prompt you to put a name to the key you just used to start your vehicle.

 

[Stevick]

From security and functionality perspectives, I can understand why BMW would not want to program a fob of unknown origin.

You got me there, because I sure can't understand it. The owner, who chooses the alternative, is the only party whose security might be affected. No doubt if there was a concern there, BMW would be sure to try to dissuade the owner by exaggerating the exceedingly minor risk involved, if any. As for functionality, no doubt BMW would disclaim a warranty for the service, and personally, I could live with that for the cost savings. Ultimately, the owner is the only one having any risk and the owner should be able to have the choice.

Are there alternatives for a replacement E38 fob? What would a BMW dealer charge for an E38 fob? I'm guessing that it would be about the same price as an i3 fob today.

Similar to the i3, alternatives for the E38 key/fob can be had cheap, easily $15 or less. Unfortunately, you still need the car-matched transponder chip and have the key cut to make it work in the ignition, and there are no alternatives to the dealer for that (except for key cutting). As mentioned, the dealer charged me ~$150 for the fully functional E38 replacement key (with integrated fob) a few years ago. The same online dealer I noted above lists it for $237 today, which IMO is the reasonable range - and still a good bit less in price than the i3 fob.

Having apparently been a BMW owner for some time, you can't be surprised by a significant BMW dealer markup. I try to avoid BMW dealers whenever I can because I know I'll pay more for parts and service than I would elsewhere. Fortunately, over 11 years of i3 ownership, I haven't had to buy any part or pay for any service at a BMW dealer.

You've misconstrued my reaction, it was outrage, not surprise. I too avoid the dealer like the plague for precisely the same reason as you, but the problem I have highlighted is that all too often, and by design, BMW has made alternatives either difficult or impossible.
.

 

[turns2stone]

You should be able to order one for ~$400 from an online BMW dealer.

You should be able to "program" the new fob yourself avoiding the dealer's $135 fee for probably less than 10 minutes of labor:

Newer BMW Models With Key Fob Remote​

1. Unlock your vehicle with a working key fob or with the physical key in your key fob remote.
2. Get into your BMW and ensure that there are no other key fobs in your vehicle, including any existing ones.
3. Locate the key symbol on the side of your steering column.
4. Place your new key fob on the key symbol on the side of your steering column.
5. While holding the key fob on the steering column, put your foot on the brake (or clutch if you’ve got a BMW with a manual transmission) and start your vehicle using the start button.
6. If equipped, your BMW iDrive system will prompt you to put a name to the key you just used to start your vehicle.

But if you go this route, you don’t have the metal key cut to match your vehicle, right?