New battery tech

[CanisLupus]

How about a receptacle in the front of the car and a supported 'Bus Bar' type connector that slides into it horizontally ? I think another issue with the huge power draws on future chargers is how well the connections contact or are held together . As I have mentioned , some type of clamping action could be done either by the connector or maybe by the vehicle receptacle .

 

[tjburbach]

One interesting article I read said that a well-designed inductive charging system can actually exceed the efficiency of a wired one, at up to 97% efficiency, but that only works on acv, not dcv.

What article was that? That seems very unlikely to be true.

 

[jadnashuanh]

One interesting article I read said that a well-designed inductive charging system can actually exceed the efficiency of a wired one, at up to 97% efficiency, but that only works on acv, not dcv.

What article was that? That seems very unlikely to be true.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1119579_wireless-charging-could-widen-efficiency-edge-over-cords-suggests-doe-lab

They claim 97% efficiency has been achieved.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Honda announced this week that they're working on fluoride ion battery tech that can boost LiOn battery capacity (per volume) by 10x. Older versions of that type of battery required heating them up to around 300-degrees, not something viable in a car. They're also non-flammable, so safer in that view. The key is developing low temperature operation and a viable electrode.

Now, take the original i3's battery, bump that up 10x in the same volume and that would be a game changer. Or, use less of that available volume for other things (what, I'm not sure) and your options would grow rapidly. Now, charging one up would almost certainly require CCS on a trip, but you could still recharge it more often so the timing wouldn't be unreasonable from your home EVSE, I suppose.

Think about some of the existing or soon to be released plug-in hybrids right now with limited range...bump that up 10x, or take away the penalty often seen by decreasing luggage capacity and again, a game changer.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Seems that Toyota and Panasonic have formally signed an agreement to produce LiOn batteries. Their goal is to also continue to develop SS versions. Planning factories with enough capacity for over 5 million vehicles per year. They plan to share some of the output with some, including Subaru and Honda. Others may get involved as well.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Flow batteries are starting to show up in the news a bit more lately. If you're not familiar with them, when the battery runs down, you essentially flush out the electrolyte and pump in some new. In theory, it takes about the same time as refilling a typical ICE. Maybe every 30K miles or so, you also have to replace the electrodes, but that's supposedly a quick and easy thing, too.

More than one company is working on this, so it could show up eventually. Yet another infrastructure issue, but instead of hours to recharge, it would be minutes.

 

[TheMK]

Any speculation as to how much an electrolyte flush might cost? I assume the used electrolyte could be refurbished, so if you always exchanged electrolytic fluid, that might bring the cost down, but if capacitors, and current batteries are anything to go by, enough electrolytic fluid to power an EV for a reasonable amount of range is going to be expensive.

Personally, I believe that rechargeable batteries are still the answer- the distribution infrastructure, mains electricity, is already built out. I understand there are definitely concerns about the re-charge rate, and their is an upper limit as to the practicality of high current to recharge battery packs quickly,

 

[Oleksiy]

Flow batteries are starting to show up in the news a bit more lately. If you're not familiar with them, when the battery runs down, you essentially flush out the electrolyte and pump in some new. In theory, it takes about the same time as refilling a typical ICE. Maybe every 30K miles or so, you also have to replace the electrodes, but that's supposedly a quick and easy thing, too.

More than one company is working on this, so it could show up eventually. Yet another infrastructure issue, but instead of hours to recharge, it would be minutes.

It's an exciting prospect if true, in my opinion. I believe that it would be possible to both charge the electrolyte at home using some device or via "in-car" charging port and replace it at "gas" stations.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The articles I've read say that as they tweak things, the cost to 'recharge' via an electrolyte flush is approaching the cost of a typical ICE tank fill up. It's going to be awhile before they work the kinks out, and then, you need infrastructure. Today's gas stations are already up on storing and supplying liquids. They'd also need to have a quick and easy 'dump' site for the electrolyte. From what I've read so far, yes, you can recycle the stuff, it isn't a one-time use. I don't know if you would have the same capability to recharge at home, but it seems like that may be part of the scheme...by precharging the electrolyte, you gain all of the benefits of an ICE with a tank refill in speed, though, which is a big deal if you're going to go longer distance. Bigger batteries, regardless of the power available, means longer times to recharge. While there are prototype 350Kw CCS units being tested, it takes a HUGE energy storage or similarly huge power line to handle that peak power...swapping charged electrolyte offloads that huge peak load into a production line type environment. Something that could more easily be done during off-peak power loading and cheaper costs. Even one of those fast CCS units won't get you to 100%...it must slow down to complete the top off. Flushing all of the old electrolyte out and replacing it with new means 100% charge once the thing is topped off at the pump...just like an ICE...you're good to go max distance. There should be no degradation. The electrodes are said to be replaceable whenever (some have said 30K mile intervals), but that will likely change as things evolve.

They're working on increasing energy density and probably other things while also bringing the price down and reliability up. The concept for this type of battery has been around for a fairly long time, but making it economically feasible for mass production as a commodity has only started to become a focus fairly recently. In theory, periodically replacing the electrodes and flushing the electrolyte should also mean NO battery degradation at all.