Leasing new 2018 model vs buying 2016 model

[davinci1490]

Hi all, I am new here but I am not new to EV cars.
My previous car was 2012 leaf. Bought used in 2015 for 14000, paid it off. Now the battery is less than 50 miles at full charge. It was such a waste of money. And now the car is worth less than 4000.
With that in mind, I am debating if I should get a used 2016 i3 around 20,000 or just go with lease a 2018. If it would end up like i3 in 3 years, then I would be wasting all the money on paying car loan again.
So my question is that is it worth to buy a used i3? how much could they be worth in 2020?

Any advice on this would be highly appreciated!

 

[viking79]

Your leaf depreciation is pretty typical of any car, maybe a little steeper. Especially if you paid near KBB Retail Price in 2015. Is $4k the trade in? Private party is more like $6,500? It is just how these cars are.

If you buy an i3 BEV it will see similarly bad depreciation as its range will also be outclassed by new cars in 2020 for less money than now. The i3 Rex will always be worth a premium due to ability to drive long distance on gas for when battery degrades out of warranty.

However, has your leaf dropped range enough to get the battery exchanged under warranty?

 

[jadnashuanh]

Nissan had and still has probably the least sophisticated battery temperature (and therefore life) management of any of the more popular EVs out there...it is essentially air cooled where most of the others from bit manufacturers are liquid cooled and heated (generally via electric). A Leaf in say Phoenix probably wouldn't keep much range on its battery. Even their newest one, if I read the review properly, says that you can only do ONE high voltage DC charge during a trip, or you have to wait hours for things to cool off.

The i3 has an 8-year warranty on the battery that states it will retain AT LEAST 70% of the original capacity within 8-years, or it will be replaced under warranty. It's almost like you're talking apples and oranges. The i3 can actually get out of its own way, too.

 

[davinci1490]

Your leaf depreciation is pretty typical of any car, maybe a little steeper. Especially if you paid near KBB Retail Price in 2015. Is $4k the trade in? Private party is more like $6,500? It is just how these cars are.

If you buy an i3 BEV it will see similarly bad depreciation as its range will also be outclassed by new cars in 2020 for less money than now. The i3 Rex will always be worth a premium due to ability to drive long distance on gas for when battery degrades out of warranty.

However, has your leaf dropped range enough to get the battery exchanged under warranty?

That is a very good point about the REX. I am not a fan of the idea about having gas but what you said is a key point that i need to consider.

My leaf still has 9 bars for the capacity so unfortunately it is not quality for exchange under warranty ((

 

[davinci1490]

Nissan had and still has probably the least sophisticated battery temperature (and therefore life) management of any of the more popular EVs out there...it is essentially air cooled where most of the others from bit manufacturers are liquid cooled and heated (generally via electric). A Leaf in say Phoenix probably wouldn't keep much range on its battery. Even their newest one, if I read the review properly, says that you can only do ONE high voltage DC charge during a trip, or you have to wait hours for things to cool off.

The i3 has an 8-year warranty on the battery that states it will retain AT LEAST 70% of the original capacity within 8-years, or it will be replaced under warranty. It's almost like you're talking apples and oranges. The i3 can actually get out of its own way, too.

wow 8 year is a lot Well does it mean that it would be better to buy a 2016 not 2015 then? it could be 2000-3000 cheaper for a 2015 model. I am not sure if the extra one year warranty would worth that much money.

Thanks!

 

[BMW4Me]

I would not recommend getting the i3 without the updated battery pack from 2017. I owned a 2014 i3 and I was constantly needing to charge. In the cold winter I didn't even know if I'd have 50 miles of range or less! Get the latest battery and you'll be driving much more between charges!

 

[johnnylingo]

There's no fundamental difference between the 2015 and 2016 models. IMO, either way, you'll find yourself craving longer range and I'd go with the cheaper 2015. The depreciation on them seems to have leveled out and even if you only keep it for a year, you don't be out all that much money.

But if you're OK with a $400/mo zero down lease payment, I'd go with a 2018. Everyone's range situation is different but for me having 100+ miles with the REx as backup is a game-changer as I can go all around the Bay Area in a single day with only one charging stop.

 

[EVMan]

Hi all, I am new here but I am not new to EV cars.
My previous car was 2012 leaf. Bought used in 2015 for 14000, paid it off. Now the battery is less than 50 miles at full charge. It was such a waste of money. And now the car is worth less than 4000.
With that in mind, I am debating if I should get a used 2016 i3 around 20,000 or just go with lease a 2018. If it would end up like i3 in 3 years, then I would be wasting all the money on paying car loan again.
So my question is that is it worth to buy a used i3? how much could they be worth in 2020?

Any advice on this would be highly appreciated!

I would definitely consider a used one at the correct price , but i feel the 20K needs to come down further for sure for the i3.
There are some hidden costs with lease as well, like insurance costs for new car and if you have minor accidents.

 

[sipabit]

Hi all, I am new here but I am not new to EV cars.
My previous car was 2012 leaf. Bought used in 2015 for 14000, paid it off. Now the battery is less than 50 miles at full charge. It was such a waste of money. And now the car is worth less than 4000.
With that in mind, I am debating if I should get a used 2016 i3 around 20,000 or just go with lease a 2018. If it would end up like i3 in 3 years, then I would be wasting all the money on paying car loan again.
So my question is that is it worth to buy a used i3? how much could they be worth in 2020?

Any advice on this would be highly appreciated!

1. The original generation Leaf had old technology. It was first to the race but was out dated quickly as the competition came on board. There's no reason for concern of having the same experience repeated on a different car. Battery technology is vastly different.
2. We are in a very unique situation with why the used 2015 i3's are priced the way they are and we may not see all the stars align again to give us this opportunity to pick one up. I consider the 2015 i3 the best value used EV of 2018. I've elaborated on that in different threads. Don't want to throw off the topic here. if your'e getting a used one, the best value will be a 2015. I only got the 2016 b/c I wanted the limited edition interior of the Value package that was only made from April to June of 2016. There's little other reason to get the 2016 over the 2015 which is priced a lot better. These cars are typically second vehicles for most previous owners which is the reason that anything more than 20k miles on a 2015 is considered high. The 2016 still has the smaller battery. As far as buying a 2016 (even though I wouldn't recommend that as a I stated) vs leasing a 2018, it really depends on how long you plan to keep the car. If I'm reading you right, you're in for a deal and tempted to buy one buy am just worried about deja vu of reliving the poor experience you had and for that reason (and maybe the only reason) considering leasing a current model. If that's the case, then it's literally a matter of how long you plan to keep the car.

If you plan to keep the car for only the duration of a lease, then do that. If you plan to keep it longer, then I'd buy. Again, we're in a unique situation with the i3 pricing the way it is. You should take advantage of it if you find that it works for you. The car isn't for everyone, but it's for more people than who will admit.

 

[jadnashuanh]

I bought my 2014 right after they became available. WOrks fine. It only has about 13K miles on it, when I get home, it gets plugged in, and sits there. The estimated range is still in the 80-mile range. It was cooler a couple of days ago, the car said 69-miles when I got in then I drove 14-miles, and it said 71...the estimation is not always correct, but you get a feel for it and where you'll be driving after awhile. Normally, I don't need more than about 35-40 miles. If I'm going to be going much further, I take my ICE. I might stretch it out to an anticipated 70-miles if it won't be high speed highway miles. It's not let me down yet. Drives like new, looks like new, expect it to last a number of additional years, so I am not worrying about depreciation. If it continues along as it has, I could own this thing for more than 10-years. I don't NEED a bigger battery. By then, there will be lots of options, but unless it starts to give me grief on service issues, I'll just keep it. If it were a REx, the additional maintenance and complexity, I'd probably have not bought it and opted for a different hybrid.

Seriously consider how much range you need and how often, plus, if you have an alternative. That can make the decision on a BEV verses the REx easier. I opted for the more efficient, lighter, simpler BEV, but your needs may differ both functionally and financially. Adding 10% more to the vehicle weight has it's detrimental effects if you don't need it.

 

[i3Houston]

If you prefer to buy, like me, buy one with REX at least, i have rarely used rex but with it I can drive any distance( should i switch job i dont have to change car!! ). The car will go at least 100 miles in before refueling or recharging in extreme hot/cold weather. I think that makes i3 Rex pretty future proof.

I bought a 2015 i3 Rex Giga+all options with 13K miles on it for little over $20K. I had dealer do the oil change etc. Tires looked good. Ones without Rex were about $2k less at least.

The next service is scheduled is March 2020, that i really like. So far only Oil sensor had been replaced under warranty(common problem in 2015 i3 rex) BMW sent a letter that they will cover that part for next 10 years/120K miles, which was nice surprise.

Pay attention to when your car was manufactured, after mid 2015 have less or no issues unlike 2014.
My i3 is model year 2015, its was first sold in dec 2015 and that is when the warranty started, so it will carry bumper to bumper warranty until 2020 dec.

Good luck!

 

[davidc18]

Just picked up a 2016 BEV with just over 10,000 miles. The range is not an issue for us as all of our driving is local. We have a level 2 charger at home and there are many local charging options.

 

[JCPLA]

do you mind if i asked how much you paid for the 2016 BEV? I am also in the market for one.

although I am having some trouble deciding whether to get a new 2018 or an used 2016. I was going to get a super low mileage (6000 miles!) 2016 for about 20k, Preowned, not CPO, until I discovered the Costco Auto Program that now in California, BMW offers 10k the sticker price. (supposedly if you are a Costco member you pay Invoice too). Plus the 10k EV tax rebate...with the discounts it currently offers makes it very enticing to consider a new model.

2018: MSRP 51500; Invoice 48500 - 10000 (dealer) - 10000 (EV rebate) = 28500 + 4000 (tax) = 32500 + fees and regist.
2016: 20000 + 2100 (tax) = 21200 + fees and regist

My inclination is to get the used in the meanwhile while waiting on other newer EVs coming out in the next couple of years (driving a Leaf now). But the new one sounds just too good to pass up. Although base on the currently massive depreciation rate of the i3 it might be a bad investment even for 2 years, wheras the 2016 model could go down to 14k by 2020...But with 11k difference I will get a new car; 40 extra miles per charge and all other new things it come with. The only hesitation for the 2016 model is that it is not a CPO and for some, reason it's been sitting on the lot for a couple of months while other cars (CPOs) and lower price but higher mileages were being sold.

Can any of you offer your insight, please?
Thank you!
JCPLA

 

[jadnashuanh]

One thing that has depressed all EVs' resale is the federal tax credit of $7500 (although, not everyone will qualify, unlike a rebate). So, the decision to buy new verses a used one where a new one automatically gets a fairly big discount means the used one's price will be lower. But, unless things are changed, at least two manufacturers federal tax credits volume limits have or will be reached (Tesla and GM), meaning, unless extended, people will start to see their out of pocket cost go up, which, I think, will be reflected in rising prices for their used products. But, also consider that more states may jump in to offer rebates, but you can't count on that. I'm not sure how far behind say Nissan and BMW are. Nissan's EV have been available for longer, but not sure about the total delivered in the USA. The i3 and i8 aren't huge sales, but BMW does offer other plug-in hybrids, so their time may be up in the next year or so before it starts to taper off (hopefully, not before I buy my next one!).

 

[i3Houston]

The only hesitation for the 2016 model is that it is not a CPO and for some, reason it's been sitting on the lot for a couple of months while other cars (CPOs) and lower price but higher mileages were being sold.

Can any of you offer your insight, please?
Thank you!
JCPLA

Ask the dealer the cost to get it CPO if that's the concern. It should be 2k -$3k. Sometime Dealer try to sell non-cpo/as is since out the door cost is less.

Also the car will be under bumper to bumper warranty for 4year/50K miles. If 2016 is sold late in the year, warranty will also be until late 2020.

Both used and new will depreciate, BEVs will depreciate much faster than Rex as time goes, something to keep in mind.

There was an article that said BMW will stop producing i3s in couple years, all i3s depreciate then!!

My advise would be to continue driving Leaf(a solid EV) for another year if you can and next year many many choices will be available to pick from. Easier said then done though!!!

 

[JCPLA]

Nice, I think you hit the nail on the head. I was secretly hoping someone would just tell me to keep on driving the LEAF for another year or two...My leaf is paid off and the battery is still in excellent shape. I do not really need to upgrade. But it is one of those "WANT" vs "NEED" scenario. Although I am afraid that stock might come down and I wanted to at least secure a new ride by selling off some stocks..You see how every decision made is inter-connected?

 

[i3Houston]

Yes indeed! Hang in there!!

 

[jadnashuanh]

I tend to keep my cars until either they piss me off, or I get really bored. I try to do enough research so I don't end up with a dud. As to the first, the few I've dumped started to either cost me more than I felt they should have, or had a feature that wasn't apparent during the test rides or in the reviews (case in point, an Infiniti M35x...lousy sound attenuation that just was plain annoying on a long trip and horrible paint prep - a stone chip causes craters as the paint lost adhesion from the surface). I'd like one car that could take me for a long trip without having to stop to find a charging opportunity but also be able to run around for my normal stuff that didn't need to use gasoline. To achieve that today, I have two cars. I'm sort of hoping the new X5e may fill that bill late next year when it comes out, but will have to see what else may show up in the interim.