Is BMW QA an oxymoron?

[donallen]

I have a 2014 i3 BEV on which I took delivery last January. The car is now in the shop for the second time in a week, this time to replace the EME, because it won't accept a charge from my Clipper Creek HCS-40 or the 120v charger (both report 'Charging fault', indicating a ground fault). The BMW dealer's Level 2 charger was no more successful. If I'm lucky, I'll get the car back next week and this major repair won't have caused more problems (the repair involves removal of the drive motor, because the EME is cleverly mounted on top of it).

The car was in earlier to replace the reflectors on both doors, both of which broke and fell out, and to figure out why the automatic dimmer on the rear-view mirror didn't work (the dealer determined that the connector wasn't seated). This is a $40,000 car and I'm shuttling back and forth to the dealer like it was a 1957 Plymouth? I've had a number of new cars in the last 25 years: four Toyotas (two Camrys and two Priuses) and a VW Jetta diesel wagon, which I still have. This BMW has already, in 3400 miles, been more troublesome than all of those cars COMBINED for the well over 200,000 miles my wife and I drove them.

I am really disappointed in the quality, or lack thereof, of the BMW and if I knew then what I know now, I would never have bought this car. Einstein once said "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice". The i3 appears to be an example of what the Great Man was talking about. In theory, the i3 is an excellent design. In practice, the execution falls short, and I'm not just citing my own experience. Just look at the litany of problems people are reporting with these cars.

 

[Sparky]

My EME was just replaced, it had to be shipped from Germany!

 

[WoodlandHills]

I have posted on this several times in the past: BMW are having trouble consistently building a quality i3. The earlier cars are the worst with many issues, most of which are unique to the specific vehicle like your mirror connector. There are also handling issues with some vehicles being reported as unsafely twitchy with others rebutting by saying THEIRS is as solid as a solid thing which sure seems to point to chassis geometry variations. Just my opinion, but how else can one explain so many conflicting reports?

 

[websterize]

Great Man also said, “a person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.”

With the i3, BMW has tried something very new, perhaps something revolutionary (CFRP construction), and you’re driving the first iteration. I’ve had some problems with my BEV and don’t meant to sound like a BMW apologist, and what you’ve experienced sounds frustrating, but if your local dealer has competent techs, they and BMWNA should make the problems right — and all under warranty.

 

[Sparky]

I feel the same way as you Bill. In fact, BMW Concierge and my dealer were more than willing to start buy back proceedings with my car (recent posts about EME failure). But I love the car and understand this is i3 V1.0 and will have untested issues. I'm hoping that I can go a few years now with no failures like the other Bimmers I've owned. If not, I'll sell it back and wait for 2.0

 

[donallen]

Great Man also said, “a person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.”

With the i3, BMW has tried something very new, perhaps something revolutionary (CFRP construction), and you’re driving the first iteration. I’ve had some problems with my BEV and don’t meant to sound like a BMW apologist, and what you’ve experienced sounds frustrating, but if your local dealer has competent techs, they and BMWNA should make the problems right — and all under warranty.

The CFRP construction has absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing -- failure of the charging system. We have a LOT of experience with charging batteries, even in high-capacity situations (e.g., UPSes for large computer server farms) and with lithium-ion batteries in particular. This, plus reflectors breaking and falling out of the doors and connectors not being properly seating during assembly and then not caught in post-assembly quality assurance tells me that the process in Leipzig is wanting. I would expect a $40,000 car to be better-made than this, especially given my 25 years of experience with the Toyotas and the VW I mentioned in my original post. All Just Work or Worked.

 

[spinball]

I understand your frustration but price has no bearing on the revolutionary construction methods of the i3. Toyota doesn't have anything even remotely similar in construction or efficiency for that matter.

However I do agree price should have an effect on service/repair experience. I feel BMW drops the ball there.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Price should have a bearing on reliability no matter how revolutionary the build process might be.

If the i3 was too advanced to be built with the quality and reliability that one expects in a $40k car than obviously the design is not ready for mass production.

And IF that design is put into production anyway, just to move the industry forward (prove a point), then said manufacturer had better have an exemplary parts and service department and procedures backed up with lots of extra engineering staff to fix the cars post-production.

Does anyone here think that has been the case with the i3? Has anyone heard of a dedicated i3 tech department that deals solely with i3 customer problems? Is there a dedicated i3 parts dept to expedite parts to customers that are stuck w/o their cars for days and even weeks awaiting parts?

It sure looks like BMW expected their existing Warranty and Service systems, processes and manpower to simply add the i3 to their existing workload as if it was just another 3-series.

 

[jadnashuanh]

There's a huge history of knowledge on life cycle of parts in a conventionally built car...decades, in fact. So, it's fairly easy to estimate what is likely to go wrong, and what part(s) to have in stock and ready to replace those that do fail. The i3 is more of a learning experience. Standard practices on estimating the needs for spares has not caught up with reality. But, the parts distribution system does not need to be replaced, and as knowledge on what is breaking and how often, they will be better able to predict. Most car companies are using JIT production methods, which means that there are NO extra parts just sitting around except those that were calculated to be needed...it's not like they can just take one out of the warehouse, it likely does not exist, and this is true for their ICE vehicles as well if something unusual occurs. No company or dealer can afford to keep a supply of every possible part in stock.

NOw, how they treat the customer in the meantime while their car is being repaired, is a totally different issue. Some big parts don't fly well, either, and need to probably go by ship (my guess is that you cannot fly the i3's batteries, but could be wrong).

 

[WoodlandHills]

I am surprised that BMW did not plan ahead and make allowances for the revolutionary tech in the i3 by either having enough parts in the supply line or by being able to ramp up production quickly in response to warranty needs.

One does not have to be a rocket scientist to expect extra issues when introducing such a unique product to the market, but instead BMW planned for everything to be perfect and now are trying to catchup.

In the meantime we see poor communication between dealers and BMWNA, poor communication between dealers and customers, long delays for parts that should have been in stock on the same continent as the car, weeks long delays for CFRP repair instructions for damaged vehicles, etc and etc, on and on.

What a mess: a pretty good EV is in the process of having its introduction ruined by incompetent support by its maker.....

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, not all BMW dealers are certified to be able to repair the CFRP...most of that is the dealer's willingness to spare people for the training. THe dealerships are privately owned businesses (at least in the USA, and BMW does not require them to get the training, but only those that have it can get reimbursed for work done under warranty, or to ensure the warranty is maintained after the work is done.

 

[Boatguy]

There is no question that BMW has QA problems with the i3 that are not related to the technology. I have had problems with pinched wires (manufacturing 101), defective charing door latch (no different than a gas filler door), and the parts are never available. The dealer network is not consistently trained (a flaw with the entire dealer distribution model) nor consistent in their customer support (e.g., I never get an i3 loaner). In the first year of ownership my i3 BEV has been in the shop four different times, each time being 2-3 days.

What is totally unacceptable is that the overall service responsiveness for a $50,000 product is vastly inferior to the service I receive for a $600 iPhone. BMW is utterly clueless about how to roll out a new product and support customers.

I love driving this car because it is small, nimble (short wheelbase tight turning circle) and fast (electric motor - flat torque curve). None of those attributes is unique to BMW and anyone else can built a car with those same attributes.

Apple hooked me on their products from the first iPhone because they stand behind the product, answer my calls and address my problems. BMW has missed that opportunity.

 

[Stevei3]

Hi guys,
we've had our share of issues, like boatguy most of them not essentially 'new tech' related, and some took time to be resolved, but, like I've stated before elsewhere, BMW has been delivering excellent support over here in the Netherlands, at least in our case. The difference in apporach between BMW NL and BMW USA sound startling to me at times.
Regards, Steven

 

[Boatguy]

Hi guys,
we've had our share of issues, like boatguy most of them not essentially 'new tech' related, and some took time to be resolved, but, like I've stated before elsewhere, BMW has been delivering excellent support over here in the Netherlands, at least in our case. The difference in apporach between BMW NL and BMW USA sound startling to me at times.
Regards, Steven

Steve - do they have the same dealer model in The Netherlands? Maybe the proximity to Germany for parts, same time zone for phone support, etc. reduces the problems. BMW USA seems to be well behind on everything.

 

[Stevei3]

Hi Boatguy,
there could be a difference there. BMW Group Nederland is wholly owned by BMW AG, München. Our agent is one of the two large BMW dealerships directly owned and operated by BMW Group Nederland, so one could say our agent is a subsidiary of BMW AG. It is a close as you can get to the system in Germany, where all large ‘Niederlassungen’ are de facto factory outlets. How is BMW USA incorporated ?
Regards, Steven

PS: we’ve had similar (=good) experiences with our other beemers at different dealerships over the years, btw…

 

[Boatguy]

Hi Boatguy,
there could be a difference there. BMW Group Nederland is wholly owned by BMW AG, München. Our agent is one of the two large BMW dealerships directly owned and operated by BMW Group Nederland, so one could say our agent is a subsidiary of BMW AG. It is a close as you can get to the system in Germany, where all large ‘Niederlassungen’ are de facto factory outlets. How is BMW USA incorporated ?
Regards, Steven

PS: we’ve had similar (=good) experiences with our other beemers at different dealerships over the years, btw…

I think BMW USA is probably a subsidiary of BMW AG, but they only sell cars to dealers, not to the public. The dealers are owned and operated by a variety of individuals and larger corporate entities that hold many dealerships across many brands. Our buying experience is more like when you go to the store and buy a bottle of wine, you're not buying it from the winery, but from the local store, or perhaps local store of a large chain of stores.

The model you describe in Germany, and essentially also in The Netherlands, is what Tesla does (and Apple) and provides a vastly superior customer experience. I think this explains a lot of the differences in the customer experience that people report in this forum. Different BMW dealers in the US provide very different customer experiences, and probably none that are as good as a BMW factory outlet in Germany.