Including battery wear level in Used I3 listings

[electronchaser]

So I've been browsing a lot for used I3s'. A lot of friends and family have tested out my car and are interested in grabbing a used unit that works out to 10$ a day, 300$/month @72. Which is cool and all. And I'm trying to help them source the color, trims, options they're interested in which is all easy and stuff. However the biggest and most important unknown is the wear level on the battery.

I'm really surprised that i3 listings don't include any information about battery health. It's like you find the car you want, and then it you've got to get into step two, which is assessing battery condition to see if its worth while. Last thing I want to do is steer a friend to a car that ends up having less range due to a more degraded battery.

A lot of the people that are interested want the REX model for the piece of mind, understandable, but even that is hard to gauge going based off mileage or model year of the i3. You don't know how the prev owners used it, was it minimal battery and mostly rex, or visa versa.

Anyway, I think its a folly for electric cars to be resold, without the most important parameter being included.

Now that I think of it while writing this post. Used I3's should have a rating for battery capacity remaining, and how many hours have been put on the rex. Mileage is so irrelevant.

I'd like to see a shift in thinking when it comes to reselling these cars.

 

[eNate]

I don't disagree with you, it would be so easy to include. I'd be interested in seeing it become the norm.

But why don't internal combustion ads include engine compression values? Or a particular used car's actual average fuel economy?

A detailed private party seller might, but a dealer doesn't want to include anything in an ad that's potentially a negative or could raise questions or doubts about the purchase.

Sellers don't want to educate the buyer on new concepts unrelated to selling the product ("coach" doors, yes; batt kappa, no). They don't want to advertise something that could be a liability later (drive it home, check captivity, see it's 0.5 lower than advertised, want to renegotiate). They definitely don't want to disclose if the capacity is lower than expected. And they realize if they get into battery health even for just the "creme puffs," it's going plant a negative EV concept in buyers'minds and call into question why it's not a value listed for other cars on the lot.

When the day comes to sell my i3, I'll for sure include my kappa in the ad IF its in the normal range. I can even imagine the day when EVs are common enough that battery capacity is reflected in blue book values! But I think we're a ways off. It'll take a groundswell movement or regulation.

 

[electronchaser]

I don't disagree with you, it would be so easy to include. I'd be interested in seeing it become the norm.

But why don't internal combustion ads include engine compression values? Or a particular used car's actual average fuel economy?

A detailed private party seller might, but a dealer doesn't want to include anything in an ad that's potentially a negative or could raise questions or doubts about the purchase.

Sellers don't want to educate the buyer on new concepts unrelated to selling the product ("coach" doors, yes; batt kappa, no). They don't want to advertise something that could be a liability later (drive it home, check captivity, see it's 0.5 lower than advertised, want to renegotiate). They definitely don't want to disclose if the capacity is lower than expected. And they realize if they get into battery health even for just the "creme puffs," it's going plant a negative EV concept in buyers'minds and call into question why it's not a value listed for other cars on the lot.

When the day comes to sell my i3, I'll for sure include my kappa in the ad IF its in the normal range. I can even imagine the day when EVs are common enough that battery capacity is reflected in blue book values! But I think we're a ways off. It'll take a groundswell movement or regulation.

They do, at least in CA. smog every 2 years. If you pass smog, even on a 10 year old ICe, you’re going to be getting 90% of original fuel Econ.

When you say bringing up capacity will plant a negative EV concept, I think that’s looking at it incorrectly. Capacity loss is the norm for anything with a battery. (When I look at used iPhone ads, it usually mentions battery health. )

Current battery capacity is no different than the options on the car.

Especially on Bev models, the pack is essentially your most important variable, more so than if it’s got tech, or terra.

Besides BMW should put some info out there for used i3 buyers, again mileage doesn’t mean much when we don’t know if those miles were rex’d or bev’d, or combination.
I’ve met a guy who says he uses the Rex a few times in the entire year, so the Rex is practically virgin, while his battery is more heavily used.

If EVs are the future, education is paramount, and regulatory reform/consumer protection is overdue. I mean we’re passing regulations on forbidding per minute charge rates, yet we are in the dark about actual capacity.

For example, for a girlfriend, I’ve found 4 i3s that are in the price range, I’m not going to teach her how to do kap check (wouldn’t be realistic). And I surely can’t go see every vehicle with her. So when she asks me which one I would take, I can’t give a proper answer.

 

[alohart]

I'm really surprised that i3 listings don't include any information about battery health.

Battery health is difficult to measure with any precision because it includes usable capacity, electrical resistance, self-discharge rate, etc. Usable capacity varies with temperature and charge/discharge rate. As we've read, the Batt. Kapa. max value varies considerably and can be manipulated using BMW's ISTA+ software (at least for 60 Ah battery packs). I wouldn't trust a published Batt. Kapa. max value for these reasons.

 

[trumpetdoug]

I just bought mine yesterday and never even thought of battery health!

2017 - Rex with 22,000 miles. Thought that was all I needed to know. AARRGGHHH!!!

Doug - out

fingers crossed.

 

[alohart]

I just bought mine yesterday and never even thought of battery health!

The original 60 Ah battery packs seem to be the ones whose health could be failing. 94 Ah battery packs like that in your i3 seem to be doing much better in general. So I wouldn't worry if I were you.

 

[electronchaser]

I just bought mine yesterday and never even thought of battery health!

The original 60 Ah battery packs seem to be the ones whose health could be failing. 94 Ah battery packs like that in your i3 seem to be doing much better in general. So I wouldn't worry if I were you.

Ya, like Art said, your new i3(congrats) should be fine. Even if you say the previous owner was as abusive as me and did just dcfc-ing, for the entire 22k miles, you shouldn't see more than 2kWh degradation in the pack. (6-10 miles lost)

My point is more to bring awareness and hopefully who knows, change...

:idea: If you would be interested, you can look up and post the battery health, it'll be good for you to note, and give others a general idea of wear levels on a 2017.

 

[trumpetdoug]

Not sure how to check my battery health. Any tips?

Doug - out

 

[eNate]

Doug, here's how.

https://youtu.be/tw5i1Ki-RpY

 

[alohart]

Doing, here's how.

Keep in mind that the Batt. Kapa. max value is a calculated value that varies with temperature and other factors that are unclear. It has varied by ~4 kWh over a relatively short period of time for our i3.