I accidentally bought the wrong i3

[chriseddie]

Yesterday I bought a 2014 i3 REx and I absolutely LOVE it so far... except one thing.

I'm embarrassed to say that in all of my research I misunderstood the charging capabilities. I read that Level 3 "fast charging" is available as an option on some 2014 models. When I bought the car I trusted the salesman when he said it was "fast charging" but of course it was not. It is capable of level 1 and level 2 charging.

This is a deal breaker for me! Part of the appeal to the car was to be able to do short trips down the interstate, stopping every couple of hours for a quick 30 minute charge or two.

Since I bought it from a used car lot, I can't return it. My only idea is to sell it outright and start the i3 search over again.

Do you have any suggestions?

 

[EVBob]

I would say code the car, so you can engage the REx early and get the full capacity of the fuel tank and try it out before selling it.

While not being able to do DC charging sucks, it may not be a total deal breaker. During my last 1200 mile trip, I did way more fuel stops than Level 3 charges - its quicker and usually cheaper to refuel 2.4 gallons than to do a level 3 charge. Just have to remember to start the Rex at 75% and keep the i3's energy usage below or close within the max output of the Generator or the battery will eventually slowly drain, requiring a
charge to bring it back to 75%+.

Coding the i3 and trying it for a few weeks shouldn't really reduce its resale value that much ;-) Coding it might actually increase its value to the right buyer

 

[I33t]

Should have looked in the charging port!

The fast charge port is obvious regardless of what a salesesman might say.

 

[EVBob]

Should have looked in the charging port!

The fast charge port is obvious regardless of what a salesesman might say.

....

EVs are new, and there are various charging ports are out there. Its easy to get inundated with just the standards on charging ports especially if you start reading articles for EVs not in your home market (ie SAE vs Mennekes) .. then you have Tesla that only has one physical port that can do levels 1 - 3 that may lead some new shoppers to assume all EVs are like this...New shoppers that haven't had the time to sit and research things fully, get excited buying their 1st EV and things can happen...


In the US, our i3s DC Fast charging port looks a bit different:

In Japan, their I3s forgo the combo charging port and do the Chademo/J1772 thing:

 

[Sparky]

Many states have laws about misrepresenting used car specs. He told you it had fast charge, that's a verbal contract, in California, he'd have to take the car back.

 

[alohart]

Many states have laws about misrepresenting used car specs. He told you it had fast charge, that's a verbal contract, in California, he'd have to take the car back.

Unfortunately, BMW's description of 7.2 kW AC charging is "Fast Charging AC" which his car has. What is missing BMW calls "Fast Charging DC". So it might be difficult to claim a misrepresentation.

 

[jadnashuanh]

What somewhat clouds this is that ALL i3's sold in the USA have 'fast' ac charging. So, fast(er) charging is only available with CCS.

 

[chriseddie]

In the US, our i3s DC Fast charging port looks a bit different:

Wait, what you have pictures is exactly what my i3 port looks like. Does that mean I DO in fact have Level 3 480v DC fast charging? -- If so, I'm going to feel really dumb... and REALLY stoked.

I've tried two different charging stations and both ports looked like this with the flat top:

I also noticed that a lot of i3's use that port too and that BMW's 240v home charge unit has a plug like that. It's ultra confusing! Are there multiple CCS plugs too?

PS thanks for the great responses, everyone. First time Ev'er here trying to make sense of it all.

 

[bwilson4web]

You've posted pictures of a J1772 (North America popular) and Mennekes (EU popular) plug, the ones on top. The bottom, two pin, connectors are used for fast DC charging.

Bob Wilson

 

[alohart]

Wait, what you have pictures is exactly what my i3 port looks like. Does that mean I DO in fact have Level 3 480v DC fast charging? -- If so, I'm going to feel really dumb... and REALLY stoked.

It would help if you entered your location in your profile because different charging protocols exist in different markets. You wrote "interstate" in your original post, so I assume that you are in the U.S.

To help clarify this discussion, there are no Level 3 DC chargers yet. North American charging standards are AC Level 1 (120 VAC), AC Level 2 (208-240 VAC), DC Level 1 (200–450 VDC, <=80 A), and DC Level 2 (200–450 VDC, >80 A and <=200 A). DC Level 3 is under consideration but not finalized. The rest of the world has different charging standards.

To determine the features and options on your i3, enter its VIN here. This option will verify that your car has DC fast charging:

4U7 FAST CHARGING DC

I've tried two different charging stations and both ports looked like this with the flat top:

Either you are in Europe where both AC and DC charging ports have the flat-top port pictured or you are mistaken.

I also noticed that a lot of i3's use that port too and that BMW's 240v home charge unit has a plug like that. It's ultra confusing! Are there multiple CCS plugs too?

The i3's with the flat-top charging port (IEC Type 2) are not North American i3's.

The EVSE included with European i3's is 230 V and has the flat-top charging plug. The EVSE included with North American i3's is 120 V and has the round-top charging plug (IEC Type 1). U.S. BMW dealers have begun selling a dual-voltage portable EVSE that also has the round-top charging plug. The BMW wall-mounted home charger has the charging plug appropriate for the market in which it is sold.

CCS, the Combined Charging System, is capable of both AC and DC charging, but the AC portion is the round-top port in North American and the flat-top port elsewhere. So there are two different AC-only and CCS plugs and ports.

 

[EVBob]

If you have the extra 2 prongs under the the circular plug (either SAE or Mennkes) - you have a combo plug, so you should be able to do DC fast charging. As Alohart mentioned, there are different levels for DC charging...however even at the most basic DC charging at 40kw is still much faster than than the fastest Level 2 charging (7.6kw) the i3 is capable of.

DC charging capability is nice to have, but since you have a REx, may be unnecessary and expensive to use - costs roughly $10-12 per DC charge session. Compared to the roughly 2.3 gallons of gas pricing ($6-7) and being much faster to refuel.

We just completed the 1200 mile trip back home, and only stopped twice to charge the batteries - 1st time before hitting the mountainous areas at 50% SOC (found to be unnecessary, as when we cleared the area, our SOC was at 77% - 2% above the hold) with DC 50kw charging, and the other time staying at a hotel over night at 56% SOC with AC L2 charging.

So...unless you are driving in a very aggressive environment (you have to go over 75 mph and cannot draft a large vehicle) that requires AC or heating continuously - you should be able to avoid the much slower more expensive DC charging and do faster/more affordable gasoline fuel ups.

In the US, our i3s DC Fast charging port looks a bit different:

Wait, what you have pictures is exactly what my i3 port looks like. Does that mean I DO in fact have Level 3 480v DC fast charging? -- If so, I'm going to feel really dumb... and REALLY stoked.

I've tried two different charging stations and both ports looked like this with the flat top:

I also noticed that a lot of i3's use that port too and that BMW's 240v home charge unit has a plug like that. It's ultra confusing! Are there multiple CCS plugs too?

PS thanks for the great responses, everyone. First time Ev'er here trying to make sense of it all.

 

[chriseddie]

Thanks everyone so much for the helpful replies. You've helped me make sense of the twisted web of information and assumptions in my head.

Thanks to Alohart, I was able to confirm I do in fact have DC charge capabilities. BMWVin.com gave me this: S4U7A Rapid charging, direct current. -- As you can imagine, after 3 weeks of owning the car, I'm elated...again.

I think where a lot of my confusion came from (as you can see in my previous posts) was researching online and not being able to decipher between European standards and US standards. Another point of confusion is the wording. As jadnashuanh mentioned, everything is called "fast/rapid/quick charging". Really all I wanted to know is if I was able to charge my car in ~20-45 minutes on the proper "fast charger" for me.

I think what I'm taking away from all of this, as a new EV owner, is an awareness for the need of standardization. I think it's neat that Tesla decided to build their own charging network to support their vehicles, but it's completely self-serving and further muddies the water for lay folks, like myself, to transition to EVs. I can't help but think if there was one universal standard that EV adoption would be a lot more prolific and therefore production / innovation much faster due to demand.

 

[alohart]

As Alohart mentioned, there are different levels for DC charging...however even at the most basic DC charging at 40kw is still much faster than than the fastest Level 2 charging (7.6kw) the i3 is capable of.

There seem to be basically 2 current DC charger power levels in the U.S.: 24 kW which some BMW dealers have deployed and 50 kW that seems to be the most common. The i3 is limited to 50 kW.

DC charging capability is nice to have, but since you have a REx, may be unnecessary and expensive to use - costs roughly $10-12 per DC charge session.

DC charging costs range from free to quite expensive. Even with Oahu's expensive electricity (~25¢/kWh), local DC chargers cost only $9.00-$9.50 per charging session which is a good deal for those with high capacity battery packs but a little expensive for small battery packs.

So...unless you are driving in a very aggressive environment (you have to go over 75 mph and cannot draft a large vehicle) that requires AC or heating continuously - you should be able to avoid the much slower more expensive DC charging and do faster/more affordable gasoline fuel ups.

Avoiding charging in favor of burning gasoline seems like odd advice from someone with the tag "EVBob". DC charging isn't always expensive. Some i3's qualify for ChargeNow cards that offer free DC charging at EVgo charging stations. With some planning, one can frequently charge while stopping to eat, shop, etc., thus minimizing the burning of gasoline which we all need to do.

 

[EVBob]

…DC charging costs range from free to quite expensive. Even with Oahu's expensive electricity (~25¢/kWh), local DC chargers cost only $9.00-$9.50 per charging session which is a good deal for those with high capacity battery packs but a little expensive for small battery packs….

This is really location dependent, “Free” DC charging is great if you can get it. However I put quote marks around “Free” because the chargepoint card you get with the i3 is only good for 2 years if you buy new, one year if you buy CPO. In addition during our 2450 mile round trip, DC charging stations were scarce, there was one stretch where there wasn’t even an AC level 2 charger for 200 miles. Add on top of that of the 5 times we did do a DC charge, only one of them was part of the chargepoint network. We lucked out with one of the other four being a promo piece for Georgia Power on a University campus not too far from the highway and got a free DC charge from that one. The other three were various providers (Greenlots, Sema and EVgo) with very convoluted and time consuming methods to sign up for service and linking up a credit card before using their DC chargers. Then seeing one of them charged us completely wrong and having to dispute it…luckily I took a picture of the charging screen when we left each of them.

…Avoiding charging in favor of burning gasoline seems like odd advice from someone with the tag "EVBob". DC charging isn't always expensive. Some i3's qualify for ChargeNow cards that offer free DC charging at EVgo charging stations. With some planning, one can frequently charge while stopping to eat, shop, etc., thus minimizing the burning of gasoline which we all need to do.

Everyone’s situation is a bit different. If I also lived on an island that was 44 miles long and 30 miles wide with a really good density of L2 and DC charging stations, I too would scoff at the idea of “needing” a REx using fossil fuels. However, my situation and driving conditions are a lot different from yours and those on the West Coast.

What is an i3 driver to do when his/her “free” chargepoint card expires and doing a trip that is over 200 miles?

Assuming in a perfect world where there is a DC charger every 40 miles and they are always functional and available – then given the option of 30 minutes of road trip time to get 80 miles for $10 vs 2 minutes of time to get 85 miles for $6 – that would really depend on the person and the situation, however on a long road trip where time is a precious commodity – I have a feeling most would choose the later option.

Most won’t want to stop for 30 minutes souvenir shopping/snack/restroom breaks every 75 minutes… For the return trip I completed, I did roughly 650 miles a day for 2 days in a row in the i3 REx – If I had to do a 30 minute DC charge every 80 miles – that would be eight, 30 minute stops – so roughly 4 hours of eating/shopping for crap/twiddling fingers/trying to explain to my two cranky toddlers why we have to sit in a parking lot doing nothing . Assuming my average speed is 65mph – I was able to gain 260 miles of distance/conserve 4 hours per day with the Rex, saving a day (otherwise this would be a three day road trip) of my scarce vacation days and lodging expenses.

...Now if it was just me and one passenger for this trip-- assuming everyone was driving the legal speed -- Driving my still beloved Gen 1 Insight would beat any EV or ICE on this trip - only needing two fuel ups for the entire trip with the only variables like bladder and hunger tolerance slowing you down :lol: .

 

[bwilson4web]

. . .
...Now if it was just me and one passenger for this trip-- assuming everyone was driving the legal speed -- Driving my still beloved Gen 1 Insight would beat any EV or ICE on this trip - only needing two fuel ups for the entire trip with the only variables like bladder and hunger tolerance slowing you down :lol: .

Our backup car, 2017 Prius Prime Plus is a nice ride too. The 16A L2 charging is nothing to shout about but the 25-30 mile EV range around town works for us.

Bob Wilson

 

[EVBob]

. . .

Our backup car, 2017 Prius Prime Plus is a nice ride too. The 16A L2 charging is nothing to shout about but the 25-30 mile EV range around town is works for us.

Bob Wilson

Wow that is a really nice ride, didn't know it could do 620 miles range on a single fuel up & electrical charge. While i love my gen 1 insight, it isn't all the comfortable, and can only fit two passengers...Being made in 2006 - it feels primitive compared to most contemporary cars, the i3 especially ;-)

If only Toyota could fix the rear spoiler lip/tail light on their new prius...every time I see one brake at early dusk, it reminds me of a plumber's crack

 

[alohart]

While i love my gen 1 insight, it isn't all the comfortable, and can only fit two passengers...Being made in 2006 - it feels primitive compared to most contemporary cars, the i3 especially ;-)

After 15 years of ownership, we sold our 2000 Honda Insight in July to a German buyer rather than shipping it from Sweden back to Honolulu where it was originally sold. It was a great European road tripper for the two of us because of its very high fuel efficiency in a region with very high gasoline prices. Its compact size made driving in old European cities with narrow streets and tight parking relatively easy. We didn't find it uncomfortable at all, but it does feel very primitive relative to our i3 BEV. I won't miss the oil changes and ICE maintenance at all.

 

[bwilson4web]

. . . If only Toyota could fix the rear spoiler lip/tail light on their new prius...every time I see one brake at early dusk, it reminds me of a plumber's crack

When I took a Prime for a test drive, the sales lady pointed out the rear lights and profile. I was about 15 ft behind the car and took a squatting position and said,"Well if I can drive it from here, I'm sure I'll appreciate it."

Repeated adnauseam, are complaints by professional car reviewers about the Prius body design. If I am clarifying some technical aspect in a comment that also includes the stock 'Prius are fugly', I recommend if they see a Prius on the road while driving,"Just close your eyes and the problem will go away."

The irony is the third week of owning our BMW i3-REx, some kid in a pickup yelled out,"Your car is ugly!"

I was more surprised than anything else as in 10 years of Prius ownership, no one had ever yelled that at our Prius. In contrast, I've had people in traffic and parking lots admire our BMW i3-REx and I give them a tour. Heck in Mississippi, you'd have thought it was a spaceship.

Kudos on the original Insight. My understanding the Tesla Model 3 is also an aluminum (or nonferrous) body. Weight matters.

Bob Wilson

 

[EVBob]

The irony is the third week of owning our BMW i3-REx, some kid in a pickup yelled out,"Your car is ugly!"

This was actually a small selling point for us. We generally avoid brands that could be considered "pretentious" - to avoid the headache of higher likelihood of vandalism and targeting for muggings, etc ...Since its so "ugly" folks may leave it alone was the wife's thought ;-) Because the design is very much form following function - the aesthetics of the car are growing on me ;-) These cars (i3 and Insight) however, have gotten us more attention than we would like - almost all due to their "odd" exteriors...that and pulling a spare fuel tank out of the frunk to fill up during our roadtrip

. . . Kudos on the original Insight. My understanding the Tesla Model 3 is also an aluminum (or nonferrous) body. Weight matters.

Bob Wilson

Unfortunately the Model 3 has steel incorporated into the frame. Living in Florida, cars are susceptible to rust, the closer they live to the coast... Looking at the undersides of the Mustang and Jeep, and they all show signs of corrosion..the Insight and i3 show none (both of which started their lives in areas with heavy use of road salt).....well with the exception of a little red on a bolt head here and there...

 

[sipabit]

I'm just so happy this story ended well. Congrats on having DC charging after all! Now go drive, but do it safely.