Fast DC (CCS) charger on M25...

[jadnashuanh]

I've been doing a little research on the differences in control methods between CHADeMo and CCS. The former uses low voltage, dedicated CANBUS communications (similar to Ethernet) to negotiate the full charging routine. CCS relies on Power Line Communications (PLC) at 30MHz on the ac line into the connector to negotiate the recharging. The other pilot signal and interlock lines are still used. FWIW, keeping a 'foreign' device off of the central communications network of a vehicle would seem to have some benefits to me! Unfortunately, 30MHz can be somewhat common depending on where you are, but it is essentially hard-wired, not OTA like say CB radio (which is in that band, but not used everywhere). The CCS standard allows more control over the charging routine, if I'm reading it correctly than CHADeMo, and because it is not directly connected to the main computer's CANBUS inputs, could use a common interface module and should be more universal across multiple manufacturers. Obviously, that's not necessarily the case, but if careful implementation of the protocol is done on both the CCS unit and the vehicles, it should be easier to implement. Now, I just wish where I live had some push to get some of these installed.

 

[RJSATLBA]

I'm having similarly disappointing experiences with the Ecotricity CCS network and while I'm conscious that we would be open to justifiable criticism for complaining about a free service, I am also an Ecotricity customer for FIT, gas and electric, partly because of their commitment to the motorway network.

I tried the new Wetherby CCS a few days after collecting my i3 in early Oct and it was out of order, but I had to chide myself as I hadn't checked the ElecHighway map which showed it u/s. As far as I can tell it has been u/s ever since despite being upgraded in the last couple of weeks.

My first longer trip was from Leeds to Holy Island and back, c150 each way and I was let down by the CCS at Scotch Corner which was u/s but hadn't been reported. The CCS at Washington worked but I'd been forced to REx to reach it. All three Northumberland Council CYC CCS chargers that I tried worked.

The next trip was Leeds, Sutton Coldfield, Ross on Wye, Twickenham, Telford, Leeds - Fri-Sun. I planned to use the CCS at Ferrybridge to give me enough to reach Trowell S but Ferrybridge was u/s and hadn't been reported, Trowell worked fine after about 15 miles REx to reach it. I had about 15 miles left when I left Sutton Coldfield so slogged W thro the suburbs at 3pm Fri to get to IKEA, which was also great. From there I made it to Ross in heavy rain with not much left but abandoned the plan to charge at one of Herefordshire's CYC chargers in the public car park as it was about 10 mins from where I was staying and hosing down.

So next day it was a detour to pick up the M5 N and call at the excellent new independent services for a CCS charge before heading up to the next junction and escaping cross country towards Swindon. The first two CCS units on the M4 E were u/s but I got a charge near Slough. Then on Sun morning it was N Circ to M40, where the first two CCS were again down but finally Warwick was good.

After that the plan was to use a 7kW unit at Asda in Telford while spending a couple of hours at the Exhibition Centre , then head for Knutsford on M6 N but Telford was gridlocked beyond the Exhibition Centre so that plan was abandoned and I just parked at the Ex Centre then set off ENE to pick up the M6 further S than planned at Stafford but that was u/s. The next stop was Keele, where I stopped long enough on a med charger to get 10%SoC and hold it rather than risk having to cross the M62 from a 6.5% start and possibly hit limp mode. It was a good thing too because Knutsford CCS was u/s and so I took a diversion to Warrington IKEA where the CCS was nowhere to be seen. One of the car park guys told me it had blown up 3 days before and made rather a mess of the car that was charging, what was left had been removed,

So off I went on REx again, E on the M62, with 9.5%, switched to EcoPro+ and 56mph at the start of the climb and made it comfortably, altho from 6.5% it would have been marginal. A total of 635 miles of which about 2/3 was REx.

The next trip was Boxing Day. Headed straight down the M1 as Ferrybridge still shown u/s on the ElecHighway map. Fought the traffic into Meadowhall thro the Sale traffic to use the new and much publicised S Yorks CCS but it had a makeshift out of order sign, continued to Trowell where the CCS looked good (and I've used it twice before, albeit before the upgrade) but it gave a DC charge unavailable message as soon as I selected CCS before reaching the Connect Now instruction. Helpful lady at Eco said it shoudl work and unseuccessfully tried a remote start before suggesting driving round the car park before trying again but I gave that a miss as I couldn't see how it would help if the error message had come up before the car was even connected. Worrying that it had worked before the upgrade but not after. Drove to Sutton Coldfield on REx dropped off pressies and drove in to centre to use the 7kWh CYC charger in the public car park. All looked good until I checked the app shortly after leaving and it showed not charging.

Resorted to driving up to the CCS on the M6 Toll just as the snow started but that gave an error message. Abandoned all hope, returned to Sutton and drove back all the way on REx next day. A round trip, with diversions, of 286 miles, 220 on Rex.

Thank goodness the car is terrific.

 

[nowtta60]

I'm having similarly disappointing experiences with the Ecotricity CCS network... A round trip, with diversions, of 286 miles, 220 on Rex.

Thank goodness the car is terrific.

That just shows why anyone buying a BEV instead of a REX is mad In my mind. Unless you plan limit all your journeys to a 25-30 mile radius of your house.

There's only 1 other EV I'd buy at the moment... an 85kW Telsa, except I don't have £60,000 lying around and refuse to stick hat much on credit.

You either need to carry lots of electric in your battery or be able to generate on the fly as the infrastructure is still "under development".

 

[psquare]

That just shows why anyone buying a BEV instead of a REX is mad In my mind.

That's a bit generalising. I am sure almost everyone who owns a BEV has ordered the vehicle with his/her specific requirements in mind. Also, many people (especially on the german forums!) are very much against the REx and its (in their view) noisy little combustion friend. This has also been discussed on here many times, of course. Why go through the pain of designing a very light car and not put more batteries in, but instead add a little petrol generator weighing 120 kg? Answer is likely to be the higher availability of petrol stations vs charging points.

I am not that much of a purist, but I had similar views when I started researching the car. In an ideal world, I'd love to have ordered the BEV. Fact for me is though: I need a car that can do a few more miles every now and then. Also, I currently can't recharge an EV at work. Therefore, a REx was the better choice. But I know I probably will only use it in probably 5-7% of all journeys. Choosing between BEV and REx was the toughest choice of all - I guess for £3k extra you could say "And so it should be"!

In addition to all that - I haven't even received my car yet, so my mileage might (literally!) vary extremely once I've used it for a few months!

Unless you plan limit all your journeys to a 25-30 mile radius of your house.

Another i3 owner I know is perfectly happy with his BEV, delivering to customers locally.

 

[ATXMARC]

So jealous in texas

 

[Tomasz]

So jealous in texas

Why?

I was in Austin last week and actually saw two i3s in the wild. I think i3 is a perfect car for the metro.

 

[logorrhoea]

Following @elechighway on Twitter has become rather worrying of late - I get the impression (justified or not) that faults at the Ecotricity charging points are common. Given that there's not a huge number of alternative charging points, I want to be absolutely sure that when I get to a service station with a CCS charger that it's going to work.

I had a worrying experience just before Christmas. I was down to my last 4 miles in the BEV on pulling into Pease Pottage services and couldn't get the CCS charger to work. Looking at the other (incompatible) charging points, they were all down. In desperation I called the number on the charging post and was told by the friendly Ecotricity man that there was no fault on the CCS. After trying a couple of things that he suggested, I managed some sort of charging going but it would only last a minute at a time. Just as I was getting desperate, on something like the eight attempt, I managed to get the CCS charging working and locked on. I then went to grab some lunch and by the time I got back, the car had charged a ridiculous amount. When I got home, I noticed the Twitter account advised people to call to enable remote start. I could've saved myself a lot of stress had I known that before trying to charge.

If I hadn't had the initial scare and issues with getting the charger to work, I'd be raving about how great the DC charge is and planning longer journeys out of the normal range of the battery. As it is, the i3's going to remain the school run and local chores car for now. It was bought for that purpose, but I was rather hoping we might be able to use it as a long distance car if our smelly diesel 4x4 was ever unavailable.

 

[ATXMARC]

Have an i3 myself...agree its perfect for austin...would love a fast charging network like our buds in the uk

 

[BoMW]

Have an i3 myself...agree its perfect for austin...would love a fast charging network like our buds in the uk

Take it from me Marc, I'm extremely disappointed with the FAST DC CCS network in the UK, it just doesn't work all of the time. Now if you had a CHam...then that connector is more evident and works

 

[BoMW]

I've travelled 14500 miles since delivery in April and I can vouch that the CCS ecotricity network is far from reliable. Even after my i3 software update there was no improvement , even after Ecotricity software update there was no improvement, in fact 4 stations had become inoperable after!
I'd be worried if I had just a BEV, I'm thoroughly peeved off that I have to fill up,regularly.

 

[jadnashuanh]

I have no trouble with my BEV, and on longer trips, I enjoy my ICE. Now, I have the luxury of owning two cars and the related expenses, but the i3 gets used the most in trips, but not in miles, where a typical one is more like 1,000-miles or more round-trip. Given the sorry state of CCS units around and along my usual routes, and the spacing of fuel stops along the way, the REx wouldn't be great, either. I do not like to stop unless I want to for some reason, not have to stop nearly hourly, or sooner if the next station is too far away as I'd have to do with the REx.

So, it is very much a personal profile thing...a BEV will either work or it won't for you. My feeling is, I didn't want to be carrying around an engine, and the extra parts, and my daily use easily fits within the BEV's range. I do live in a (small) city, but everything I tend to need is within range, and if I do need to go further, I use my other car. That may only happen a few times a month, so in a way, not very efficient, but it's paid for.

 

[psquare]

So, it is very much a personal profile thing...

Precisely.

 

[mediziner]

So, it is very much a personal profile thing...

Precisely.

It's great due to being right outside the entrance and its free.



google nexus 9 schutzhülle

 

[G8YTZ]

Julie and I have made several long trips in the i3 REX and certainly we have experienced a few issues with the Ecotricity CCS chargers, however we have also noticed a significent improvement in the reliability of late.

On Monday morning I made a 250 mile trip: From home in Petts Wood (BR5) I travelled to my destination in Newbury just stopping at Reading services on the M4 for a charge. I took the easy route of M25, M4 rather than the 7 mile shorter route through Bracknell. I arrived at Reading having run the REX for just 4 miles (82 mile trip). I made a full charge at Reading (40 minutes) as I had time in hand before my meeting and then travelled on to Newbury. After my meeting I travelled back via the M4, A329(M), M3, M25 route to the Cobham services on the M25 where I charged for 20 minutes to take the charge to 85%. My next stop was at Lenham, near Maidstone via M25, M26 and M20 and then I returned to Petts Wood, just stopping at the Maidstone services on the M20 at Leeds Castle for a 15 minute charge. There were no issues at all with any of the Ecotricity chargers on this trip, but the Cobham charger does not currently require a smart card to operate due to a card reader or database communication fault.

In December I also made a trip to pick up my daughter from Birmingham University. Going through Central London the i3 arribed at the M40 Oxford services with 19 miles of range left. I did a full charge at Oxford and the car had adequate range for my planned trip to the campus and a planned return to Warwick services for another charge, however the unit at Warwick was out of service so we continued on to call at Oxford again (the other M40 services do not have CCS) so the REX was called upon to get us back to Oxford. A 90% charge at Oxford meant the return trip to Petts Wood was achived with 13 miles of Electric range left.

One thing I have noticed is the the car refuses to charge from the Ecotricity ac Type 2 points. The car just sits there and the charger displayes "awaiting charge request from vehicle" has anyone else had this issue with the Ecotricity ac chargers and the i3? I have tried three with the same results.

In summary I think Ecotricity have probably licked the main issues with CCS. I must say that their team are very helpful on the phone and seem very pro-active at helping to resolve issues. It is a free service and we are all early adoptors of this exciting technology, but I would certainly advise buying a REX as it is your "get out of jail" card, even if you never use it it will preserve the residual value of what is an excellent car.

I do hope the world adopts the Tesla Super Charger standard. The Tesla charger architecture has multiple levels of redundancy - the Super Chargers are banks of 11kW chargers as fitted to the cars and banks of chargers are shared amongst several connectors in an N+ configuration. The end result is that failure of a single charger in a bank just reduces the maximum charging rate a bit, it does not leave a charger in a non-working state and this must be the key to achving a reliable experience as well as achieving higher energy conversion efficiency (but that's another topic relating to switch mode power supplies!).

We're saving over £200 per month in fuel alone and we both think the i3 is a great car, but it will be joined at some stage by a Model S to replace my E-Class diesel as both cars have their strenghts and are very complimentary to each other.

Justin G8YTZ

 

[psquare]

I've also been following the Ecotricity Highway updates on Twitter and have noticed MANY updates to CCS and normal EVSE being announced in the last 2 weeks, which looks promising.

Not sure I agree on the Tesla Supercharger point from a viewpoint other than the technical (which I think is what you're aiming at), but I guess it depends how it would work for non-Tesla vehicles. Offering chargers for Tesla cars for free obviously creates a problem when vehicle prices eventually come down. Robert Llewelyn (Fully Charged YouTube channel) argued that in the long run free chargers might create a 2-class EV world, where wealthy Tesla drivers charge free and the rest pays for use. Whether that's a good thing or not remains to be seen.

I guess it is also because I am getting very tired of daily Elon Musk quotes.

 

[G8YTZ]

I've also been following the Ecotricity Highway updates on Twitter and have noticed MANY updates to CCS and normal EVSE being announced in the last 2 weeks, which looks promising.

Not sure I agree on the Tesla Supercharger point from a viewpoint other than the technical (which I think is what you're aiming at), but I guess it depends how it would work for non-Tesla vehicles. Offering chargers for Tesla cars for free obviously creates a problem when vehicle prices eventually come down. Robert Llewelyn (Fully Charged YouTube channel) argued that in the long run free chargers might create a 2-class EV world, where wealthy Tesla drivers charge free and the rest pays for use. Whether that's a good thing or not remains to be seen.

I guess it is also because I am getting very tired of daily Elon Musk quotes.

tesla are about selling batteries and a largly proven technology platform, but regarding charging at somtime in the future governments will relasie that there is a taxation opportinity here, however if the cost of charging has already been purchased with the car it will be difficult to introduce retrospective taxation.

I very much support including the fuel in the sticker price of the car, we have become so used to paying a very high price for something that nature provides for free..... Energy but why do we accept this?

Justin G8YTZ

 

[jadnashuanh]

Some states in the USA are considering getting rid of the tax on fuel at the pump, and having people billed on a miles driven basis. This would even it out for all users, but probably penalize those that get good fuel economy or are running EV's. Not sure how that would work, but the tax people are trying to come up with a way to make it work. Not looking forward to that!

At least some CCS units I've looked at have multiple power supplies to provide the DC current required to fast charge a vehicle...this is not unique to Tesla's concept. Solid state devices that can sink a lot of power are quite expensive, so it comes out less to have parallel paths, plus adds some redundancy and fall-back capability. Sort of like the idea of a RAID system for data storage.

 

[G8YTZ]

Jim,

Road pricing has been mooted here too, the London congestion charge is an example of this (brought in by the previous mayor "Red Ken"band only slightly scaled back by Boris) as is the new Dart Charge tax for crossing the Thames at Dartford and soon other east London crossings. Transport for London are now proposing another tax for bringing a combustion engine car into London from 2020 rather tham emulating the Norwegian approach with significent EV incentives. Yet another tax on us moving around and doing business - which the Socialists who want to control our lives don't like.

I think these governments will only be happy when we are all sitting in a square concrete box staring at an Orwelian tele screen ingesting material that has been officially approved.

Justin

 

[Gonville]

One thing I have noticed is the the car refuses to charge from the Ecotricity ac Type 2 points. The car just sits there and the charger displayes "awaiting charge request from vehicle" has anyone else had this issue with the Ecotricity ac chargers and the i3? I have tried three with the same result.

Justin G8YTZ

Justin. I had that experience with the AC first time at Leigh Delamare with AC and I am in a BEV.

There is a trick. During the dialogue stage, flashing orange, you have to slightly lift the nozzle against the i3 charge plate. After you have slotted it home lift the nozzle. Apparently the weight of the cable slightly flexes the mounting of the i3 downwards and something doesn't quite connect. When you do this the EVSE will 'see' the i3 and will engage. The blue light will start to flash. At that point you can release the pressure on the nozzle and charging will continue. Works every time for me. Is a fall back when the triple headers don't see the CCS. You will note that the display in the vehicle says something like " insufficient AC voltage". Plastic mount is not very robust although I believe this has been reported as a software incompatibility. Ecotricity help desk know of this and will advise you to try this "procedure". Good luck next time.

 

[G8YTZ]

Thanks for that tip! I will try that next time! BTW don't you wish manufactuers would put charge ports on both sides of the car?

Justin