BMW to build i3 until 2024

[Fisher99]

I find BMW's recent announcement that they will continue to build the i3 until at least 2024 very interesting. Possibly/probably without the REX option but with a battery upgrade somewhere down the line to increase range a bit more. I'm just curious as to who they think will be buying it? Don't get me wrong. I LOVE my 2014 i3/REX. But I bought it used at a VERY attractive price so it was pretty much a no-brainer for a died in the wool BMW guy like me to dip his toe into the world of electric vehicles. I have 2 other vehicles (including a gas powered BMW) to handle long range travel, so the "city car" design of the i3 works well for me.

However: There are a growing number of lower cost, longer range, higher functionality electric vehicle options today. For example, I just did a quick online check and the base price of an i3 is around $44k. A Standard Range Tesla Model 3 with 250 mile range, 2 second quicker 0-60 time, higher top speed, autopilot, and more (and more easily accessed) passenger space starts at around $39k. A full $5,000 cheaper than the i3.

Again, I LOVE my i3. But if I was looking to purchase a brand new EV, even as a guy who bleeds BMW blue, I couldn't see myself buying a new i3 over the Tesla Model 3. Is BMW counting on the uniqueness (oddness?) of the i3 to keep sales going? Is BMW counting on us BMW loyalists to buy the i3 even when better options exist? Just wondering what BMW is seeing that I am missing.

 

[KarlC]

Search info on BMW i3 sales and you will see things like .....

- BMW i3 EV has most successful first quarter yet; global sales up 16.2%

- In the first half of the year, BMW i3 sales climbed 21 percent worldwide

- BMW i3 = #1 Electric Vehicle In Germany In August, Record Performance

 

[eNate]

... who they think will be buying it? Don't get me wrong.

Again, I LOVE my i3.

I agree!

Right car, right time. But four years from now?

I think BMW's initial announcement about no successor to the i3 was misinterpreted by many to mean an announcement of the end of the i3.

The later announcements seemed to clarify that.

BMW wants their electrics to be mainstream, not quirky, and not expensive to produce.

The carbon fiber body on aluminum frame is fantastic engineering, but is also a costly answer to the problem of low capacity batteries and the range-sapping effects of pushing around excess weight. The skinny tires address the same concern.

The limited market will continue for the unique i3, but its sales are going to slow because of its excess cost to manufacture vs. all of the competition it will face from VW, Audi, Volvo, and others. At some point, BMW is going to have the equivalent to an electric 3-series that's more "normal" and it will compete against the i3.

 

[alohart]

Some of us wouldn't buy any large, heavy sedan including a Model 3 regardless of its price and very advanced tech. If a compact, agile, relatively light hatchback other than an i3 isn't available in the U.S. in 2024, I'd consider replacing our 2014 BEV with another i3. As of today, the VW ID.3 and the Honda Urban EV, potential i3 competitors, will not be sold in the U.S. Hopefully, other i3 competitors will be sold in the U.S. by 2024.

 

[eNate]

True, but a big (and unknowable) part of the equation is commonly held perceptions.

People "know" what a car is supposed to look like, and an i3 doesn't fit that vision.

I purposely didn't even consider an i3 initially. (a) I'm no a fan of the Panda (b) it's small (c) it's an expensive and unreliable BMW.

All of my assumptions / preconceptions were wrong.

Automotive designers are going to quickly morph our expectations of what a car looks like. BMW (thankfully) got the jump on everybody else. Even Tesla has tip-toed into this field so as not turn off prospective buyers.

Let's be real, the i3's interior passenger space is on par with most midsize sedans, it's only "compact" from the outside perspective, and I suppose the trunk.

 

[KarlC]

True, but a big (and unknowable) part of the equation is commonly held perceptions.

People "know" what a car is supposed to look like, and an i3 doesn't fit that vision.

I purposely didn't even consider an i3 initially. (a) I'm no a fan of the Panda (b) it's small (c) it's an expensive and unreliable BMW.

All of my assumptions / preconceptions were wrong.

Automotive designers are going to quickly morph our expectations of what a car looks like. BMW (thankfully) got the jump on everybody else. Even Tesla has tip-toed into this field so as not turn off prospective buyers.

Let's be real, the i3's interior passenger space is on par with most midsize sedans, it's only "compact" from the outside perspective, and I suppose the trunk.

So true !!!

.

 

[Fisher99]

You guys make some good points. But still, is a slower, smaller, and lower battery range i3 really worth a premium of $5k over a Tesla Model 3? I get that the i3 sales have, according to BMW, continued to be reasonably good. But the competition is getting stiffer and I'm not sure that the i3 can hold market share for 5 more years. Maybe at a price point equal to the competition but possibly not at a premium price. I think that people spending i3 prices will tend to demand more (especially battery range), and people whose lifestyles fit "city car" range will find way more affordable options.

 

[alohart]

But still, is a slower, smaller, and lower battery range i3 really worth a premium of $5k over a Tesla Model 3?

Anyone who pays MSRP for an i3 is foolish. However, everyone pays MSRP for a Model 3. So the actual average U.S. purchase price of a base i3 likely isn't any higher than that of a base Model 3. i3 U.S. leases are much less expensive than those of a Model 3.

For those of us who live in salty, humid climates, the corrosion-free i3 is certainly superior to a mostly steel and in some cases poorly painted Model 3 in terms of body corrosion potential. However, this consideration isn't important to many buyers.

I get that the i3 sales have, according to BMW, continued to be reasonably good. But the competition is getting stiffer and I'm not sure that the i3 can hold market share for 5 more years

If that occurs, BMW could pull the plug on the i3 at any time.

Maybe at a price point equal to the competition but possibly not at a premium price. I think that people spending i3 prices will tend to demand more (especially battery range), and people whose lifestyles fit "city car" range will find way more affordable options.

The i3 has never sold in large numbers, and BMW never planned to sell large numbers of i3's. BMW increased i3 output a year or so ago due to satisfy increasing sales numbers. There will likely continue to be ~30k buyers per year throughout all i3 markets for several years because not all new competitive EV's are sold in all markets. At that level, BMW is apparently making a profit. However, aluminum and CFRP are expensive materials, so the price of an i3 won't drop so low that no profit is being made.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The construction method used on the i3 does not support much higher production than what is currently deployed. According to the company that tore down the i3, they found that after a very expensive analysys, that BMW was making money on the i3 from the beginning, and it gave them a big lead on the use of CFRP in other vehicles they introduced afterwards. Yes, the i3 is quirky, but I think, in a good way. That may be the engineer in me. I didn't have any problems with its look or function. Then again the first new car I bought was a Citroen ID19...definitely not a mainstream vehicle, either. If you haven't watched this, it's a good interview https://youtu.be/uDr4L6BzpP8

 

[Fisher99]

Well, it will be interesting to watch how it goes. The good news for "thrifty" people like me is that the depreciation is so horrendous on the i3 that lovely and lightly used models are available at very attractive prices. But in order for that to happen, someone has to be buying the new ones...

I could see myself selling my 2014 i3/REX and buying a nice used and deeply depreciated version of whatever turns out to be the last iteration of the REX with the larger battery pack someday. But at new prices, the i3, unfortunately, wouldn't make my list.

So, keep on buying those new i3's so people like me can buy the used ones!

 

[SkepTeach]

But still, is a slower, smaller, and lower battery range i3 really worth a premium of $5k over a Tesla Model 3?

i3 U.S. leases are much less expensive than those of a Model 3.

Thought you guys might like to see some comparos. I live in Arkansas, and we don't have any state-level incentives. I recently leased an i3s REx that MSRP'd for $55k. The dealer gave me a $2k discount, then a further $10,500 combination from other incentives. I'm leasing it for 24 months and paying $560/month. I think it would have been around $540 for 36 months.

My partner just leased a Model 3 SR+. No options, and white is (for now) free, so his MSRP was right around $40-41k delivered. He's leasing it for 36 months and is paying $520/month. He was required to put down $2500, but some of that was acquisition fee, first month's payment, fees, etc, so I think his total cap cost reduction down payment was ~$1100.

So I would say leasing the two cars is pretty comparable. It's hard to compare dollar-for-dollar because of incentives for one and not the other, discounts, etc., but it certainly does seem that you can get a more expensive car (the i3s) for very similar money as the Model 3. That being said, while I *love* the way my i3s looks (red with black wheels), when it's parked next to his Model 3 in white, well....his car certainly looks more expensive.

 

[Fisher99]

Great info! Nice to see actual dollar amounts for fairly similar scenarios.

Having now completed one 800+ mile trip (bringing the car home when I bought it), one 500+ mile trip (to my son's place and back), and multiple 150-170 mile trips (to a town 70+ miles away where my wife likes to shop), I can say a few things that have now become apparent and true for me. Others experiences will obviously vary:

First, I absolutely love my 2014 i3/REX for 90+% of the driving that I do. Total mileage per day averages 40-60 miles and is always covered by battery range. REX not needed. The car is light and nimble and I love the fact that it doesn't look like any other car. I embrace its funkiness and love it!

Second, even with the more recent larger i3 battery packs, I would want the REX option. While a late model i3/BEV might complete my wife's shopping trips, it wouldn't leave enough of a margin for me to have a comfort level with it. There are a few places that I could top off the battery while we are there, but unfortunately none where my wife shops. I would have to drop her off, drive somewhere and sit for an hour or two (no DC charging stations). Not my version of fun.

Which brings me to my current thoughts. Again, for me, based upon my experience and needs: If I was buying again and could get a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range for close to the same money, I would absolutely and undeniably buy the Tesla. Even though 90% of my needs are met with my i3 running on battery only, being able to easily cover 100% of my needs would swing the vote for me. However, if I can buy a used i3/REX for 50% (or less) of the cost of a used Tesla, then I'll keep driving an i3. And right now that seems to be the market place scenario.

So, with that said, my i3 is currently sitting on the charger, pre-conditioning the batteries, the gas tank is full, and we are getting ready to head out for another shopping trip (Christmas time, you know). I'll start out on battery and switch to gas once I get down to around 75% remaining battery. Will mostly run around on battery once we are there and will top off the gas tank for the trip back home. I will get back home with probably zero battery left and about 15-20 miles range left in the gas tank. It's all very doable, but sure would be nice to just be on 100% battery with at least a 50 mile buffer...

 

[i3Houston]

I often think about TM3 but i3 meets 100% of my driving needs so its tough to just splurge on a Tesla. I tell my self to hold on until the next generation battery packs that have Maxwell super capacitors built into battery pack.