BMW i3 pricing question

[YashuV]

I didn't think about that^
So what's your guess "Peter" Parker... (sorry had to haha)

 

[Parker]

I think its hard to guess a "world price" for the i3 because of different taxes and exchange rates but I think whatever the Volt/Ampera sells for in your territory then the base i3 will sell for about the same. Now as we all know a BASE BMW probably isn’t worth having so it will be interesting to see what comes as standard and what we have to pay extra for. As all the base electrics are in the vehicle plus 2 hi def looking screens its going to be hard for BMW to justify 1,000 of £€$ for Sat Nav, DAB, BT and internet connection but I'm sure they'll try. Options I'm hoping for in addition to Sat Nav, DAB, BT and internet is a Panoramic glass roof (something you can't get in a Volt / Ampera - and something all my other cars have) and nice stereo ... Alcantara and Leather seats, front, side & rear sensors and maybe a parking camera and that should just about do me ....oh and frozen blue matt paint!

 

[Northwestern]

With regards to options, I wonder what will be a la carte and what will come in the form of a package. I have a 328 E91 sportwagon and it was expensive to buy the 2 most important options to me, the sport suspension and the lumbar seats. To do so I had to buy 2 separate packages. It seems the i3 a) doesn't need a sport suspension but b) might need some "beefier" front seats. As much as I like this car, the new Benz is priced at $30k, there is a Lexus 200 hybrid, Audi A3 diesel, a BMW 320, 128, and X1 for about $30k to $33k. That's the competition for me and at the end of the day all these competitors are very fuel-efficient and there's little reason for me to pay a large premium for an i3 (I drive less than 10,000 miles/year). Looked at another way, if the i3 isn't competitive after considering a Fed. tax credit of $7,500, a State credit of $2,500, maybe a HOV sticker, no road taxes, and some free plug-in opportunities here and there BMW is doing something wrong.

I guess my question is what "must-have" options does the i3 need, and will they be bundled in packages?

 

[Parker]

I think of an electric car in a slightly different way.

Fuel here is approx $10 a gal (imp) so the figures work out slightly differently but even so the cost per mile petrol vs electric is something like £0.15 petrol vs £0.03 electric. So at 10k miles per year here in the UK even if the i3 is £10k more than the equivalent Audi A3 after about 7 years the total costs will be about equal - that’s assuming fuel prices don't go up ...... if they do go up then the pay back is sooner. It’s as if you have paid for your fuel in advance. I appreciate with the low cost of Gas in the USA these sums aren't quite so attractive but personally think it’s important to support people and organisations that are developing solutions for when petrol and diesel are too expensive for ordinary people to afford. Remember despite the "recession" 80 million new cars were made in the world last year and 30% of those were 1st time car owners - they will want to use them just as much as we do....and in 2013 it will be over 100 million new cars made for the first time in history.

In Europe we get very few packages ... everything costs - hill hold £90, lights over sun-visors £55 (on a £30k car!)..every little thing has a price. The upside is we can exactly the car we want..... the downside is most Audis, BMW's & Mercs need at least £5k's worth of options to make them feel premium. The only exception is Jaguar and Land Rover where the car supplied actually feels like a luxury car from the get go.

 

[Parker]

Autobild a German Car magazine said this week the entry level i3 would be €38,000 or about £32,000 or about $50,000 - so I think I was about right when I said BMW would price the i3 at about the same price as an Ampera here in the UK. Now what the magazine didn't say was if this was before or after subsidies - I'm afraid I don't know what German citizens get.

I suppose the issue I have with the i3 at the moment is for all its exotic (and one assumes expensive construction) what are the real benefits to the owner? If the range is a genuine 120 miles then that’s all fine and dandy but each time I read another article the range is going down and down - the last one I read was between 60-80 miles so what does all this extreme engineering get you over say a Zoe or Leaf – apart from some nice Leather, sustainable wood and pillarless suicide doors?

 

[TomMoloughney]

Autobild a German Car magazine said this week the entry level i3 would be €38,000 or about £32,000 or about $50,000 - so I think I was about right when I said BMW would price the i3 at about the same price as an Ampera here in the UK. Now what the magazine didn't say was if this was before or after subsidies - I'm afraid I don't know what German citizens get.

I suppose the issue I have with the i3 at the moment is for all its exotic (and one assumes expensive construction) what are the real benefits to the owner? If the range is a genuine 120 miles then that’s all fine and dandy but each time I read another article the range is going down and down - the last one I read was between 60-80 miles so what does all this extreme engineering get you over say a Zoe or Leaf – apart from some nice Leather, sustainable wood and pillarless suicide doors?

European pricing is always higher than what we pay in the US (Don't really know why that is but it is). I know the i3 won't be $50,000 in the US, it will definitely be a good deal less before incentives buy you may very well see a $50k price in the UK. The range isn't going to be 120 miles, but I don't suspect it will be 60-80 either. BMW has been steadfast with their 80-100 mile claim and they have never said anything other than that . The 60-80 mile claim was made by Luca Ciferri, the editor of Automotive News Europe and was basically his interpretation of what the i3 will deliver, not an announcement from BMW. I believe he was simply looking at similar EV's with similar sized battery packs and making the assumption what the range would be. Lets wait till the EPA figures are released before we really start debating what the range will be.

What do you really get from any BMW? A Honda Accord is pretty similar to a 3-Series, why do people pay double? It's a premium car and offers a premium driving experience (BMW will tell you the Ultimate driving experience!). I have spoken to BMW engineers that have driven i3's and they promise me I'm going to love the power and in particular the handling. Plus it's going to have electronics that are not available on any other EV.

 

[Parker]

European pricing is always higher than what we pay in the US (Don't really know why that is but it is). I know the i3 won't be $50,000 in the US, it will definitely be a good deal less before incentives buy you may very well see a $50k price in the UK. The range isn't going to be 120 miles, but I don't suspect it will be 60-80 either. BMW has been steadfast with their 80-100 mile claim and they have never said anything other than that . The 60-80 mile claim was made by Luca Ciferri, the editor of Automotive News Europe and was basically his interpretation of what the i3 will deliver, not an announcement from BMW. I believe he was simply looking at similar EV's with similar sized battery packs and making the assumption what the range would be. Lets wait till the EPA figures are released before we really start debating what the range will be.

What do you really get from any BMW? A Honda Accord is pretty similar to a 3-Series, why do people pay double? It's a premium car and offers a premium driving experience (BMW will tell you the Ultimate driving experience!). I have spoken to BMW engineers that have driven i3's and they promise me I'm going to love the power and in particular the handling. Plus it's going to have electronics that are not available on any other EV.

Thanks for the clarification re the 60-80 mile range.

So does the Carbon Fibre constuction "buy" 20 -30 miles?

Re prices..... the fact that a Honda Accord costs the SAME as a 3 Series in Europe could be the reason the 3 Series is in the top 10 best sellers and the Honda Accord will probably be withdrawn from the UK market at some point soon. We don't have the large price disparity between premium and mainstream brands you do in the States for some reason I have no idea why. Cars just don't sell as cheaply here. Which begs the question if the i3 sells for a lot less in the USA why don't people from left hand Europe import it from the USA ...... I know I would. There certainly won’t be any emissions standards problems!

Can you elude to what type of electronics the i3 will have that other EV's won’t.

 

[TomMoloughney]

European pricing is always higher than what we pay in the US (Don't really know why that is but it is). I know the i3 won't be $50,000 in the US, it will definitely be a good deal less before incentives buy you may very well see a $50k price in the UK. The range isn't going to be 120 miles, but I don't suspect it will be 60-80 either. BMW has been steadfast with their 80-100 mile claim and they have never said anything other than that . The 60-80 mile claim was made by Luca Ciferri, the editor of Automotive News Europe and was basically his interpretation of what the i3 will deliver, not an announcement from BMW. I believe he was simply looking at similar EV's with similar sized battery packs and making the assumption what the range would be. Lets wait till the EPA figures are released before we really start debating what the range will be.

What do you really get from any BMW? A Honda Accord is pretty similar to a 3-Series, why do people pay double? It's a premium car and offers a premium driving experience (BMW will tell you the Ultimate driving experience!). I have spoken to BMW engineers that have driven i3's and they promise me I'm going to love the power and in particular the handling. Plus it's going to have electronics that are not available on any other EV.

Thanks for the clarification re the 60-80 mile range.

So does the Carbon Fibre constuction "buy" 20 -30 miles?

Re prices..... the fact that a Honda Accord costs the SAME as a 3 Series in Europe could be the reason the 3 Series is in the top 10 best sellers and the Honda Accord will probably be withdrawn from the UK market at some point soon. We don't have the large price disparity between premium and mainstream brands you do in the States for some reason I have no idea why. Cars just don't sell as cheaply here. Which begs the question if the i3 sells for a lot less in the USA why don't people from left hand Europe import it from the USA ...... I know I would. There certainly won’t be any emissions standards problems!

Can you elude to what type of electronics the i3 will have that other EV's won’t.

I believe the extensive use of CFRP does two things. By drastically reducing the weight of the car it makes the car more efficient because it takes less energy to push a lighter vehicle. Secondly it allows BMW to use less batteries to achieve the same range which lowers the price considerably since the batteries are the most expensive component in an EV. Yes the CFRP does add back some cost, but I'm told it's not as much as the savings gained by being able to use less batteries.

As for the electronics, you can take a look at a blog post I did last year. None of this is confirmed by BMW of course: http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2012/05/will-bmw-i3-be-first-car-to-drive.html

 

[surfingslovak]

the fact that a Honda Accord costs the SAME as a 3 Series in Europe

If I'm not mistaken, the European Accord was comparable in its execution to the Acura stateside. Plus there was a touring version in Europe too. Is this still the case? That might explain the higher price point. I have to agree with the observation that the US market is priced differently, and one might say, far more competitively.

 

[Serbas]

BMW will still be quite expensive, and that's because BMW will produce a low number of i3s.

It will cost about 40k as appears on BMW News

 

[TomMoloughney]

BMW will still be quite expensive, and that's because BMW will produce a low number of i3s.

It will cost about 40k as appears on BMW News

It's going to cost more than $40,000. I just did a blog post on the latest price rumors and go into detail on how the $40,000 rumor started:
http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2013/05/bmw-i3-cost-hot-topic.html

 

[DavidKHicks]

I understand that the i3 will be +/- $40,000US. I have not heard what the optional range extending gasoline engine will add to the cost. Also, I do not believe that BMW has confirmed a US federal tax credit. yet.

 

[YashuV]

The price for pure BMWi3 EV will more likely start at $42,000. As for federal credit- BMW doesn't have to announce anything- as anyone can get that tax refund as long as it has a certain size of battery in it. I think 16kW or more- something around it. BMWi3 will have 21kW if I am not wrong, so yes federal and state rebates apply.

 

[TomMoloughney]

The price for pure BMWi3 EV will more likely start at $42,000. As for federal credit- BMW doesn't have to announce anything- as anyone can get that tax refund as long as it has a certain size of battery in it. I think 16kW or more- something around it. BMWi3 will have 21kW if I am not wrong, so yes federal and state rebates apply.

The price is still unknown, but I also believe it will be higher than 40k - probably closer to 45k actually. The full $7,500 tax credit will definitely be available. Yashu is correct and electric and hybrid cars that have a battery of 16kWh or larger will qualify for the full amount. The i3 actually will have a 22kWh battery though, not 21kWh.

 

[robster1979]

@Tom: I understand the reasoning to put a 22kw battery in the I3. There is always a trade-off between distance and cost and weight. What's your guess about when an updated version of the I3 will have a bigger battery because price and weight/dimensions will have shrunk enough (and competition forces them..)? The question is of personal interest as my lease only expires in 4 years

 

[TomMoloughney]

@Tom: I understand the reasoning to put a 22kw battery in the I3. There is always a trade-off between distance and cost and weight. What's your guess about when an updated version of the I3 will have a bigger battery because price and weight/dimensions will have shrunk enough (and competition forces them..)? The question is of personal interest as my lease only expires in 4 years

That's really hard to say. I would actually suspect there is a better chance of BMW offering a new model with a bigger battery than there is of them upgrading the i3 with a bigger battery because of advanced energy density and lower cost. I doubt that will happen to the i3 in less than 5 years but as I said it's really hard to predict how quickly battery tech will advance.

 

[robster1979]

thanks!