BMW Connected drive 3G to 4G?

[Anonymous]

GM's Onstar was a Over The Air upgrade to support 4G. Why put in non upgradable hardware in BMWs?

Yeah, makes no sense at all, since AT&T is the provider for both GM's Onstar, and BMW's Assist in the USA.

 

[eNate]

There's no OTA to upgrade 3G to 4G, it's a hardware swap. An OTA can activate hardware that's already present, or disabled 3G, GM definitely performed hardware swaps on many vehicles.

 

[possen]

OK. I was going by this article which gave impression it was OTA to get 4G.

https://www.the-sun.com/motors/4658743/cars-lose-safety-features-this-month-3g-shutdown/

Depends on the hardware but if they chose wisely, which apparently they didn't, they would be able to offer OTA 3G to 4G, firmware, software defined radios SDRs, or PGA upgrades could reprogram radios to support the 4G bands

For more on SDRs:
https://blog.bliley.com/10-popular-software-defined-radios-sdr

 

[eNate]

Hmm, I don't know how possible that is for hardware designed before 4G. 4G compared to 3G is orders of magnitude higher complexity. You'd think if hardware is 4G compatible, then the system it's installed in would also be from jump.

 

[3pete]

I just found out about this and am a little upset. The day comes sooner Feb 22, sounds like i3 2014 owners will soon be SOL. Is replacing the box with a 4G box under the seat viable? Seems that BMW would be aware of the 3G to 4G transition as they dealt with the 2G to 3G transition. Why would they make it impossible to upgrade the box?

It is not impossible; BMW is lying when they say that.

Now, it may be more complicated than simply swapping the 3G TCU for a 4G TCU (which is a part that already exists for newer i3s), but simply doing that swap seems to have worked successfully in at least one case so far: https://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17401

 

[3pete]

Hmm, I don't know how possible that is for hardware designed before 4G.

4G cell phones were available to consumers in 2011. BMW may not have predicted that 3G would be shut down in its favor during the i3's expected life, but 4G hardware was certainly something they should have been aware of before the launch of the i3 in 2013.

 

[eNate]

That's unfortunate.

But traditional legacy auto typically gets a part designed, and then sticks with that part. I'm assuming since this telematics is used in other models, it was "on the shelf" for the i3 design team to easily drop into their vehicle.

I've heard the claim that this practice is partly responsible for the shortage of vehicle ICs — many are dated designs using old processes, and when automakers cancelled orders in droves at the start of the pandemic, fabricators switched over to newer, higher yield chips.

An Android Auto wireless adapter indiegogo campaign I participated in ran into WiFi chip supply issues, redesigned their board for a new chip, then it happened again, so their software now supports adapters that may be running one of three chips. That's awesome flexibility, but not something I'd expect to see from an automaker. Yet.

 

[stumbledotcom]

GM's Onstar was a Over The Air upgrade to support 4G. Why put in non upgradable hardware in BMWs?

Yeah, makes no sense at all, since AT&T is the provider for both GM's Onstar, and BMW's Assist in the USA.

I wouldn't hold up OnStar as an example of great service. I had a 2004 VW Touareg with OnStar that went dark in 2006. No upgrade path either or compensation from OnStar or VW. When the 2G system my 2009 E90 used shut down, BMW at least eventually offered a hardware upgrade. It was absurdly overpriced but it was offered.

Maybe having two cars go dark left me jaded but I view all telematics systems as temporary. They're convenient but not vital. I kept driving the Touareg until trading it for the 2014 i3. And we still have our E90. I hope I'm still driving my 2021 i3 when the 4G network shuts down since it doesn't look like BMW or any other manufacturer will offer a superior city car in the US again.

 

[Anonymous]

I hope I'm still driving my 2021 i3 when the 4G network shuts down since it doesn't look like BMW or any other manufacturer will offer a superior city car in the US again.

BMW already has, sort of. The BMW i3 94 Ah battery pack and the BMW i3 motor power the two door Mini Cooper SE, with 114 mile range with a base price of $30K and currently being sold in the USA by BMW/MINI dealerships. An Electric version of the four door crossover Mini Cooper Countryman will be out in 2023. Owning a 2019 Mini Cooper Countryman myself, I would not be adverse at all to replacing an i3 with an electric Mini cooper, and will be looking seriously at the electric Countryman when it comes out next year. The new MINI Coopers are pretty much all based on BMW platforms and built in BMW factories now - with the new electric Countryman for example will actually be built in BMW's Leipzig plant where all the i3's were built.

 

[eNate]

The problem with the Mini, as I see it (and having not driven one), is it's front wheel drive. That kills two of the characteristics of the i3 I find so endearing: that superb RWD acceleration with the lack of torque steer, and the insane turning radius. I would be surprised if either of those weren't missing on any FWD car.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem with the Mini, as I see it (and having not driven one), is it's front wheel drive. That kills two of the characteristics of the i3 I find so endearing: that superb RWD acceleration with the lack of torque steer, and the insane turning radius. I would be surprised if either of those weren't missing on any FWD car.

True, FWD is different - but having driven both over the years, I actually prefer FWD - a more stable steering feel and acceleration is more linear - and when I lived in snow country - FWD is quite a bit better than RWD on bad roads. There are always trade-offs. That insane i3 turning radius necessitates funky one-source motorcycle tires on the front that rarely last even 20K miles. The Mini Coopers, including the electric, all run 'normal' wide-track tires that can be sourced from a multitude of tire brands, and rotated front to back to extend tread life so you get 40K+ miles out of them instead of 15K to 20K miles. My 2019 Mini Countryman is actually just as 'peppy' as my 2015 i3 REx, and with it's FWD, the Countryman has pretty much the same steering agility even with it's wider tires. Turning radius is not as tight, but not horrendous. Size wise, the Countryman is close in size to the i3, about the same width and height, just slightly longer - which equates to a bit more 'boot' cargo space - spec and performance that should be equal or better in the upcoming electric version of the Countryman in 2023, and the electric three-door hard-top announced likely going into production later this year.

 

[possen]

This sucks, not having comms with i3. Calling it out.

 

[frictioncircle]

This sucks, not having comms with i3. Calling it out.

In case you may have missed it, there's another thread here that was started by someone that replaced their i3's 3G telematics unit with a 4G one.

https://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17401

 

[frictioncircle]

Something I randomly came across today... Open Vehicle Monitoring System (OVMS), an open-source option to add 4G telematics to a vehicle with an OBD-2 port:

https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/open-vehicle-monitoring-system-ovms-wifi-4g-sim-ant-included/

(sadly, there are no options for remote climate control)

 

[Anonymous]

Something I randomly came across today... Open Vehicle Monitoring System (OVMS), an open-source option to add 4G telematics to a vehicle with an OBD-2 port:

https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/open ... -included/

(sadly, there are no options for remote climate control)

Well, that's 1/3rd of the issue. Problem would be getting BMW to approve, and register the new 4g telematics ID in their system, so subscriptions to BMW services would actually work. I think their response to a request to do this would be "When pigs fly!"

 

[frictioncircle]

MKH –

When you have time, please review the link:
https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/open-vehicle-monitoring-system-ovms-wifi-4g-sim-ant-included/

Their product doesn't use your i3's stock telematics module. Instead, their product connects to your i3's OBD-II port, their combox, and your 4G smartphone.

I don't have any relationship with Open Energy Monitor but it seems like their tech could be useful for some owners of older 3G-equipped i3s.

 

[Anonymous]

Would be something to look at for those who need the remote climate control, and remote charging info. But if you want the BMW SOS call system, real-time traffic, and other subscription options, this would not provide that. Also the i3 doesn't like an OBD port permanent plug-ins that draw power - causes issues. So some programming maybe to fix that.

 

[alohart]

Also the i3 doesn't like an OBD port permanent plug-ins that draw power - causes issues. So some programming maybe to fix that.

The burglar alarm that sounds when something remains plugged into the OBD port can be disabled:

FZD (Roof Function Center)

3002->OBD-Alarm: set to inactive

 

[djbrh]

So, @AgentiMi is plugging away along with a few others on a replacement telematics box that should allow for getting these remote services back in an i3. Still a little ways out, but will be fully open source (the hardware and the software) and the hardware won’t be much more than a used telematics box and WAY less than a new one would have been from BMW (for reference, BMW will NOT code a 4G box to work in an i3 even though they very much could, so that option is now a dead end even though a couple people got it done before BMW stopped doing it).

Search reddit for @AgentiMi and see his bio for a link to the discord server if you’re a software or hardware type that wants to help with the project. He’s about to send his design off to be manufactured on the hardware side. There’s still some reverse engineering that needs to happen on the software side, but that part is looking really promising. No, you will NOT be able to use BMW’s app, but a different 3rd party app will likely work MUCH better than that piece of garbage anyway.

—Donnie

 

[eNate]

Donnie do you know if it's going to be through a wifi connection or is there a workaround for cellular connectivity?