Any one here ordered a Tesla Model 3?

[Kiwi]

If you yell to much how great a car is like the Tesla Cult your will fall.

"California makes every car company that tests autonomous cars on the state's roads release a report each year. The reports came out for 2017 and Tesla is mysteriously absent.

It claims it did not test any cars in California last year. This is intriguing. Tesla's offices are in California and its car manufacturing plant is in California. It tested autonomous cars on the road in that state in 2016. Why stop in 2017?

Tesla CEO Elon Musk is not usually reluctant to boast about progress. His social media is full of claims and boasts about how fast Tesla (and his other companies) are going. Tesla claims it is still doing testing, just not in California. It raises a question: if Tesla is choosing to do its testing in a place where it doesn't have to report its results, does that suggest it is proud of its progress?"

 

[jadnashuanh]

For those that may have seen the Monroe (sp?) teardown review of the i3, he was gushing about the novel, interesting, and quality of the build. His assessment was that, unlike almost all (if not all) other EV startup models, he believed BMW did make money on the i3. Tesla hasn't consistently ever made any money, and is still bleeding huge quantities. They have the higher per car warranty costs of any manufacturer by a significant amount in most cases.

EV owners tend to overlook some things...IMHO, Tesla isn't there yet. For what it is, and I readily admit it's not the same as the model 3's intended use, the i3 is a 'finished' product...buying most any Tesla is buying into their hype and an advanced prototype, not a finished car. The i3's capabilities may not coincide with your needs or desires, but if it does, it's a good vehicle. It has its quirks, but it's good.

 

[alohart]

For those that may have seen the Monroe (sp?) teardown review of the i3, he was gushing about the novel, interesting, and quality of the build.

Contrast that with Munro's initial assessment of the Model 3 prior to beginning its teardown.

 

[Kiwi]

Tesla's sales are down up to 22% for last month. Just shows people are slowly coming to there senses of this cult supplier

 

[wiredmeyer]

I have an i3 BEV and a Model X. Got my invitation to order my Model 3 but am waiting for Dual Motor configuration. There is no question the Model 3 beats all competition at the dollar comparison, you would be crazy to buy anything else. However, a used BEV for under $15k is hands down the best bang for your dollar maybe ever. Several years from now when there is such a thing as a CPO Model 3 we will see if that changes. I would also like to point out that even with the build issues my X has had and there have been many, out of the 25 cars I have had it is hands down my favorite car ever and I plan on keeping it forever.

 

[bwilson4web]

Tesla's sales are down up to 22% for last month. Just shows people are slowly coming to their senses of this cult supplier.

Bob Wilson

 

[Milam]

I have a Model 3 on order.

Looking for it at the end of 2018.

Should be a nice car.
Will keep my i3.

Milam

 

[Kiwi]

Tesla reveals 2017 financial results, records near $2B loss

Good luck selling or servicing a Tesla if the company goes out of business. You would have to be finically illiterate to buy into Tesla cult hype.

 

[alohart]

Good luck selling or servicing a Tesla if the company goes out of business. You would have to be finically illiterate to buy into Tesla cult hype.

Should Tesla fail as a business, the remnants would almost certainly be purchased by other companies. Tesla has developed too much valuable tech to just disappear due to financial problems.

Many would say that one would need to be financially illiterate to buy an i3 due to its rapid depreciation and the rapid advancement in EV technology and competition. Yet many of us illiterates have done so. Apparently, there are still ~500,000 illiterates waiting for their Tesla Model 3's to be produced. Maybe they aren't so dumb after all.

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about Tesla. Were it not for Tesla, there would not be so many EV's being produced or planned by so many companies. All EV enthusiasts should thank Tesla for pushing the EV envelope and moving EV's toward the main stream.

That said, I would not buy one, but only because Tesla doesn't make a vehicle type that I prefer while BMW does: the i3.

 

[bwilson4web]

. . .
That said, I would not buy one, but only because Tesla doesn't make a vehicle type that I prefer while BMW does: the i3.

I would add no BEV car has any allure to us. Plugin hybrid makes most sense today.

Bob Wilson

 

[Kiwi]

. . .
That said, I would not buy one, but only because Tesla doesn't make a vehicle type that I prefer while BMW does: the i3.

I would add no BEV car has any allure to us. Plugin hybrid makes most sense today.

Bob Wilson

This is the same conclusion I came to after owing my 225xe for 20 months. There is no logic in buying a BEV as the extra purchase cost and charging hassles are more than solved by my 225xe. I can travel a distance non stop of 500k on a minimum of 50% battery (250k) and never have to stop to charge. Time is money and having to stop to charge with their long waiting times involved no thanks.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Until we get in-road power and/or readily available 350Kwhr CCS units, except for local travel (which I use my i3 BEV for) an ICE or hybrid is almost required if your requirement is to be able to go anywhere at anytime. I use my BEV almost all of the time since I rarely exceed its range and can then let it recharge at home. My ICE gives me the flexibility to go anywhere with its over 500-mile range when on the highway. For people that rarely need the flexibility of an ICE, it may just be more economical to rent or borrow a more suitable car once you figure in the extra cost of the maintenance on the ICE and the additional cost to purchase verses a pure EV. That $3500 or so the REx adds to the cost would pay for at least some rental cars.

 

[prettig]

I3 (even REX) is local distance (unless you have the time to plan and wait at chargers, I don't). We have a hybrid for long distances as well.
Next thing will be a long range EV (and home and office DC charging), then it makes sense.
I hate and try to avoid public charging (only FAST DC is an option for me, just like filling up an ICE).

And i3 long range.... no, no, no..... even 44kw will not do it, so it will be a different brand (BMW has no long range EV the next years).

Model 3 (the topic): range yes, price yes..... but looks: no (just don't like it).
But I bet the model 3 will be huge success and will put a lot of pressure on the others.

 

[Kiwi]

Purchasing a Model 3 is going against the trend of sedans which are almost dead for new car buyers.
What I'm waiting to appear is Jeeps Wrangler JL plug in next year. If it's any good their good be a spot in my garage replacing our 2 series convertible.

 

[I33t]

Purchasing a Model 3 is going against the trend of sedans which are almost dead for new car buyers.
What I'm waiting to appear is Jeeps Wrangler JL plug in next year. If it's any good their good be a spot in my garage replacing our 2 series convertible.

The Model 3 might not be a brand or vehicle you like Kiwi, but cars of that size have a major part of the sales in just about any country. Definitely not 'almost dead' Every major brand sells many cars of that size.

Good luck with your wrangler, but it will be one of the least efficient electric cars due to it's lack of effective aerodynamics. Would be less efficient than the Tesla S which is way less efficient than the i3. At least the electric version will be more reliable than normal Wranglers...

Tesla is in plan for profitably by 2020. Currently expecting profitable to be earlier than 2020. Building a large business from zero takes a long time to become profitable.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4078369-tesla-can-profitable-2018

 

[frictioncircle]

Detouring back to the ACC conversation from last week:

alohart wrote:
I almost always drive with ACC on and always monitor the instrument panel when driving. When ACC detects a vehicle ahead, a red car icon is displayed in the top center of the instrument panel. If we are approaching a vehicle ahead and the red icon does not appear when I know that it should, I disconnect ACC and take over driving. This has happened twice since we purchased our i3 in 2014, so it's no big deal.

I'm a light user of ACC since 2014 and wanted to share my first non-detection experience from last week.

Like others have said, ACC is primitive. The tech was probably validated back in 2012 or 2013 for production so it's been around a good while. I use it as an assist as I've had more than a few random disconnects in the past.

Last week I had ACC on, set for 72 with a three-brick following distance. Traffic was moving well as it was a few hours before the rush hour. Ahead of me, beyond the system's range, was a cab truck with a long flatbed, no side rails – the kind your lumber yard would use to deliver a load of drywall. It had taillights, but they weren't on and the truck was dirty (low-contrast).

It was fascinating to watch ACC fail to acquire the truck at the expected distance. Our closing speed was not more than 2-3 mph and I let the system go until there was about a car length left between us – still no "red car" icon. ACC would have happily driven me right up into the back of the truck had I not disengaged.

I give the system a short leash, but this is the first time I've seen it be completely oblivious to a vehicle.

 

[bwilson4web]

Detouring back to the ACC conversation from last week:
. . .
Last week I had ACC on, set for 72 with a three-brick following distance. Traffic was moving well as it was a few hours before the rush hour. Ahead of me, beyond the system's range, was a cab truck with a long flatbed, no side rails – the kind your lumber yard would use to deliver a load of drywall. It had taillights, but they weren't on and the truck was dirty (low-contrast).

It was fascinating to watch ACC fail to acquire the truck at the expected distance. Our closing speed was not more than 2-3 mph and I let the system go until there was about a car length left between us – still no "red car" icon. ACC would have happily driven me right up into the back of the truck had I not disengaged.

I give the system a short leash, but this is the first time I've seen it be completely oblivious to a vehicle.

I have seen similar intermittent behavior following other vehicles. I've found cycling the ACC works as it quickly sees the previously undetected vehicle.

Bob Wilson

 

[jhu321]

Acc uses image processing and recognition to establish where the car its following is. If you read up on mobileeye’s technology you’ll find it uses some heuristic short cuts to achieve what ifs doing. It has a pattern it’s looking for and if it doesn’t find the pattern in the 2d image it capture its none the wiser.

At the base of it. It’s looking for 3 reflectors. 2 tail 1 brake light. It recognizes most cars. Some motorcycles. I’ve seen it recognize most semi and box trucks as long as they have that lower crash bar with reflectors. I’ve seen it fail on numerous occasions with non typical light configurations. It’s seen it fail 100 percent of the time with Dodge Chargers where the entire tail lights up. It’s 2014 technology and they haven’t really updated the heuristics since the.

Now that being said. I’ve noticed that my mom’s 2018 530e is much much better at recognizing cars ahead than my 2014 i3. So I’m gonna guess a lot of this stuff is hard wired into the mobile eye chip.

 

[frictioncircle]

This rig I was following definitely had a non-standard layout of lighting. As I recall it had three round reflectors per side with no CHMSL.

The rig's bed was also abnormally low (never seen one that low in a long time) so this was probably well outside of what the system was designed to recognize.

Didn't know that Mobileye is what the i3 is built on. Anyone with a 2018 care to share details on how the ACC performs? I was hoping for a technology update!

 

[jadnashuanh]

Back to the 'ordered a Tesla Model 3?' issue...reports out recently imply that Tesla will break the 200K sales figure in the USA sometime this year. Depending on when exactly that occurs, that triggers the extinction of the federal tax credit...for the quarter it occurs in, and the following, it remains...then for the next two quarters, it is halved, the following 2 quarters, it is 1/4, then it totally expires. So, say it happens before the end of the third quarter, by the end of 2019, there will be no federal credits left for Tesla. GM probably won't be all that far behind, followed by Nissan. If you've ordered a Tesla, and you don't get it by the end of 2019, you probably won't have any federal tax credit, and most of 2019, it will either be halved, or only at 25%, if it still exists at all. Depending on what local or state incentives there may be, that may make the financial decision point towards something else.