Actual usage of DC charger on a REx

[user 1435]

Hi -- first post from a (nearly) REx owner...

I am contemplating a REx without a DC charger, on the basis that, leaving moral scruples aside, on a long trip it is always going to be quicker to get another 70 miles available by filling up the petrol tank than by charging the battery for 30 minutes. Now I know that many people advise getting the DC charger as an investment on the basis that in 3 years time there are bound to be many more CCS chargers around. But even if that were so, it seems that the cost advantage would be minimal at best. Current Chargemaster rates are £7.50 for 30 minutes (for only 80%), which compares with about £11 to fill the tank up to the brim.

I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who has a REx and a DC and who regularly travels distances long enough to have to make this choice. Also does anyone with a REx bother to park their car for a few hours to charge at a fast charger. Does that ever make sense?

Thanks!

 

[Jeffj]

One other thing to consider (if you are buying rather than leasing): Trying to sell an i3 in the future without a DCFC is going to be more difficult. Word is that BMW is making this a standard feature on the 2015's.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Depending on the length of your trip and the road conditions, your speeds and especially the grades involved, at some point, you may have run your batteries down and the REx, even though it continues to run, may not be enough power to keep you going as you desire. Whether that will happen to you is very dependent on the trip involved. But, consider that as I understand it, when running essentially on the REx output, you're getting about 50mpg (imperial) at best...good, but not great.

 

[user 1435]

Thanks for the comments. I am familiar with the argument about ease of reselling: I suppose I am interested in getting beyond that. Even if DC charging becomes a standard feature and chargers crop up everywhere, why would anyone with a REx bother to use it?

It sounds as though there may be an edge condition where through an oversight you've let your battery get close to zero. I'm still not familiar with the technicalities here. If your battery is down to 5% (or whatever) is the REx capable of gradually building it up to a point at which performance is not affected? Even if it can't, why can't you just keep topping up the petrol tank until you get home? If it's not already clear, I'm talking about the UK.

 

[Dee123]

Hi there,

I was in a similar dilemma when ordering my ReX. I initially excluded the DC option but added it later. If I were leasing or doing PCP, I would have excluded DC. Buying, I think it's necessary.

In line with the discussion of future resale value, I have seen that DC is becoming standard. Without DC, the i3 will quickly become archaic...

I am surprised at the exorbitant rates in England for DC charging. While it's still free in Scotland, I expect that once it becomes "payant" it won't be ridiculously expensive - probably the same cost of a home charge given that most points have been installed by the Scottish government. Based on the likelihood of cheaper DC charging than petrol, I added DC. I may be wrong... Time will tell.

Do you have DC stations near you? Another thing that helped my decision is the fast implementation of CCS in my area. Already have four along routes I regularly take!

 

[BrianStanier]

Rex will only hold the state of charge at the time it is engaged.

If time is of the essence then refilling the tank will be quicker. But it uses petrol rather than electricity and many of us would prefer to drive in a more eco-friendly way. Also many of the rapid chargers are free at present and some use renewable energy.

Some of us need bladder stops and/or dog walks at frequent intervals so a 30 minute pit stop may be required anyway.

If you can charge - often for free - at a fast or rapid charger while shopping or whatever why not do so?

I regard the Rex as a temporary solution to the limited range for use only when absolutely necessary. Yes it can be used continuously for long trips as I have done (no CCS chargers in the early days) but it's a last resort.

 

[user 1435]

Thanks - very clear answers.

At this point I think I should clarify things myself! My dilemma is whether to grab a 1 year-old used Rex that has all the features I want (except for DC and Driving Assistant +) with a saving of £4000 on new and almost instant delivery, or wait 5 months and pay through the nose.

Kind of sounds like a no-brainer when I put it like that!

 

[amateurish]

I've used DC charge a few times, but only using ecotricity points, and then only when I had time to kill. To be honest, it's not something I would miss. I certainly wouldn't pay Chargemaster £7.50 to use it. To my mind, Rex really negates the need for rapid charging.

 

[user 1435]

That feels right to me. However I just heard from a retailer who told me that leasing companies won’t supply i3s without a DC rapid charger , which he believes is to ensure a strong residual value on the basis that once there are more on the secondhand market people are likely to be looking for i3s with them.

On the other hand you could say the same about other options...

 

[FrancisJeffries]

I have a Rex, and decided to remove the DC charge option from my original order.
I have done several long journeys using the Rex from full to empty and then continuing to the next service station on battery and then refilling with petrol. It works a treat and without range anxiety. (And I don't carry a spare can, either.)
My thinking was that even with plenty of DC charging points on main roads - and them being available AND working - it takes 20 minutes to charge to 80%. 80% of 64 miles is only 51 miles to the next stop and that's not very far ignoring range anxiety! I seem to get at least 90 miles on 9 litres bombing along the motorways and it takes only 5 minutes to top the tank up.
I know - I know - it's not green... but where does the electricity come from anyway? Power stations, right? So I'm guilt-free all the time, because most of my miles are short journeys anyway, and I don't need a second ICE car for the long ones!
BTW: my salesman told me that BMW said all company car purchases had to be fitted with the DC charge option - by order of BMW! But when I asked BMW UK they denied that is the case. So it's "You shall fit ze DC charger! :twisted: "

 

[WoodlandHills]

Francis, the usage scenario you describe for long journeys is exactly why NA buyers need to have full control over the REx. You never allow your SOC to get near the danger zone and you can do the last leg on electricity. For shorter trips one can revert to being a BEV with an extender as is forced upon NA buyers by CARB. It makes so much sense to be able to operate in two distinct modes......

 

[user 1435]

Congratulations on a perfectly rational utilisation of your car Francis. I'm a great believer in lateral thinking, and what you've stumbled on is the i3 REx's capability as an "alternative hybrid", which you can drive for the pure pleasure of the electric motor, while remaining agnostic about the source of energy. Of course it's a shame if you have to burn fossil fuels, as opposed to a certified ecologically generated electricity supplier. But as things stand in the rapid charger world (both in terms of economivcs and physics) you are making the most logical use of your car.

By the way congratulations too on your 'notable' previous cars. You clearly believe in only driving cars of character. I had a Citroën GSA Pallas for eight years. I adored it amongst other things for hydro pneumatic suspension and the superbly stable castor-like steering. Together with the bonnet being invisible from the driving seat it felt like I was driving a flying saucer. The i3 is only the latest car I have aspired to as a means of recapturing that impression.

 

[nowtta60]

My thoughts on DC fitting are what happens if they up the charge rate from 50kW?
What if Telsa let BMW owners use superchargers?
What if you get a next gen battery in 5 years for £3,000 and it can take 50kWh at 400kW?

What if all of that happened and you hadn't specced DC charging and it can't be retrofitted.

Also what if you want to do 300+ miles in a day and will be passing by a services with food and a CCS? You can do 150 miles on the first tank+charge. Stop for lunch charge on the CCS, and get unleaded on the way out. Do another 150 miles. and then fill up and trickle charge over night. Doing petrol you'd have 1 extra fuel stop, which might add 10 minutes or more on to the journey, much more than it took to plug into a CCS during lunch.

It will be intersting to see how much ecotriciity charge for CCS. Free for now, but maybe only till next year.

£2.88 is what the electric costs of 18kWh (80% of a battery is). I think competition will see people like chargemaster lowering their prices from £7.50. Plus places like supermarkets might offer it free with £x spent on shopping.

I've been paying attention to how I drive in my current ICE. I do 150 miles on a Sunday and Friday. Sunday I tend to try and do in 1 go, but sometimes the car is out of fuel so I stop and splash and dash. On the Friday I hit Oxford around rush hour on the A34, so sometimes pull off and go to KFC / Maccie D as I'm only hlaf way home. The servies with KFC has an ecotricity charge point, which if I had the i3 already would be getting a eletric top up whilst eating as long as it's cheaper than unleaded. This woul dbe followed by a splash of unleaded at the services. When you're next to a charge point you may as well fill up as long as it's cheaper than unleaded.

Funnily last time I went there a megane scenic drove up and ICEd it. I was enraged thinking what is wrong with you people. The problem is they are the 2 spots closest to the restaurants and loos.

 

[i3Alan]

That feels right to me. However I just heard from a retailer who told me that leasing companies won’t supply i3s without a DC rapid charger , which he believes is to ensure a strong residual value on the basis that once there are more on the secondhand market people are likely to be looking for i3s with them.

You need to not pay too much attention to what salespeople say. Do you really believe that every i3 on lease is a REX? The residuals are 100% dependent on the MSRP and zero percent dependent on whether $700 of that MSRP is for DCFC or not. Lease and OC deals have identical residuals, and my OC is for my i3 without DCFC.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Even if you don't feel the need for the DC fast charge option now, when it comes time to sell or return your car from lease, there should be LOTS more of the charge points around, and it could lower the demand for it quite a bit if that option was absent. It's a gamble...if you're lucky, you can use it now. More should be able to use it in the next year, and who knows as time goes on.

 

[hrmandell]

In Cali, there are really few DC chargers with a J1772 plus DC. Lots more for the Leaf. That is about to change. BMW has a less expensive DC charger available, is in discussions with Tesla for joint charging and plans a wider system. The 2015 will have DC standard. If you are looking at a 2014, I'd get the DC because things will be much different, i suspect in a year.

 

[Tobias]

I find the DC charging is impressive (and worth it, while it's free with Ecotricity). I strongly suspect that it will pay for itself on resale, and that it'll likely make resale easier.

But the fact is that anyone who owns an i3 today is an early adopter in a field of rapidly changing technology. I love being part of it, but there are so many VHS/Betamax aspects to EV technology, I am treating this purchase as an indulgence, and closing my eyes to the financial implications.

I speak as someone who suffered 91% depreciation over 3 years on a Mitsubishi iMiev. And if in the next 3 or 4 years EV cars have evolved as much again as they have from the iMiev to the i3 (think Palm Pilot compared to an iPhone), then at least I won't be as shocked as I was last time!

 

[Stevei3]

Hi guys,

because the i3/REx is first and foremost an electric vehicle, all charging options should have been standard IMHO... I wouldn't want to miss our CCS connection. This weekend, for instance, we charged seven times at various 50kW chargers on our weekend trip (~800km, 0km REx, all electric). Works like advertised
I have to admit that we, in the Netherlands, are seemingly having an 'electric spring' for we have ~60 CCS chargers in operation right now. It may not sound like a lot, but it means that in our small, flat country, electric trips in excess of 250km have become a reality. Maybe the rest of the world will follow ?

Regards, Steven

 

[nowtta60]

I find the DC charging is impressive (and worth it, while it's free with Ecotricity). I strongly suspect that it will pay for itself on resale, and that it'll likely make resale easier.

But the fact is that anyone who owns an i3 today is an early adopter in a field of rapidly changing technology. I love being part of it, but there are so many VHS/Betamax aspects to EV technology, I am treating this purchase as an indulgence, and closing my eyes to the financial implications.

I speak as someone who suffered 91% depreciation over 3 years on a Mitsubishi iMiev. And if in the next 3 or 4 years EV cars have evolved as much again as they have from the iMiev to the i3 (think Palm Pilot compared to an iPhone), then at least I won't be as shocked as I was last time!

That's kind of why I went with the i3 instead of a Telsa. A) coz I can't afford a Telsa yet... B) I'll pass the i3 on to the Mrs - when she finally learns to drive, which means we can cost the depreciation it over 6 years instead of 3. C) Imagine the depriciation on a £63k Telsa not in % but in £... even if it keeps 50% over 3 years. I'm happy to hang on until the Model 3 and only lose £35k max. - to bring it to zero.

As to the op... I decided DC/CCS and REX is a nice option as I'm planning on keeping the car a long time. Given that a new set of battery cells is £10k at current market prices. I make that in 10 years time they'll be £5,000 based on the annual price decrease averaging 7%. And they'll weigh only 40% of what they are now. Which kind of gives you the option to go for a 50kWh pack of the same weight as it was built with, but back at the £10,000 price. That's unless Satki3 get their solid state betteries into large scale production and costs plummet to $90/kWh. That's about £2,800 for a 50kWh pack. Depending on the weight/volume you may even be able to ditch the REX and get a 75kWh pack on board (£4,200!).

The thoretical max for CCS is 400kW charging. Which could see a 75kWh pack charged in 11 minutes. Especially if it's only 75kWh of a 100kWh pack! Will have to see. Obviously without the CCS you'll be stuck with level 2 charging @ 7kW. Really I think BMW should factor in that CCS is the future and fit it as standard. These cars will be around much longer than the first owner... regardless of the future resale.

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, at least in the USA, the CCS charging port is claimed to become standard equipment on i3s sold in this country for 2015 MY. I bought it, hoping we actually get some around close enough to use, or along the routes I might like to travel.