AC Condenser Damage - 2015 BMW i3 REX

[Anonymous]

I have my #5 stainless steel woven wire mesh (74% open area) and look forward to reading your installation instructions.

Posted in Mods and Acc.

"AC Condenser Protection - A How To"

 

[Bsarhad]

Hey guys! In the process of doing this my self.

Do I absolutely need a new AC manifold(intake pipe)? I assumed all I would need is a new condenser in addition to the refrigerant & oil.

Thanks!

 

[Bsarhad]

First off, you NEED to be sure that the condenser has a drier in it. You need that. This write up completely overlooks that, I just put everything back together(1 week of down time). Now I have to go through the process all over again and buy the correct condenser with a drier in it.

ALSO, remove the condenser through the BOTTOM of the car. Praying and forcing it by taking out of the top and “trying not to damage all the fins” is completely unnecessary. I just dropped it in & out through the bottom - 2 screws hold a plastic price below the radiator/condenser.

 

[robbz23]

Unfortunately I am in this same position with my 2014 Rex. I have a third party warranty and I thought it was safe taking my car to the stealership to diagnose what was wrong with the AC system. After a $250 diagnosis they determined that it was a rock in the condenser and it would cost another $1100 to fix it. It kills me that their diagnosis cost more than the labor they have for replacement. Ok well it's my turn to fix it the same way and add some sort of screen in front of it so that I also don't end up with it happening again. I do have some questions based on my on research.

DO NOT USE PAG-ANYTHING!

BMW was as confusing as possible around the AC oil. It seems like they couldn't make up their minds
on which oil to use since all the documentation is conflicting. (Hell, even the can of BMW AC oil is conflicting.

However, additional research shows PAG-ANYTHING will damage the electric compressor and your car. Even though the SP-A2 is
labeled for R1234yf (and even says *DO NOT USE ON R134a systems* on the can, it is compatible with R134a and R1234yf per this:
https://www.behrhellaservice.com/behr-hella-service/assets/media/Compressor_Oils_EN.pdf

My 2015 has a BMW part number for the AC oil, which matches the can of Sanden SP-A2. My car is also R134a. I feel like BMW were going to have all BMW i3's use R1234yf, but changed their mind to R134a at the last minute for the 2014, 2015 years. The SP-A2 can saying "do not use on R134a" is really saying "don't use it on traditional mechanical compressor vehicles (since it won't mix with PAG-ANYTHING).

To make matters even more confusing, the BMW AC sticker says "PAG 2339920" which when you look up 2339920 you find a the SP-A2 (which i'm pretty sure is a POE oil, not PAG)

The electric compressors require an AC lube with a high "dielectric strength" since it co-exists with the motor windings for the AC compressor. Using something conductive like PAG-ANYTHING will result in arcing within the compressor and damage your compressor/battery.

tldr: use SP-A2 if your car says "PAG 2339920" and DON'T use any PAG.

As far as I could tell you are wrong about the PAG. From what I read here http://www.airstal.com/dokumenty/atsb83-05-2017.pdf

Sanden has made a version that they call SP-A2 and they use it in both their mechanical and electrical compressors – that very interesting indeed due to
the fact that most of the other OEM producers use POE oil with a very high di-electrical strength in order to avoid any possible conflicts between the motor
windings and the lubricant. It might be that Sanden have added some features that improves the di-electrical strength so it reaches the same level as the
POE has...it will require a separate analysis and test to find out the di-electricak strength of the SP-A2.

You are correct in that normal PAG oils will create arcing if the oil comes in contact with the coil winding. It seems that BMW used R134 and R1234YF at the same time depending on the market the car was destined for, but both types of refrigerant in the i3 used the same SP-A2. More information is here https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...g/64-53-condenser-dryer-with-lines/1VnXj85WOR

I had one question I had about the amount of oil to add though. It seems that they recommend 40ml of additional oil when replacing a condenser with the integrated dryer. https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ing/64-53-condenser-dryer-with-lines/1LEbCldB

 

[symonray]

I had similar damage to my 2016 i3 Rex caused by road debris, and the AC repair was covered under my auto comprehensive/collision policy.

 

[i3Houston]

I had similar damage to my 2016 i3 Rex caused by road debris, and the AC repair was covered under my auto comprehensive/collision policy.

totally forgot about that! what was the estimate cost of repair.

 

[i3Alan]

I had similar damage to my 2016 i3 Rex caused by road debris, and the AC repair was covered under my auto comprehensive/collision policy.

totally forgot about that! what was the estimate cost of repair.

My AC damage was caused by faulty design. The compressor self destructed and spewed metal filings throughout the system. My quote to repair was $22292.65. I decided not to repair it. Traded it in for salvage and got $8477, for a vehicle with a pre-AC failure fair market value of $15940. To soften my loss, as a goodwill gesture, BMW sent me a check for $2000, so I am "only" out $5942 (and no i3).

 

[SSi3]

My AC damage was caused by faulty design. The compressor self destructed and spewed metal filings throughout the system. My quote to repair was $22292.65. I decided not to repair it. Traded it in for salvage and got $8477, for a vehicle with a pre-AC failure fair market value of $15940. To soften my loss, as a goodwill gesture, BMW sent me a check for $2000, so I am "only" out $5942 (and no i3).

Ouch... this is why i traded my 2015 in, no way was I going to trust it outside of warranty, and anyone that does is playing russian (german?) roulette.

 

[Anonymous]

Ouch... this is why i traded my 2015 in, no way was I going to trust it outside of warranty, and anyone that does is playing russian (german?) roulette.

True - but with some pretty long odds. The major customer survey companies rate the i3 as extremely reliable.

About 150,000 i3's sold world-wide, with some 'high-miler's' out there, a third well above 50,000 miles, and even some with over 100,000 miles on the clock.

If even 1% had major systems failures, that would be 1,500 cars out of 150,000, which would be slamming the boards with their stories, and would certainly trigger a recall. My guess is there is a pretty low chance of having an i3 with a major (expensive) system failure of any kind, most of which happen when under factory warranty.

Sucks to be the one that gets hit with the perfect storm though - a bad Dealership that botches the initial diagnosis/repair which likely caused the failure and won't take responsibility, and the regional BMW NA area manager who is just as bad, backing the dealer over the customer.

 

[Renni1986]

2014 i3 Rex.

I'm having an issue w/ my hybrid battery cooling circuit - there is an electronically controlled Expansion Valve on the rear pass side of the batt that is throwing a code (P0CE1) "Stuck On". No cabin A/C but appears to be cooling batt ok. I have the part ordered and now I'm just waiting for it to arrive (of course this happens in July during record high streaks...).

QUESTION:
Regarding the oil Sanden SP-A2, if I'm not pulling apart the compressor do I really need to add any oil after I evacuate the refrigerant? Looking at shop manual it would leave me to believe I don't if I don't lose more than 150g of r134a that I don't need to top up the fluid. Otherwise I'll be forking over another $100 to the dealer for the can of SP-A2. Certainly don't want to use the "universal oil" that the shop said they had.......

Any insight you can provide is helpful. Great post and well written, thanks!

 

[flyinglizards]

Anyone know where I can get PAG oil equiv to the Sanden SP-A2?

BMW has Refrigerant Oil Sanden Sp A2 832550 - BMW (83-22-2-339-920) but it's backordered for 4 weeks to come from Germany. Apparently only 4 cans in the country and it's spoken for.

Mahle shows equiv ACPL9000P but it's not available anywhere in USA in so far as my search goes.

Hella 8FX351213141 is also equiv to SP-A2 but can't find it.

 

[Nile i3]

A quick side note, i've been keeping those steps updated with how to change the condenser + charge the system.
The AC oil was a horrible mess since BMW is all over the place on what to use. Let me know if anything looks wrong.. I spent way too much time trying to decode what BMW wanted me to use

The car is making 38F air, and the compressor quieted down quite a bit once I injected the oil. Time will tell, but results are positive so far.

I own a full-on EV 2015 i3. had catastrophe compressor failure. BMW is full of Shit when it comes to AC repairs or their i3. I will have to replace compressor

4 hours in. *definitely* going to put the hardware cloth in-front of the condenser. To change the condenser you must:

Warning: By following the steps here, you're taking the continued functionality of your
BMW i3 into your own hands. New electric AC compressors run several thousand dollars.

Don't blame me if you follow my steps and something goes horribly wrong.
Don't assume anything since this is not a normal R134a system.
Don't ask your local auto-part store... they don't know.

If you had all the right parts at hand, this is still going to be a 2-3 day job.
(have backup transportation)

My car specs:
* R134a, REX, non-heat-pump.
* All R134a is missing since it leaked out with damage.
* If you have a slow leak, remove + dispose of R134a properly. (maybe call an AC tech?)

Requirements:
* AC Manifold. Buy new. (Everyone should have one.. handy, also you must not contaminate your system with PAG oil)
* AC Vac Pump. Rent. They say "not for use on electric / hybrid cars". I think they're worried about contamination, however, if you're pulling a vacuum I'm not sure how big of a risk it is.
* Cans of freon matching sticker on car. > 2016 or later... likely R1234yf, 2015 or before likely R134a
* Sanden SP-A2 AC OIL (I think it's POE and *NOT* PAG) (You might need to contact BMW parts for this.. I found a small new can on eBay for $49)
* New condenser. The ports should be sealed, don't open until on car. There is a desiccant built-in so need to keep moisture out of it.
* A garage of tools.
* New / Clean AC oil injector. Don't use reuse one that has been used for PAG-*

Notes:
* The AC is used to cool the battery. If it is hot out, it'll kick on by itself for cooling.
* Without a functional AC, don't level 3 charge.
* Without a functional AC, try not to level 2 charge when car is hot.
* I'm assuming level 1 charging doesn't need the AC
* If you contaminate the system with PAG oil (even trace amounts in used lines) bad things will happen

Steps:
* Remove frunk container.
* Move all fluid tanks out the way.
* Remove both front wheel well plastic panels. (You don't have to take the tires off, start at the top)
* Remove front bumper.
* Remove headlights
* Remove the annoying metal brackets blocking removal of the cross member.
* Remove cross member.
* Remove all ducting.
* Remove cooling fan.
* Gently move radiator out of the way by scooting (prying) it back (it's *TIGHT*) without destroying all the fins.
* Separate radiator from the condenser
* Pull condenser.
* Replace O-rings.
* Put system back together somewhat. (make sure all AC related connectors are attached)
* Attach quick connect lines to High / Low ports.
* Attach Vac to the yellow line.
* Open BLUE + RED. Pull a vacuum on the system
* Close ALL knobs on the manifold. turn the vac off. take note of high/low pressure. Wait 45 minutes.
* Check for leaks (loss of pressure). Any loss of pressure... stop and fix the leak.
* Turn Vac on. Open BLUE + RED valves. Vac out for 60 minutes straight if no issues found.
* Close BLUE + RED AC manifold valves
* Put on leather gloves, engage safety squints. (don't skip this step, R134a to the skin hurts + burns)
* Ensure you have plenty of ventilation. (Don't inhale R134a)
* Disconnect Vac, attach a bottle of *plain* R134a to the yellow line.
* Open can.
* Bleed air from the yellow line by momentarily loosening the connection at the manifold. Watch for flying R134a. Retighten.
* Plug drivers seatbelt in. Sit down. Turn car on. Set MAX AC
* This will let you keep the car running while not sitting in it. Handy for hot texas days as well.
* Slowly open the BLUE LOW-PRESSURE valve. *NEVER OPEN RED HIGH PRESSURE WHEN CAN ATTACHED. It will explode.*
* Gently shake the bottle and watch for freon entering system. My car shows 750g which is 26.45547 oz. That's two full cans == 24 oz.
* Swap cans by shutting LOW valve, shutting can. Detaching, attaching, bleeding freon. Opening can + LOW valve.
* You'll need to weigh the last can. Put on a scale while connected, tare, and try to get as close to the remaining coolant amount as possible.
* Close valves, disconnect. Cold air should be present.
* Add 30 ml SP-A2 oil via an injection tool. (per https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ing/64-53-condenser-dryer-with-lines/1LEbCldB) Make sure you bleed out any air from the tool prior to use.
* Work in reverse. See the BMW service manual for bolt torques. To be honest, "very snug" is likely fine for most. I'd torque the cross member though since it is used in a crash.

DO NOT USE PAG-ANYTHING!

BMW was as confusing as possible around the AC oil. It seems like they couldn't make up their minds
on which oil to use since all the documentation is conflicting. (Hell, even the can of BMW AC oil is conflicting.

However, additional research shows PAG-ANYTHING will damage the electric compressor and your car. Even though the SP-A2 is
labeled for R1234yf (and even says *DO NOT USE ON R134a systems* on the can, it is compatible with R134a and R1234yf per this:
https://www.behrhellaservice.com/behr-hella-service/assets/media/Compressor_Oils_EN.pdf

My 2015 has a BMW part number for the AC oil, which matches the can of Sanden SP-A2. My car is also R134a. I feel like BMW were going to have all BMW i3's use R1234yf, but changed their mind to R134a at the last minute for the 2014, 2015 years. The SP-A2 can saying "do not use on R134a" is really saying "don't use it on traditional mechanical compressor vehicles (since it won't mix with PAG-ANYTHING).

To make matters even more confusing, the BMW AC sticker says "PAG 2339920" which when you look up 2339920 you find a the SP-A2 (which i'm pretty sure is a POE oil, not PAG)

The electric compressors require an AC lube with a high "dielectric strength" since it co-exists with the motor windings for the AC compressor. Using something conductive like PAG-ANYTHING will result in arcing within the compressor and damage your compressor/battery.

tldr: use SP-A2 if your car says "PAG 2339920" and DON'T use any PAG.

It's quite a job. I don't blame BMW for the hours... but the parts are still outrageous
With a garage of tools, buying a new condenser, and buying the needed AC tools.. I came out at $300 to repair myself vs the $1,975+ BMW wants. If I was faced with this issue again I'd DIY it again in a heartbeat.

Update: Two weeks of Texas heat, still working fine.

Good stuff! I experienced a full-on AC compressor failure with metal shards throughout the system. BMW is Full of Shit in regards to AC repairs or service on the i3. I am sitting on a Boat Anchor that sits in the Garage. I am doing a lot of research before I dig into this endeavor. I don't have any doubt that the repair can be done. This script is very helpful and with the other information I have found, I feel confident that I can get this done. I will keep y'all up to date on the process and procedures I take to resolve the BMW Bull Shit total vehicle cost of the repair.