2014 i3 REX with 11.7 Batt Kappa Max

[petern12]

Hello everyone. I've just "inherited" my 2nd 2014 i3 from my dad, who is fed up with the depleted range and already got himself an iX. Here's what I've done/gathered so far: 1) Charge to full daily for the last week and then also run Batt Kappa Max daily. Results have been consistently ~11.7, well below the 13.2 70% mark. Range fully charged have been 45-50. My style of driving is moderate, somewhat economy conscious, but not a hypermiler. Mix of 60/40 hwy/city. Ambient temps in Northern CA during the day/at time of testing have been in the high 60's to mid 70's. 2) I called a BMW dealer service dept with the VIN number and they were able to to confirm that the battery is still under warranty within the 10 years/ 150k miles from first in-service date, March 2015 (one of the few perks of living in CA) 3) They recommend bringing the car in for them to run the in-house capacity test. If results confirms a sub-70% capacity, the battery will be repaired for free and the fee for the test will be waived. If not, I'll be stuck with the $250 test fee.

I think a consistent 11.7 batt kappa max makes it a fairly good bet that the in-house capacity test will "rule" in my favor but would like to hear from the community in case there's something else I failed to consider. Thanks you!

 

[mojo]

I've never had to deal with this myself, but having read about it a bit, one the BMW "catches" is that the first stage in the process of the formal BMW test is to update the car's software/firmware. This generally seems to have the effect of improving the battery stats, as seen by Kappa Max. Whether it also changes what is seen by the formal test (perhaps by allowing the test process to use more of the "reserved" upper and lower battery buffer) we have no way of knowing.

So - it's a bit of a gamble. I think if it were mine with those numbers, I would probably go for it, as it may make the car a bit more valuable at resale.

 

[EvanstonI3]

That is the lowest number I have seen anyone post publicly. All signs are in your favor but the only way to be certain is to pay to have the Dealer do the test. It is in THEIR favor to fail it because they get paid a very large amount of money to change out that battery pack if necessary under warranty.
$250 for the test fee is a steal even if you end up paying it.

 

[petern12]

That is the lowest number I have seen anyone post publicly. All signs are in your favor but the only way to be certain is to pay to have the Dealer do the test. It is in THEIR favor to fail it because they get paid a very large amount of money to change out that battery pack if necessary under warranty.
$250 for the test fee is a steal even if you end up paying it.

Indeed I was shocked by the "shockingly low" number, that's why I repeated the full-charge/re-test cycle for a whole week. And interestingly my dad's i3 only has 56k miles and he has never fast charged, but does plug in every other night using a 16amp Level 2 at home. Yes $250 for the in-house capacity test does sound like a bargain, as I often heard closer to $400. Too bad it was a SoCal BMW dealer I called. I'm in NorCal.

 

[alohart]

Yes $250 for the in-house capacity test does sound like a bargain, as I often heard closer to $400.

An i3 whose integration level is I001-18-11-5xx (November, 2018, system software version) or greater does not need its integration level updated for a dealer to be able to perform the battery pack capacity test. However, I wouldn't be surprised if dealers routinely quote the cost of both the system software update and the capacity test. My dealer quoted ~$400 for both even though our 2014 i3's integration level was I001-18-11-5xx so shouldn't have needed its integration level increased. The battery pack's state of health was ~75%, so I didn't want to waste money on a capacity test that would almost certainly have passed.

If I wanted to have the battery pack capacity test run on an i3 whose integration level was less than I001-18-11-5xx, I would have only its integration level increased initially. Then I would drive it for a couple of months before scheduling the capacity test in hopes that anything that the integration level increase might have done to the BMS resulting in a temporary increase in usable capacity might have settled down by then so that a more accurate capacity test might result.

 

[Neil]

You'd better be cautious on this and not get your hopes up. I have a 2014 Rex, within the 10 years of what I thought was the battery capacity warranty. I took it into the dealer near me, also in northern California, they did the battery test on my car which turned out to be 56% (kappa avg 12.4 over a 3 year period) so I thought I would get a battery replacement. Instead, they came back to me with a quote of over $40k to replace the battery with the statement that the battery capacity warranty is only 8 years, and BMW customer relations barely gave me lip service and said the same thing. Another person told me they got their battery replaced after 8 years at a dealer in Santa Rosa, so I don't understand WTF is going on with my effort. My software is I001-19-07-539. Which dealer did you call?

 

[amalcolmm]

My indicated battery capacity was around 12.7kWh when I took it in. The procedure, as far as I could tell (I'm an electrical engineer who has designed battery management systems, so I think I rather befuddled the tech with over-complicated questions!) discharged the individual sections of the pack to see if it was just an individual section (or maybe even just a cell) that was bad, but they all appeared to be equally degraded. Result: complete new pack at 7 years and 11 months (Phew!). So, petern12, you seem to be well below the threshold, even if they don't need to replace the entire pack.
Neil, I had a look at a file I downloaded when I first got my '14. I can't remember exactly where I found it, but it is named warranty2014.pdf (38 pages). For a BEV, the warranty for the HV battery is still 8 years, but, later on in the California Emissions Warranty section (p28), it clearly states that it is 10 years. Curiously, in DE, OR, PA & WA, it is only 7 years. Go figure. I presume that the state of reference is the one in which it was first registered - was yours initially from another state, which is why they won't honor the California period?

 

[havrla]

This car ideal for battery upgrade to 94Ah or 120Ah

www.i3upgrade.cz

 

[EvanstonI3]

This car ideal for battery upgrade to 94Ah or 120Ah

www.i3upgrade.cz

So get battery replaced under warranty for free or pay thousands of dollars to send it to the Czech Republic for an upgrade.
Decisions, decisions....

 

[havrla]

In Europe, the warranty is 8 years / 100,000 km.
Any car with 60Ah is no longer under battery warranty.

If it's different for you, you're better off.

 

[Neil]

amalcolmm said:
I presume that the state of reference is the one in which it was first registered - was yours initially from another state, which is why they won't honor the California period?

I purchased the car in California and brought it in to the same dealer for the battery check. Is this the same warranty you have? (attached)

 

[alohart]

The HV battery pack is covered by 2 warranties: a warranty against defects and another against excessive capacity loss. The capacity loss warranty is described only once regardless of the state where initial registration occurred. The capacity loss warranty is valid for 8 years/100,000 miles. Although it's not crystal clear to me, it seems like the warranty against defects is the only warranty that is extended to 10 years/150,000 miles in California and a few other states.

I don't understand why the HV battery pack would be covered under an emissions warranty. If the HV battery fails or loses capacity, the emissions emitted by a BEV would not increase. This would require the REx engine to run more, but considering the HV battery pack to be an emissions device for the REx engine seems odd.

 

[amalcolmm]

Is this the same warranty you have? (attached)

Yes, that looks the same.

 

[amalcolmm]

The capacity loss warranty is described only once regardless of the state where initial registration occurred. The capacity loss warranty is valid for 8 years/100,000 miles.

Good catch - I hadn't read that interpretation into it. (Unfortunate for Neil, though )

 

[petern12]

An i3 whose integration level is I001-18-11-5xx (November, 2018, system software version) or greater does not need its integration level updated for a dealer to be able to perform the battery pack capacity test. However, I wouldn't be surprised if dealers routinely quote the cost of both the system software update and the capacity test. My dealer quoted ~$400 for both even though our 2014 i3's integration level was I001-18-11-5xx so shouldn't have needed its integration level increased. The battery pack's state of health was ~75%, so I didn't want to waste money on a capacity test that would almost certainly have passed.

If I wanted to have the battery pack capacity test run on an i3 whose integration level was less than I001-18-11-5xx, I would have only its integration level increased initially. Then I would drive it for a couple of months before scheduling the capacity test in hopes that anything that the integration level increase might have done to the BMS resulting in a temporary increase in usable capacity might have settled down by then so that a more accurate capacity test might result.

Thanks for pointing this out. Will export personal profile onto a usb stick and check. Pretty sure this i3 has an integration level l001-18-5xx as my dad did mention paying for a software update when he had it in for a major service in early 2020. This might end up saving me the cost of a software update when I bring it in for the capacity test.

 

[petern12]

You'd better be cautious on this and not get your hopes up. I have a 2014 Rex, within the 10 years of what I thought was the battery capacity warranty. I took it into the dealer near me, also in northern California, they did the battery test on my car which turned out to be 56% (kappa avg 12.4 over a 3 year period) so I thought I would get a battery replacement. Instead, they came back to me with a quote of over $40k to replace the battery with the statement that the battery capacity warranty is only 8 years, and BMW customer relations barely gave me lip service and said the same thing. Another person told me they got their battery replaced after 8 years at a dealer in Santa Rosa, so I don't understand WTF is going on with my effort. My software is I001-19-07-539. Which dealer did you call?

I called a few Socal dealers while I was down in Irvine visiting my kids. Pretty sure it was BMW of Irvine that confirmed the in-service date and battery still under warranty. I will call some Norcal dealers this week and see if how soon I can bring the car in for the capacity test, hopefully without requiring a sw update.

 

[petern12]

My indicated battery capacity was around 12.7kWh when I took it in. The procedure, as far as I could tell (I'm an electrical engineer who has designed battery management systems, so I think I rather befuddled the tech with over-complicated questions!) discharged the individual sections of the pack to see if it was just an individual section (or maybe even just a cell) that was bad, but they all appeared to be equally degraded. Result: complete new pack at 7 years and 11 months (Phew!). So, petern12, you seem to be well below the threshold, even if they don't need to replace the entire pack.
Neil, I had a look at a file I downloaded when I first got my '14. I can't remember exactly where I found it, but it is named warranty2014.pdf (38 pages). For a BEV, the warranty for the HV battery is still 8 years, but, later on in the California Emissions Warranty section (p28), it clearly states that it is 10 years. Curiously, in DE, OR, PA & WA, it is only 7 years. Go figure. I presume that the state of reference is the one in which it was first registered - was yours initially from another state, which is why they won't honor the California period?

7yrs and 11mos. Wow, talk about being saved by the bell! Glad to hear you got the whole pack replaced. Hopefully my 11.7 kWh will also means the only remedy is to replace the whole pack. Fingers crossed.

 

[amalcolmm]

7yrs and 11mos. Wow, talk about being saved by the bell!

Yeah, I had been tracking the slow decline for years. (I'm an engineer. And one who designs with rechargeable batteries in critical applications, where only 200-300 cycles are likely, so of course I track more things in life than I should.) I reckoned that I would be ready for a replacement in mid-2020, but Covid hit, my mileage dropped precipitously, as did the decline. I wasn't sure how accurate the onboard capacity monitor is, and I wanted some margin for error. Eventually, the 8-year limit approached, so...
Unfortunately, the dealership either wouldn't or couldn't tell me what the measured capacity of each sub-pack was, so I don't have that comparison with the internal monitor to share.

 

[petern12]

So get battery replaced under warranty for free or pay thousands of dollars to send it to the Czech Republic for an upgrade.
Decisions, decisions....

In a perfect world, BMW would offer i3 owners with 60ah battery packs requiring replacement with these options: 1) upgrade to 94ah for $3k out of pocket, 120ah for $6k out of pocket 2) Declare vehicle a total loss/salvage and cut owner a $12k - $15k check ( mileage/condition dependent. This is still a huge saving for BMW from the purported $30k+ it costs them to replace the 60ah pack)

 

[alohart]

This is still a huge saving for BMW from the purported $30k+ it costs them to replace the 60ah pack)

There's no way that replacing a 60 Ah battery pack would cost BMW $30k+. That ridiculous price is due to BMW's huge parts markup and high hourly labor charge.