BMW i Wallbox Pure - hidden costs!

I have just received a quote from Schneider Electric to install a domestic charging point for my new BMW i3 - which is due to arrive in 2 weeks time; they want to charge me £6,106 to fit a BMWi Wallbox Pure when the BMW website states:
"The BMW i Wallbox Pure is £315.00 fitted and includes survey, standard installation, VAT"
I am not a happy customer!

frykfryk said:

I have just received a quote from Schneider Electric to install a domestic charging point for my new BMW i3 - which is due to arrive in 2 weeks time; they want to charge me £6,106 to fit a BMWi Wallbox Pure when the BMW website states:
"The BMW i Wallbox Pure is £315.00 fitted and includes survey, standard installation, VAT"
I am not a happy customer!

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Is there, perhaps, something non-standard about your installation?

There are plenty of other domestic charging point providers, have you got any other quotes to compare ?

I presume you are you the same guy who was tweeting a pdf of your quote to lots of newspapers and magazines a few days ago ? I was searching twitter for i3 news and kept seeing it so I had a read and didn't think it was particularly unreasonable. Schneider make it clear what is included in a standard installation and the length of cable is limited to 15m. The quote I saw required a cable length 10 times longer than that, needed a new switchboard and there was asbestos on site so included H&S involvement too. It also wasn't eligible for the OLEV government grant.

My own experience with Schneider has been very positive. They gave me advice about changing some hardware to increase the capacity at my home and also explained about a diversity assessment which was helpful.

Schneider Electric outsourced the job to a subcontractor, who admitted to me that he wasn't being paid enough to carry out the free survey - let alone the installation. In fact, he told me on the phone that he didn't want to carry out a survey until he had two or three more i3 customers in my area to make it worth his while!

So, I complained to BMW about the subcontractors comments and 2 guys from Schneider Electric (based in Telford) subsequently carried out the onsite survey themselves; I was there with them on the day. There were no tests carried out for asbestos, nor any signs of it.

The subcontractor put together his quote working off half a dozen photos which one of the guys from Schneider Electric had taken on an iPad. The subcontractor was not onsite himself and having already spoken to him, he clearly appears to have simply priced himself out of doing the job. Not very helpful!

BMW have confirmed that "standard installation" constitutes the following:

• Supply & fit miniature circuit breaker to spare way in distribution board
• Install cables as necessary to meet IEE regulations up to a limit of 15 metres for standard installations
• Supply 1x enclosure containing additional protective device
• Up to 1 hole to be drilled through cavity type wall if required
• Supply 1x BMW Pure Wallbox charging unit
• Supply and fit electric smart meter with remote monitoring
• Less OLEV subsidy of 75% of total cost (max £1,000)

The 135 extra metres of cable only costs circa £150. Moreover, there is existing cable trunking in situ, so no additional parts would be required (just to additional labour to lay and secure the cable in the existing cable tray, which is suspended from the garage block ceiling). I am still baffled (and highly frustrated) by the extra £5,500 cost!

I live in Central London and am precisely the type of customer BMW is targeting with their new "megacity" car. The garage block in which I park my car is typical of most residents in the area.

p.s. The OLEV grant was actually included in the quote; the subcontractors opinion was that it might not be eligible.

neilmac said:

Is there, perhaps, something non-standard about your installation?

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Yes, I need an extra 135 metres of cable - for which they want to charge me almost £6,000.

Apologies then frykfryk as it seems that you aren't the person who's quote was being sent to a lot of media sites the other day as that definitely had asbestos issues that needed resolving (which obviously carry significant additional cost).

Have you had any quotes from other chargepoint companies ?

Plug said:

Apologies then frykfryk as it seems that you aren't the person who's quote was being sent to a lot of media sites the other day as that definitely had asbestos issues that needed resolving (which obviously carry significant additional cost).

Have you had any quotes from other chargepoint companies ?

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No, as BMWi had assured me that they would have my Wallbox installed in time and I had only expected to pay a small additional fee for the extra cabling.

frykfryk said:

neilmac said:

Is there, perhaps, something non-standard about your installation?

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Yes, I need an extra 135 metres of cable - for which they want to charge me almost £6,000.

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Hire your own electrician. It's a simple installation any licensed electrician can do it. I have installed a half dozen of them myself.

However I suspect there is something else going on there. I don't know how anyone could charge that much for a simple 135 m extra.

Good luck and please report back!

It is too much money of course, but for that distance you probably need a much heavier and expensive gauge of wire than to go 15 meters.

oldbillygoat said:

It is too much money of course, but for that distance you probably need a much heavier and expensive gauge of wire than to go 15 meters.

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I think this is correct.

Looking at a cable calculator: http://www.cable-calculations.co.uk/test/psc.htm

I specified a 17amp load, 20amp breaker and 135m length. Voltage drop was too high until I specified 16 mm² cable. That is pretty heavy cable, and I bet that is where the expenses rack up. 16 mm² cable is about 4.5mm diameter copper for each conductor. This cable would be a lot dearer than standard cable used for short runs @20A

£6000 still seems pretty expensive, but without knowing where the cable has to run, what conduit is required and how much labour is required to install it we are all in the dark.

Best bet, get a couple of independent quotes to install a 20A circuit to your parking space. Once that is installed, your Siemens install should be by the book.

HTH

To put the £6,000 BMWi Wallbox Pure installation quote from Schneider Electric into perspective:

• £6000 would buy circa 952 gallons of diesel (at £6.30 per gallon)
• 952 gallons of diesel would provide circa 80,000 miles of driving based on a combined fuel consumption of 83.1 mpg (e.g. Volvo V40 D2)

And I'd still have to pay the electricity costs for recharging.

When I emailed my BMW dealer the quote from Schneider Electric the reply was:

"Seems they got you by the you know what’s !!"

I'd be interested to know if any BMW i3 customers have used Schneider Electric to install a Wallbox Pure. And, if so, did they qualify for "standard installation" or was there an exorbitant additional cost.

Latest update: My BMW i3 is due to arrive week commencing 20th Jan 2014.

Hi fryfryk,

I used Schneider, who, like you experienced, outsourced the installation. In my case the installation was very straightforward. The electrician upgraded the existing breaker from the house to the garage from 20A to 40A, they installed an additional breaker and appropriate cabling and wallbox in the garage. Cost to me was £315.00. Installation and dealings with me were very positive.

Chris.

frykfryk said:

To put the £6,000 BMWi Wallbox Pure installation quote from Schneider Electric into perspective:

• £6000 would buy circa 952 gallons of diesel (at £6.30 per gallon)
• 952 gallons of diesel would provide circa 80,000 miles of driving based on a combined fuel consumption of 83.1 mpg (e.g. Volvo V40 D2)

And I'd still have to pay the electricity costs for recharging.

When I emailed my BMW dealer the quote from Schneider Electric the reply was:

"Seems they got you by the you know what’s !!"

I'd be interested to know if any BMW i3 customers have used Schneider Electric to install a Wallbox Pure. And, if so, did they qualify for "standard installation" or was there an exorbitant additional cost.

Latest update: My BMW i3 is due to arrive week commencing 20th Jan 2014.

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My experience with Schneider was also an excellent one. I had a bulk standard install with no extra costs (wall box literally on other side of wall from main fuse box). Installation was sub-contracted to SEC Electrical and their installer was very professional and did a great job.

I used Schneider. They were excellent. Very professional, high quality install and the standard £315 installation cost. I saw one of the alternative installations on this forum and it didn't look up to the Schneider standard to me, in particular no cladding/trunking to the charger. I'd recommend Schneider.

Caught this string and felt I had to comment.

The std install description seems pretty clear and the fact your install has absolutely no relation to it raises a question as to why you use it as a comparison?

Done some digging and found the BMW Wallbox is rated at 32 amps not the 16amp mentioned by another contributor it also calls for a 40 amp breaker and so cable will be sized accordingly.

Using the 130m assuming you would need SWA cable if it's a Garage block then you would be looking at 25 mm2 3 core.

Your comment about cable cost of £150 again questions your knowledge? You would be looking at £10 - 12 per. Meter to buy from a wholesaler this then has to be marked up as we all have to make a living.

On top of that what about the Glands, cleats, ties access equipment ( I assume the cable tray will not be on the floor for obvious reasons?

Then surely you have to buy the Charger itself I would not expect a BMW unit to be cheap plus protective RCDs isolators etc and we haven't got anyone on site yet!


So now we need Labour? Middle of London eh? Congestion charge 2 days, it is obvious you have no concept of the weight and effort required to pull this type of cable at height it would likely need 3 men coupled with the fact you may have traffic using other garages so Health and Safety issues arise to manage this.

You will also have to add VAT as you will not as an individual be Vat registered? That's 20% of the overall cost.

I would suggest you get a comparison price before commenting further?

I would have thought Schneider would have gone through this with you when you questioned the price?

Can you not buy the Charger and get it installed yourself? However I think your expectations of cost are a little ambitious.

Interesting stuff - London pricing always an issue as suggested and the weight of Cu is significant.

But I like the diesel comparison although I very much doubt the Volvo would get that MPG in the real world around London in winter.

Usually get at least 10% drop with my winter tyres and longer warm up times on the 93 MPG (2.88l/100km) A2 and that's on 28 mile commutes.

So alternatively you could get an efficient machine like a s/h Audi A2 1.4 TDI or import a 1.2 TDI and then fit an elsbett system (http://www.a2oc.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-7574.html ) and run it on Waste Veggie Oil WVO - the UK Govt allows you to make your own SVO or WVO tax free :

"There is no longer a requirement to register to pay duty on vegetable oil used as road fuel for those who "produce" or use less than 2,500 litres per year. For those producing over this threshold the biodiesel rate now applies."

Chip fat better used to transport you around than be tipped away blocking up the London Drains!

Hi
Living in Scotland you are eligible for a 100% grant from the Energy Saving Trust to instal their own charge point - you're example is obviously extreme, but they maybe able to do it cheaper than Schneider?
They also offer to cover the £318 extra that Schneider charge for the BMW branded charger, you pay up front and they reimburse.
They can be contacted on 0131 555 7900
Repeat only relevant in Scotland - maybe independence can work?
Good luck.

As has already been noted, you're not limited to using Schneider. Personally I think the BMW charger is hideous - waaaaay too big!

Shop around - don't forget that British Gas will install a Polar charger for free for anyone (although you'd have to pay extra for the additional work you need), and there's other companies and chargers too - I used Charging-Solutions.com for mine; I got a very neat Keba unit (socket, not tethered) with an RFID reader instead of a key. I paid extra for the RFID part but the rest was eligible for the government grant.

I had mine installed by a Schneider subcontractor last week. He was very helpful although it did take a full day which I wasn't anticipating.



Ours would be classed as a non-standard install - it required 2 walls to be drilled through but the subcontractor did not charge any extra for this.

Unfortunately we had a few issues. Namely our fuse box (and I say fuse box because it's the old style box) did not have spare capacity for a 30 AMP connection - and even if it had, the gauge of wire would not have fit! That meant we needed an additional consumer unit which was an extra £180 to install. Not too bad as consumer box installs are normally around £350 around here, but then again it is only a small one.

Along with this, our earth connection for the mains water needed upgrading to 10mm as the existing was only 6mm - which doesn't meet the new regulations. Luckily our mains water feed is only 1 room away from the fuse box so this wasn't too bad (although has left us with some redecorating).

As we don't plan on charging the vehicle in the garage and our garage door is metal that also needed grounding which wasn't quite as big a task because the wall box is right next to the garage door.

There was an extra £240 worth of work/materials on top of the £315. So that's £555. Reading through the governments guidelines it says the grant will cover associated work, so I was pretty sure this would be covered. As it turns out a standard install is £1020 plus £240 for the OLEV meter, @75% that's £315. Phoned up Schneider and they agreed to add the work to their bill so it would be covered under the grant. Unfortunately the grant is capped at £1000 so our install ended up costing £500. Still, better than £555.

So if you have any additional costs (probably not up to £6k, I'd cancel at that point ) it's worth phoning Schneider whilst the electrician is still at your house.

Oh and we're now also waiting for the DNO (distribution network operator) to come out and fit an isolator switch so the electrician can come back and do the final connections and test. It should be free, but it's not ideal - especially if my order hadn't been delayed. Schneider should send people out for surveys before the electrician gets here.

That's a lot of hidden cost. (I'm surprised the electrician didn't grumble about the unprotected cable draped over the light socket. It will get hot.)