What Charger to Get? Clipper Creek HCS 40 or 60?

[vmSeattle]

I'm currently remodeling my garage to, among other things, make room for an i3 that I have on order. I'm trying to figure out which charger to get? I've read elsewhere on this forum and other places that Bosch chargers have had some quality issues. BMW's own Wallbox Pure, while distinctive, is just too large. Clipper Creek seems to get good reviews and I'm looking at their products. In particular, the Clipper Creek HCS-40 looks nice. Great price too. The only problem is, it is a 7.2kW charger (page 20 of http://clippercreek.com/store/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/HCS-40-users-manual_v1.b.pdf) and the BMW i3 can charge at 7.4kW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3). If I install an HCS-40, will it charge a BMW i3 at 7.2kWh or will the car step down to something a lot lower? Do I need to get the HCS-60 at 11.5kW, even though the BMW will not use most of that extra capacity?

 

[vmSeattle]

Totally get that. My question is, If I get a 7.2kW charger, will the car charge at 7.2kW, or will the car's internal charger step down to some lower level?

 

[SDCAi3]

I'm currently remodeling my garage to, among other things, make room for an i3 that I have on order. I'm trying to figure out which charger to get? I've read elsewhere on this forum and other places that Bosch chargers have had some quality issues. BMW's own Wallbox Pure, while distinctive, is just too large. Clipper Creek seems to get good reviews and I'm looking at their products. In particular, the Clipper Creek HCS-40 looks nice. Great price too. The only problem is, it is a 7.2kW charger (page 20 of http://clippercreek.com/store/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/HCS-40-users-manual_v1.b.pdf) and the BMW i3 can charge at 7.4kW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3). If I install an HCS-40, will it charge a BMW i3 at 7.2kWh or will the car step down to something a lot lower? Do I need to get the HCS-60 at 11.5kW, even though the BMW will not use most of that extra capacity?

I'm in the same boat. I'm going to get a Clipper Creek EVSE and was trying do decide on the HCS-40 vs HCS-60. It's been quite a learning experience while trying to make a decision on what EVSE to get. Here's where I'm at: the HCS-40 can pump out a continuous 30A. That will result in 7.2kW if your supply voltage is actually 240V. From what I've read however, your actual line voltage is likely lower, usually in the 215-220V range, and can be as low as 208V. At 208V, that's only 6.24kW. The HCS-60 will provide a continuous 48A, which at 208V is about 10kW. Yes, that's overkill for the i3's 7.4kW charger, but at least you'll be able to charge at the full 7.4kW, which is assuming that between the car's and EVSE's control circuitry, the current is adjusted to the supply voltage to get a full 7.4kW to the car. This effectively translates to about 30 minutes less charging time to recharge a depleted battery. That's not a lot of saved time and really won't matter if you charge overnight, but I'm thinking 1) for the extra ~$300 for the HCS-60 and a few bucks for the larger gauge wiring and breaker, I'd like to be able to charge as fast as possible; 2) this likely won't be the only EV I'll own... the next one may have a larger charger and battery for which the difference in charging time will be more noticeable.

If anyone more knowledgeable has any advice to the contrary, please let us know.

 

[ultraturtle]

The SAE J1772 standard has the car and the EVSE talk back and forth for a bit to establish a maximum charge rate based on amperage. It uses Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) in increments to make that happen. See page 17 of http://www.park-charge.ch/documents/EV-infrastructure project.pdf:

Whether the marketing folks choose to simply use the SAE continuous rating of 30 amps, or the 32 amp IEC Omnicharge Rating (based on a formula that fudges up the continuous rating by the short-term ampacity rating), the 50% PWM signal negotiated for maximum i3 charge rate is exactly the same actual charge rate for either unit:

I apologize for this being a rather arcane way of stating that there is no difference between EVSEs advertised as 32 amp and 30 amp units. They will both charge the i3 at its maximum AC rate, and (at least as far as the i3 goes) there is no advantage to be gained by installing a higher capacity EVSE.

 

[SDCAi3]

HCS60 is a great choice as long as you have capacity for a large (100 ?) amp breaker in your box
if you have to spend huge $ to install the 60 , I would just install a HCS40

BTW almost all residential homes in the USA have 240/245 Volts, 120 per leg I think

its commercial places that use 208v and you get a slower charge on those.

FYI, the specs on the HCS-60 say it needs a 60A circuit with 60A breaker. You're right though, if you have to spend considerable amount more to install that 60A circuit instead of the 40A one required of the HCS-40 (i.e. if that would require a panel upgrade), that may factor into the decision. I'm installing solar, a new panel and a new garage sub-panel at the same time anyway, so the additional cost between a 60A and 40A circuit is minimal for me.

 

[ultraturtle]

I have the aeroviroment 7.2 kw 30a unit that they make called the RS . Wonder if it's 40% or 50% pwm.

It's the 50% PWM unit. Aerovironment simply chose to market the device using the USA standard of SAE 30 amp continuous, rather than the European IEC Omnicharge standard of 32 amps. It will facilitate charging at the maximum i3 AC charging power.

 

[SlamminSammy]

Do not get a Leviton charger. It does not work with the I3. We just brought ours home and the EVB32-5ML charger DOES NOT WORK. Took the car right back to the dealer, they said the software was up to date, it charged on their chargers and shrugged. I have emailed Leviton. Will see what happens. The charger worked with our Active E for two years. Really don't want to have to buy a new charger. Was told by the dealer that Bosch and Aeroenvironments definitely work with the I3
Good Luck.

 

[tallrussian]

Whether the marketing folks choose to simply use the SAE continuous rating of 30 amps, or the 32 amp IEC Omnicharge Rating (based on a formula that fudges up the continuous rating by the short-term ampacity rating), the 50% PWM signal negotiated for maximum i3 charge rate is exactly the same actual charge rate for either unit:

Ultraturtle said it the best, along the lines of what I heard from a ClipperCreek representative that I spoke with a few months ago. "32 Amp" is just a marketing gimmick due to a slight difference in European vs U.S. measurement standard. The actual current delivered to the car is the same.

BTW, the other thing the Clipper Creek rep told me is that the 120V portable EVSE that comes with the car in U.S. is also a Clipper Creek unit. He also confirmed that HCS-40 has been tested with i3 at the time of its development and is confirmed to work.

Needless to say, I bought and installed a Clipper Creek HCS-40 about 2 months ago. $590 + $19 for an excellent wall holder + $100 installation = total less than US$800 out of pocket, installed!

Now if I could only ever get the i3 Terra World BEV that ordered back in early Feb... They will build it at some point, I hope... I the meantime, I can enjoy looking at the HCS-40 in my garage, I guess BTW, HCS-40 comes with a 25-foot cord as standard, which is actually so long that it can reach almost anywhere in my 2-car garage... The EVSE itself is pretty inconspicuous and is nicely shaped to conveniently store the extra cable, if needed. The plug holster can be mounted anywhere in the garage and does not need to be next to the unit. Very nice design! I highly recommend HCS-40.

 

[SlamminSammy]

Total drag that we have a standard and yet still some cars don't work with some chargers

What does it do when you plug it into the car.?

It chatters and zaps and doesn't charge the car. Its as if its trying to make a solid connection but can't bridge the gap.
I reported the issue to Leviton on Saturday. They got back to me this morning, which was amazing, but then emailed me and asked me to "we have determined that we need the product(s) referenced in the quality concern in order for us to continue our evaluation. Please send sample(s) to the address below
So I have to uninstall my hard wired charger and send it back. If I'm going to unbolt it I might as well replace it with one I know will work.
Bummer.

 

[vmSeattle]

I made the decision to go with the Clipper Creek HCS-40. Had a discussion with my general contractor (I'm remodeling the garage while I'm getting the charger installed) and his electrician and wanted to report back on their comments:

1) The Clipper Creek HCS-40 is a 30A unit, but *requires* a 50A circuit be hooked up to it, not a 30A. This puzzled both the electrician and the contractor. Normally you want the circuit breaker to be close or slightly under the rated power output of a device. That way, if the device goes nuts or there's some weird power surge, the circuit breaker will trip before your house burns down. Called Clipper Creek and confirmed that, ya, they want a 50A breaker. Seems the HCS-40 tests load and resistance on the line (between the circuit breaker and the HCS unit) every 17min and is smart enough to shut itself down if there is a problem, thereby saving the circuit breaker any problems.

2) We went with the HCS-40P, which is the non-hardwired version. It's only a few bucks more and uses a standard clothes dryer plug. If needed, I can just unmount the charger, toss it in the back seat, and plug it into the clothes dryer electrical outlet at a friends house or elsewhere in case of zombie apocalypse

3) I had previously thought about putting in the HCS-60 as I might need higher rated charger a few years down the road (when my lease expires and I get a Tesla Model E *lol*) but there's a problem. The HCS-60 requires a 60A circuit, which is just too much load for my poor circuit breaker. Electrician ran load calculations and looks like I might have to upgrade the electrical service to my house. Yikes! I am not even going to ask what that would cost.

HCS-60 is out! HCS-40 is in! Ordered from Clipper Creek website. I could have swore I saw it on Amazon a few weeks ago, but not there now.

Lastly, Heads Up! The people at Clipper Creek said they are raising their prices in the June/July time frame. Apparently business is booming and they are having problems keeping units in stock.

 

[tallrussian]

1) The Clipper Creek HCS-40 is a 30A unit, but *requires* a 50A circuit be hooked up to it, not a 30A. This puzzled both the electrician and the contractor.

The requirement comes from NEC (North American National Electrical Code).

NEC requires the service to match the outlet. There is no 40 Amp plug spec in NEMA. So the plug-in versions of HCS-40 come with 50amp plugs. Now, since your outlet is 50amp, NEC requires the service to it to be 50 amp as well. Who knows - maybe a couple of years down the road you may decide to unplug your HCS-40, and the next person will want to plug their welder in...

I went with the hard-wired one, as my house was pre-wired for EV and the existing wiring was suitable for 40amp, but would have to be upgraded if I went with 50 or 60 amps. The hard wired version of HCS-40 only requires 40amp service. So it was an easy decision for me.

 

[WillBarrett]

Lastly, Heads Up! The people at Clipper Creek said they are raising their prices in the June/July time frame. Apparently business is booming and they are having problems keeping units in stock.

Hello Everyone, I work for ClipperCreek and just wanted to let you know that the statement above is partially incorrect. Sales have been booming with the increase of electric vehicles on the roadways, however we have strong supply channels and are not in any danger of running out of stock on any of our HCS products. We are also not planning any price increases.

Give us a call if you have any questions.

 

[jadnashuanh]

For those of you who have installed the Clipper Creek unit, assuming you've received your i3, how has it been working out for you?

I'm likely to end up buying one in the next week or two, but also, do not have a vehicle to plug it into! I've been waiting for my condo to respond to a request for exterior modification before jumping into it.

FWIW, hardwiring the HCS 40 only requires a 40A breaker and associated wire gauge. There are no 40A plugs, and if you choose to buy one with a plug on it, it would plug into a jack designed for 50A, and that's why you must wire it for ANYTHING that might plug into it, IOW, you could repurpose that jack for a dryer, or who knows what, so the wiring and CB must match the plug (similar idea to a 15A 120vac receptacle...it must be wired and protect the wiring for up to that max load, even if you're plugging in your phone charger).

 

[CompuMagic]

Do not get a Leviton charger. It does not work with the I3. We just brought ours home and the EVB32-5ML charger DOES NOT WORK. Took the car right back to the dealer, they said the software was up to date, it charged on their chargers and shrugged. I have emailed Leviton. Will see what happens. The charger worked with our Active E for two years. Really don't want to have to buy a new charger. Was told by the dealer that Bosch and Aeroenvironments definitely work with the I3
Good Luck.

I installed the Leviton EVB40 9.6kW charger (Amazon about 1k) and it works wonderful with my i3. This is obviously more than what the i3 needs but I got it for future potential needs. It is what the Toyota RAV4 EV officially used. No issues at all. I have a 200 amp panel and this charger uses a 50 amp breaker (but is a 40amp charger). I used the recommend AWG 8 wire. Installation: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjV1Bj56

 

[hoffert]

I'm using the Clipper Creek HCS 40 on my i3.

Works perfectly.

It seems to charge a little faster than commercial units I have tried in public places.