Chevy Bolt begins production “in just a few short months”

[websterize]

Before we go any further, let’s pause for a moment to savor just how richly ironic it is that General Motors is about to take the lead in the electric car race. … — http://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mary-barra/

It's a pretty safe bet that we're going to see some jaw-dropping deals on 2014 i3s coming off lease this summer/fall. Competition is a beautiful thing.

 

[S3RDP]

Clever design and 60 kwhs battery offers promising range and performance but battery pack weighs 960 lbs so I wouldn't expect it to be too nimble. But then again for $30k not bad value against competition.

 

[WoodlandHills]

The Bolt weighs 500lbs more than an i3, has 30 more hp, goes up to 200 miles, has front wheel drive, 4 real doors and costs at least $15k less than an i3. This is why I leased........

 

[Schnort]

I did the 'owners choice'. I'm really hoping that BMW won't play the game of 'your residual is market value, regardless of how we promised it would cover the balloon payment', leaving me paying for the difference if I decide to surrender the car.

 

[I33t]

The Bolt weighs 500lbs more than an i3, has 30 more hp, goes up to 200 miles, has front wheel drive, 4 real doors and costs at least $15k less than an i3. This is why I leased........

With about THREE times the battery capacity.

Be interesting to see the efficiency results. Sounds like it won't be chasing the i3 for efficiency, wonder if it will beat the Tesla?

Having a big battery is a plus for those with range anxiety, but it impacts efficiency because of the extra weight, and we have yet to see that the Bolt will be as well engineered.

 

[Schnort]

I bet it's got better freeway speed efficiency than the i3. It's definitely more aerodynamic

 

[i3an]

A few decades ago when I moved to the US I was flabbergasted that any sentient being would drive, let alone buy, a sloppy ugly primitive GM, and vowed "I'll never buy a GM"; and when GM killed and cubed the EV1 I renewed my vows.
A few years ago, after much anticipation, when I first saw images of the upcoming i3, my aesthetic senses rebelled and I vowed "I'll never buy that goofy thing."
Well, foot meet mouth, I am now the proud lessee of an Electronaut i3 — so might there be a Bolt in my future?
I may have to wear a paper bag over my head to avoid being seen driving a GM around SF, but hey, 200-mile BEV range for $30k in 2016 looks pretty good even before I've had a few drinks. We are a 3-beemer household, but when my i3 comes off lease late this year BMW is going to have to work pretty hard to keep me on the plantation when I can break the engagement and walk across the street and get a younger-model longer-legged Bolt for a few $k less. Boy, does that grass look greener. I wouldn't miss the love/hate awkward doors, the dreadful navigation system or the hood ornament; but I would miss the cool CFRP, the motorcycle ride, the leather seats, the turn-on-a-dime parking, the bells & whistles, the nerd-fests on the sidewalk. Ah well, life is a trade-off.

 

[I33t]

I bet it's got better freeway speed efficiency than the i3. It's definitely more aerodynamic

Sure, probably more aerodynamic, but there is more to resistance than just the shape, the frontal area is also important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1092373_aerodynamic-tesla-model-s-electric-car-wins-the-wind-tunnel-wars

The Cd figure alone doesn't tell the whole story, though.

Frontal area is equally important, and drag area--frontal area multiplied by the drag coefficient, even more so.

Here, the scores even out a little. The large, boxy Leaf has a 7.8-square-foot drag area, the largest of any vehicle in the test.

The relatively compact CLA is next up at 7.0 sq ft, the Volt hits 6.7, and both the Prius and the much larger Model S feature a drag area of just 6.2 square feet. The Insight, on account of its tiny 20.1 square-foot frontal area (over 5 sq-ft less than the Model S) has a wind-cheating drag area of just 6 square feet.

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=342958
Cd of i3 is 0.29
Frontal Area is 2.38m2
CdA = 0.69

Bolt: ??

 

[i3Alan]

I did the 'owners choice'. I'm really hoping that BMW won't play the game of 'your residual is market value, regardless of how we promised it would cover the balloon payment', leaving me paying for the difference if I decide to surrender the car.

Read your OC contract. The residual is FIXED if you decide to turn it in. BMW may, at their discretion, offer to lower your final buy-out price (effectively lowering the residual) to entice you to keep the car at the end of your OC term. The residual difference to market value (aside from car damages and mileage) is entirely their risk, whether it is a lease or an OC contract. If the residual is too high, then most will just turn in the car. If the residual is too low, then many will buy-out the car and either keep it, or trade it in for a higher value than the buy-out cost. Given that there is a big difference between wholesale (trade-in) value and retail, the dealer has quite a bit of room to mitigate this residual error risk.

 

[Schnort]

I sure hope so. I'm a little concerned about "(this is your estimate of the wholesale value of the Vehicle on the Balloon Payment due date)" and "at least $7500 less than the scheduled balloon payment" clauses when it states what my residual value is and how the sale option is calculated.

I fully expect the market value of my car to be $10-15k less than the residual they've signed up for. I just don't see a 2 year old base model i3 BEV w/20K miles on it being worth $28000 retail, much less wholesale, when the Bolt will be similarly equipped with double the mileage for just a few of $1000 more at full MSRP.

 

[user 2724]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a balloon payment is an agreed upon sum payable at the end of the LOAN with the risk being held by the borrower (you) not the lender (BMW or whoever) - if that the amount due (balloon amount) is actually less than the residual value. You own the car for the original agreed selling price less principal paid over the initial term. If the residual is lower at term end then the borrower would be expected to make up the difference and would be as they say underwater by this amount. Its not a lease which the lender in most cases would be responsible for any shortfall in residual value that could be negotiated later if it was lower.

DEFINITION of 'Balloon Loan'
A type of loan which does not fully amortize over its term. Since it is not fully amortized, a balloon payment is required at the end of the term to repay the remaining principal balance of the loan.

You usually can refinance the balloon amount with the original lender (BMW) over a new term with a new interest rate at the time the balloon payment is due, but the balloon amount cannot be negotiated. You signed the purchase agreement agreeing on this amount when you took out the car loan and drove the car off the lot.

 

[psquare]

Guys,

Hold your horses until you read the first real-world reviews of the Bolt. At the moment, it's all marketing. I'm sure it's going to be great, but let's not pretend no one on this forum hasn't learnt any lessons from BMW's range claims for the i3. Let's also wait what the final interior looks and feels like. As I said, I'm happy to be positively surprised - a 60 kWh battery can go a long way, but how much of that is useable?

As far as ownership goes, my daily/weekly range needs won't change. I always knew I'd keep this car for 4-5 years.

And another good thing: GM decided to use SAE Combo for rapid charging, which can only help i3 owners.

 

[Schnort]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a balloon payment is an agreed upon sum payable at the end of the LOAN with the risk being held by the borrower (you) not the lender (BMW or whoever) - if that the amount due (balloon amount) is actually less than the residual value. You own the car for the original agreed selling price less principal paid over the initial term. If the residual is lower at term end then the borrower would be expected to make up the difference and would be as they say underwater by this amount. Its not a lease which the lender in most cases would be responsible for any shortfall in residual value that could be negotiated later if it was lower.

DEFINITION of 'Balloon Loan'
A type of loan which does not fully amortize over its term. Since it is not fully amortized, a balloon payment is required at the end of the term to repay the remaining principal balance of the loan.

You usually can refinance the balloon amount with the original lender (BMW) over a new term with a new interest rate at the time the balloon payment is due, but the balloon amount cannot be negotiated. You signed the purchase agreement agreeing on this amount when you took out the car loan and drove the car off the lot.

Yes, though this was the 'owners choice' financing option offered by BMW. The selling point of which was that you could surrender the car after two years (plus $350, plus the $7500 federal rebate, plus mileage overage and excess wear and tear) and be free of the obligation(or at least that's how the salesman and finance officer sold it). I'll be extraordinarily disappointed with BMW if that isn't the case and they revise the value of the car down from the contract stated price to market value and leave me holding the bag, contrary to their oral terms of the agreement.

 

[cmj912]

Guys,

Hold your horses until you read the first real-world reviews of the Bolt. At the moment, it's all marketing. I'm sure it's going to be great, but let's not pretend no one on this forum hasn't learnt any lessons from BMW's range claims for the i3. Let's also wait what the final interior looks and feels like. As I said, I'm happy to be positively surprised - a 60 kWh battery can go a long way, but how much of that is useable?

As far as ownership goes, my daily/weekly range needs won't change. I always knew I'd keep this car for 4-5 years.

And another good thing: GM decided to use SAE Combo for rapid charging, which can only help i3 owners.

What he/she said

I pretty much expected that as soon as I leased my car I would all of a sudden be confronted with newer, bigger, better, faster, awesome-r etc.
The technology is advancing rapidly. Three days after GM's announcement, Ford will say "Hi Everyone, we're reintroducing the Escort and it's going to be called the E-scort and it is better...blah blah blah...".
I'm happy with my car. It is the first ever "premium luxury marque" I have had and, to be honest, if my time with the i3 is good I'll give them my money again.

Some of the car is the ownership experience. I have had cars from Honda, Toyota, Fiat-Chrysler, etc in the past few years and I can tell you the "I love you customer" experience can be WAAAAAAAYYYYY different. But you know that. Just me .02

 

[i3atl]

I did the 'owners choice'. I'm really hoping that BMW won't play the game of 'your residual is market value, regardless of how we promised it would cover the balloon payment', leaving me paying for the difference if I decide to surrender the car.

Your residual is in your BMWFS contract - aside from potential trade-in options, or if you wanted to keep the car, the market value is not relevant with the Owner's Choice plan. The turn-in option is just like a lease.

 

[i3atl]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a balloon payment is an agreed upon sum payable at the end of the LOAN with the risk being held by the borrower (you) not the lender (BMW or whoever) - if that the amount due (balloon amount) is actually less than the residual value. You own the car for the original agreed selling price less principal paid over the initial term. If the residual is lower at term end then the borrower would be expected to make up the difference and would be as they say underwater by this amount. Its not a lease which the lender in most cases would be responsible for any shortfall in residual value that could be negotiated later if it was lower.

DEFINITION of 'Balloon Loan'
A type of loan which does not fully amortize over its term. Since it is not fully amortized, a balloon payment is required at the end of the term to repay the remaining principal balance of the loan.

You usually can refinance the balloon amount with the original lender (BMW) over a new term with a new interest rate at the time the balloon payment is due, but the balloon amount cannot be negotiated. You signed the purchase agreement agreeing on this amount when you took out the car loan and drove the car off the lot.

You're correct when it comes to typical balloon loans, but not Owner's Choice, which is similar to a lease. Maybe this plan isn't offered in Canada?

 

[user 2724]

No OC in Canada, traditional balloon payment loans only.

 

[brorob]

When I was shopping around for an EV, the Nissan dealer told me that they offered customers a free battery pack upgrade (next version, about $5k) if they paid the residual amount for their LEAF at the end of their lease.

Womder if BMW will do something similar when the new longer range battery pack is available. Would make a lease end purchase more enticing.

 

[i3an]

Here are the specs that GM has posted on the upcoming Chevy Bolt:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/Jan/naias/chevy/0111-bolt-du.html

If GM is to be believed, compared to today's i3 the Bolt will have 2½ times the range for about $10,000 less; be longer (by 7", bad) and slightly narrower and higher (good); be faster to 60 mph (very good) but have a wider turning circle (bad). In the who-cares department it will have a much heavier battery, zero carbon-fiber and much less exotic light metals. It looks likely that slinky Tesla is about to be pipped at the post in the $30k/200-mile BEV sweepstakes by dowdy old GM. The real-world 2016 Volt is getting glowing reviews, and who knows, in the Bolt maybe the gals and guys running GM today just might beat low expectations and deliver something worth trading in a Tesla or a BMW for. Stay tuned.

 

[alohart]

In the who-cares department it will have a much heavier battery, zero carbon-fiber and much less exotic light metals.

I care! All three contribute to the Bolt's porkiness. At ~900 lb. heavier than an i3 BEV, it will not be as efficient or nimble. Without the i3's carbon fiber and aluminum, it will be subject to corrosion in salty, humid climates like ours. With its crude twist beam rear suspension, it will not handle as well as the i3. Its front wheel drive will increase its turning circle and front wheel tire wear, and will likely result in undesirable torque steer. These are reasons why I was willing to pay so much for an i3. But I understand why Chevrolet had to cut corners to keep costs down.